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Hello, curious Atheist here!

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Skeptic

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Hi everyone,

I am a former Christian, and now and Atheist. I'm really looking forward to having some interesting and respectful conversations and interacting with Christians.
Nice to meet you!
 
Hi everyone,

I am a former Christian, and now and Atheist. I'm really looking forward to having some interesting and respectful conversations and interacting with Christians.
Nice to meet you!

Hello welcome :).

I was once in your situation and God helped me come back to Him. God can surely help you come back to Him and I will try to clear your doubts.

Just remember this,
Doubts is not a sin: If your doubt is genuine and you have a desire to seek the truth, it is God who will help you find the truth, for He is the Truth. Reasoning is not a sin either as God welcomes reasoning (Isa 1:18). Every christian must also have a reason for the hope he has (1Pet 3:15). But, denying God to justifying their lusts and evil desires is a terrible sin.

Post your questions in the forums and I will do my best to help you.
 
Hello welcome :).

I was once in your situation and God helped me come back to Him. God can surely help you come back to Him and I will try to clear your doubts.

Just remember this,
Doubts is not a sin: If your doubt is genuine and you have a desire to seek the truth, it is God who will help you find the truth, for He is the Truth. Reasoning is not a sin either as God welcomes reasoning (Isa 1:18). Every christian must also have a reason for the hope he has (1Pet 3:15). But, denying God to justifying their lusts and evil desires is a terrible sin.

Post your questions in the forums and I will do my best to help you.

Thanks for the welcome!

And I'm sorry, but I don't have doubts, I don't believe in your God. And I'm glad you don't consider reasoning a sin, that's always a good thing.

Don't worry, I'm not denying any Gods, I just don't believe any exist :)
I have some lusts and desires, but they aren't really connected to any God or in spite of any of them.

Thanks for trying to help though, see you around the forums!
 
Hi skeptic. I am an ex-minister turned atheist. I have only been registered on this forum for a few days, so I'm fairly new as well. I'm kind of curious as to why I have been marked as 'non-christian' instead of 'registered member' though???:chin
 
Hi skeptic. I am an ex-minister turned atheist. I have only been registered on this forum for a few days, so I'm fairly new as well. I'm kind of curious as to why I have been marked as 'non-christian' instead of 'registered member' though???:chin

lol, I'm sure they're working on marking me as that as well ;)

It's probably just a precautionary measure they like to take to protect there members who don't want to interact with atheists at all. At least, that's my best guess as to why it would happen.

I was listening to a pod-cast recently about ministers who were still preaching when they in fact didn't believe a word of it. Were you ever in that position? Or did you leave the Church the moment you began having doubts?
 
lol, I'm sure they're working on marking me as that as well ;)

It's probably just a precautionary measure they like to take to protect there members who don't want to interact with atheists at all. At least, that's my best guess as to why it would happen.

It's cause we-all like to keep an eye on you squirrely types...cain't be too careful now can we.:grumpy

:lol Naw...really it's just because there are certain forums that only Christians can discuss in...like Talk and Advice and other venues that are for the non-Christians to ask questions...just makes the job of the moderator a bit easier.

You are indeed registered members with all the rights, privileges and responsibilities...keep an eye out for your decoder ring and be sure to drink your Ovaltine!
 
I was listening to a pod-cast recently about ministers who were still preaching when they in fact didn't believe a word of it. Were you ever in that position? Or did you leave the Church the moment you began having doubts?

John 5:38-39 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.

Bible really makes a lot of sense only when the Word of God abides in you and then you read it.

As I said, doubting is not a sin and if you genuinely search for truth, you will find it.

John 8:32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Most people become atheists because of the fact that science teaches evolution/big bang. The real problem is many don't investigate further to find the real truth.

You must remember what serpent said to Eve and understand how he will trick. What was the lie the serpent said?
  • You will not surely die (Gen 3:4) is a lie.
    [*]Your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil (Gen 3:4) is a truth. Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. (Gen 3:22)
    [*]
    Satan always mixes truth with lie.
Evolution: There is not a single evidence for macro-evolution. All proof/evidence provided for macro-evolution are in fact actually for micro-evolution. The problem is not many people will question them. - Just like the tv news which you see and believe, no matter what lie they show.
Big-Bang: The bang came from nothing?
 
the initial explosion didnt come from nothing. the big bang theory isnt attempt to explain how the entire universe came to be , but how the universe we have been observing came to be.

the size of all matter was thought to be the size of a grapefruit.a unknown force compressed it and then it expanded.

i dont buy that theory but lets at least state what it says correctly.
 
the initial explosion didnt come from nothing. the big bang theory isnt attempt to explain how the entire universe came to be , but how the universe we have been observing came to be.

the size of all matter was thought to be the size of a grapefruit.a unknown force compressed it and then it expanded.

i dont buy that theory but lets at least state what it says correctly.

To Skeptic:

It doesn't matter if it's a grape fruit or a single point. The whole theory is based on 'red shifts' of stars pref moving away. However, how can you compare it to our world and how accurate are they? To compare in real terms, measuring the diameter of the nearest star alphacentari which is just 4.3 light years away is like measuring 1 mm from 10 km. The nearest galaxy Andromeda is like 2.5 million light-years away. Measuring the diameter of a star in the nearest galaxy is like measuring 1 mm from a distance of 25 million km. Are you kidding me?

Next regarding evolution: (I am going to mix astronomy, biology and maths) The universe has a finite age around 13.7 billion years according to science. A human has 3 billion base pairs... so, lets start with bacteria which has only 160000 base pairs. Let's for a moment assume that random mutation is true. So, how much mutations must occur randomly and how long will it take for a 160000 base pair to be selected and form a bacteria?

Let me put in simple words, Each base pair is of any in (A,T,G,C for DNA) or (A,U,G,C for RNA). To form a bacteria, there has to be 160000 in exact sequence formed out of these 4 hydrogen bonds.
If you are supposed to from a 4 types (n), with a sequence length of 160000 (r) with order important and repetition allowed - It's called permutation - and the formula for it is n^r. So, for a bacteria to evolve according to maths there has to be sufficient mutation of this number which is 4^160000. Do you know what this number means?

Just 4^160 = 2.14 × 10^96. Do you know the estimated total number of electrons, protons and neutrons in the known universe is 10^80? The age of universe 13.7 billion years is 4.32 x 10^17 seconds.

Now do the math: If the base pair is assumed to be just 160, it would take the entire universe to have mutation on every single electron on universe for the entire age of the universe to produce a single bacteria cell - probably dead (as I can even give you a dead bacteria with same chemical composition and you can't bring it to life). However, in reality, the bacteria base pair is 160000 not 160 and human base pair is 3 billion. If evolution is true, permutation in maths is wrong. If permutation is right, then evolution is wrong. you decide...

Being rational is very correct. The problem is most people don't verify false scientific theories.
 
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If the case is that of Evolution/Big Bang believing then I can offer some insight that proves it wrong. In fact I can offer a 27 page essay neatly compiled. (Credit to my Pastor of course)
 
If the case is that of Evolution/Big Bang believing then I can offer some insight that proves it wrong. In fact I can offer a 27 page essay neatly compiled. (Credit to my Pastor of course)
do so via pm or in the science forum.

while that has been discussed here in this thread, its preferable not to turn this thread into a heavy science debate.
 
Just curious, what's the story?



Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

Well, long story short, I could never bring myself to truly believe what I was being taught. I became skeptical of the claims being made in my Church, by my pastor, and by others, and couldn't find any justifications for them nor the beliefs that necessarily came with them. I didn't see any reason to believe there was any god to believe in.
 
Well, long story short, I could never bring myself to truly believe what I was being taught. I became skeptical of the claims being made in my Church, by my pastor, and by others, and couldn't find any justifications for them nor the beliefs that necessarily came with them. I didn't see any reason to believe there was any god to believe in.


That's honest. "General," yet honest. Broad, yet (still) honest.


Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!
 
To Skeptic:

It doesn't matter if it's a grape fruit or a single point. The whole theory is based on 'red shifts' of stars pref moving away.

No it isn't, the big bang is based on much more than that. The red shifts of stars are even necessarily relevant as some are blue shifted as well. I encourage you to read a little about some of the primary lines of evidence for the big bang (which are numerous), which includes the prediction of the CMB. This site may help you:

Evidence for the Big Bang




However, how can you compare it to our world and how accurate are they? To compare in real terms, measuring the diameter of the nearest star alphacentari which is just 4.3 light years away is like measuring 1 mm from 10 km. The nearest galaxy Andromeda is like 2.5 million light-years away. Measuring the diameter of a star in the nearest galaxy is like measuring 1 mm from a distance of 25 million km. Are you kidding me?

I'm confused, can you please explain what you're saying here a bit more clearly for me? I'm having trouble figuring out what it is you're trying to convey and what the point is.


Next regarding evolution: (I am going to mix astronomy, biology and maths) The universe has a finite age around 13.7 billion years according to science. A human has 3 billion base pairs... so, lets start with bacteria which has only 160000 base pairs. Let's for a moment assume that random mutation is true. So, how much mutations must occur randomly and how long will it take for a 160000 base pair to be selected and form a bacteria?

These creationist arguments always misrepresent or misunderstand how evolution works. You're ignoring the most important force within evolution; natural selection. Natural selection is certainly not random by any stretch. Natural selection chooses the combinations that work best and allow the next generation to try again.

Your math from this point of your argument on is considerably wrong, and I'll tell you why.



Let me put in simple words, Each base pair is of any in (A,T,G,C for DNA) or (A,U,G,C for RNA). To form a bacteria, there has to be 160000 in exact sequence formed out of these 4 hydrogen bonds.
If you are supposed to from a 4 types (n), with a sequence length of 160000 (r) with order important and repetition allowed - It's called permutation - and the formula for it is n^r. So, for a bacteria to evolve according to maths there has to be sufficient mutation of this number which is 4^160000. Do you know what this number means?

Firstly, as I said above, your math is wrong here, thus giving you a large number to compare to other large numbers in an attempt to make it seem too improbable, thus God must have done it. That in and of itself is flawed thinking, but lets take a look at this.

Going off of your example for a minute, 4^160000 would indicate you multiply 4 by itself 160,000 times. Why in the world would you be doing that?

Evolution has taken place over billions of years (~4 billion) and mutations don't work precisely as you think they do or at least how you're alluding to them. For instance a large portion of a genome of an organism can be duplicated due to an error. You aren't simply adding one base at a time and hoping it turns out right. Also, as I said above you've disregarded the most important force in evolution being natural selection.

But lets entertain this and consider an example. Let's start at 0 bases with the goal being 160,000, and only add one base at a time. Let's ignore what would be statistically predicted if we're just choosing random bases and say it takes 5,000 years to get just one base right (were only assuming this for this simulation, it would actually only take around 4 years on average).

So that's 160,000*5,000 = 8*10^8 = 800,000,000
Only 800,000,000 million years when we have around ~4 billion to work with here.



Just 4^160 = 2.14 × 10^96. Do you know the estimated total number of electrons, protons and neutrons in the known universe is 10^80?

This is just flat out wrong by an extremely large factor. Estimates vary from paper to paper, but the number of hydrogen atoms in our observable universe are around 10^82 by most results. Which actually ignores many possible atom sources such as intergalactic gas.

But more importantly, as I've alluded to with the two above bolds these estimates are of

A) The observable universe, what we currently know of and can observe and make estimations of.
and
B) Atoms not protons, neutrons, and elections, which I'm sure you're aware are the constituents of an atom. Your calculation has not only disregarded multiplying your result by 3 to account for this (protons, neutrons, and electrons) but also ignores isotopes of hydrogen (deuterium and tritium) as well as every other type of atom which all have wildly varying values of protons, neutrons, and electrons, such as carbon, neon, iron, helium and so on.


The age of universe 13.7 billion years is 4.32 x 10^17 seconds.

Being rational is very correct. The problem is most people don't verify false scientific theories.

There wasn't anything rational about this post. Even though I responded to it fully, the fact of the matter is that the entire thing was an argument from ignorance, meaning, that if it seems highly unlikely or if you don't understand how it could have happened then the conclusion must have therefore been god, or that the unlikeliness of it happening adds credibility to the "God did it" claim. It doesn't. This is a logical fallacy. I realize its a popular creationst argument to try to throw out the biggest numbers possible based upon wrong calculations and then try to trot them out to those who don't understand how those numbers could have been come to or what exactly they mean, thus convincing them that God must have done it, and its disappointing to see this kind of thought promoted.
 
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That's honest. "General," yet honest. Broad, yet (still) honest.


Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!


Is there a certain part you'd like me to expand upon? Just ask away, I'd be happy to tell.
 
uh if skeptic and felix is up to that can be continued in the science forum theres a peer reviewed statement that challenges evolution that states that all the time in universe wouldnt allow that level of change.

i posted that study in the science forum.it had to do with cellular communication links or such like.
 
Is there a certain part you'd like me to expand upon? Just ask away, I'd be happy to tell.

Just curious that's all being that I'm not familiar with you or your writings as of yet.

You identified in your OP that you are a former Christian and then rejected its' truths.

Perhaps you could start by sharing when it all began, when you knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that you connected with Christ; before, and aside from the doubts that came later when you made the decision to disconnect.


Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!
 
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