Hello, fellow humans.

[electricaluser]

I think you fail to realize that most atheists have tried, to no avail, to look for gods. We've read the Bibles, Qu'rans, and some even the Book of Mormon.

There's nothing in my life so far that is miraculous, and cannot be explained by chance or nature.

I know you don't mean it, but by suggesting I "open up" to this god, you're assuming I am close minded, that I hate your belief and am just blind.

I used to believe in a god, and when I realized I could not prove that there was such a thing outside of my mind or the words on a page, I fessed up dropped the charades.

You will find this offensive, because to you, the idea of your god is central, there's nothing that can convince you otherwise. For all I know, you'll think I'm sent by satan or your god to test your faith.

So, why is it that god seems to have chosen you guys to show himself to, while 5 billion people from other religions (and some atheists) never see the god you refer to?

The scriptures are written in a way that protect them (themselves), from people who might have ideas differing from it. Like 2 John 1:10-11.

You can't prove God by looking outside, he's not out there, his in there. Take the journey within and you will find him, look at what and who you really are and you'll see life clear as a bell.

 

[Defiance]

It feels like you didn't read my post.

I've tried. Multiple times. It never worked.

So that's why I ask, why you guys, and not 5 billion others. What does does the Bible say about this act of god?

 

[Free]

It feels like you didn't read my post.

I've tried. Multiple times. It never worked.

So that's why I ask, why you guys, and not 5 billion others. What does does the Bible say about this act of god?

How do you know that? On what basis can you make that claim? Just because people have different beliefs and follow different religions does not mean that God has not revealed himself to them. Just like you, they may have just rejected his revelation. And, as I have stated before, many Muslims become Christians because Jesus appeared to them in a dream or vision.

 

[Defiance]

Free,

Does that mean every person who is not Christian has rejected a revelation from your god?

Seeking clarification.

Also, sure, Muslims convert to Christianity. But, why don't you address that Christians also deconvert to atheism, and convert to other religions?

No true scottsman?

 

[Eugene]

Free,

Does that mean every person who is not Christian has rejected a revelation from your god?

Seeking clarification.

Dear Defiance, Is your continued denial to capitalize God's name on a Christian forum for purpose? I do overlook accidental omissions by some, but common courtesy would justify that form of grammar whether you believe God to be Who we do or not.

To address your question, I quote the following scripture.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 

[Free]

Free,

Does that mean every person who is not Christian has rejected a revelation from your god?

Seeking clarification.

No, it does not mean that every person who is not a Christian has rejected revelation from God. But many who do reject Christ have heard of him or read the Bible.

Also, sure, Muslims convert to Christianity. But, why don't you address that Christians also deconvert to atheism, and convert to other religions?

No true scottsman?

I only addressed Muslim conversion as an example to refute your argument. You are arguing that God hasn't shown himself to 5 billion other people and I was simply showing that that claim is without merit, unless you have support for such a claim. To save you time, I suggest that there simply is no rational support for such a claim--there is absolutely no way of knowing whether or not God has revealed himself to every single human on earth.

Of course people convert from one belief system to another all the time, including Christians. I'm not sure what you want me to address there.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I'm an atheist.

I came here primarily to ask questions about Christianity itself, and not to promote and pull people into atheism like a vacuum cleaner. I have read the rules, and will do my best not to infringe them. Regardless, I do have questions that some may think of as common knowledge or offensive because it questions their core values. Rest assured, I come in peace, to acquire knowledge, or clarification on a biblical passage/story.
I look forward to discussions.

Hola Defiance,
As an Atheist until '66 and only being a Christian since 1/1/'91 I look forward to conversing.

 

[Rob Cuse]

I think you fail to realize that most atheists have tried, to no avail, to look for gods. We've read the Bibles, Qu'rans, and some even the Book of Mormon.

There's nothing in my life so far that is miraculous, and cannot be explained by chance or nature.

I know you don't mean it, but by suggesting I "open up" to this god, you're assuming I am close minded, that I hate your belief and am just blind.

I used to believe in a god, and when I realized I could not prove that there was such a thing outside of my mind or the words on a page, I fessed up dropped the charades.

You will find this offensive, because to you, the idea of your god is central, there's nothing that can convince you otherwise. For all I know, you'll think I'm sent by satan or your god to test your faith.

So, why is it that god seems to have chosen you guys to show himself to, while 5 billion people from other religions (and some atheists) never see the god you refer to?

The scriptures are written in a way that protect them (themselves), from people who might have ideas differing from it. Like 2 John 1:10-11.

Hello again Defiance. I read your reply and have a couple things to say if you permit me to do so. First, i appreciate your honesty. No matter which side of the road we stand, it's imperative that we are honest. Second, please forgive me if I sounded judgmental. I do not think you are closed minded. I am not the judge of anyone. God is the judge and will judge. We all have choice or perhaps as most would say free will. We get to choose what we believe. However, with those choices comes the consequences, whether good or bad. God does not need an attorney to define Him or defend Him. That may or may not make much sense but it is our duty to show love to all mankind. Whether they believe or not, whether they love God or hate Him. If I had to guess, I'd say you have been thru some extremely difficult times and in your on way looked for God and looked for a specific action from Him. I've been there. I have not always been a believing in God person. But anyways I am here as well as others to continue to show you love no matter the circumstance.

 

[electricaluser]

You can only see God depending on how you see life, you wont see God if you make life into a man, animal, image or anything else that's created by life.

You need to see life as life, then you will see God.

 

[KevinK]

Hmm. But look at it this way: Jesus never really died. He is god, correct? Gods are (characterised as) immortal; they know not death. He just turned into his other god form. What is the sacrifice in that? He is being crucified for a few days, only to be reigned king of all heavens soon after. It seems he sacrificed nothing.

Hello Defiance. You could make the same statement about human beings. God created us with souls just as immortal as His. We experience a physical death that God would not know except that He chose to become human and die as all humans do. On the other side, we continue to exist in another form, our true eternal form, whatever that might be.

Sorry, I don't know the answers to your other questions. I myself don't understand why Jesus dying served to liberate man from his sin. My lack of understanding in this regard does not affect my belief that it does, however. I fully believe that someday I will understand it all, but for the moment all I have is faith. I'm good with that.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Free,

Does that mean every person who is not Christian has rejected a revelation from your god?

Seeking clarification.

Also, sure, Muslims convert to Christianity. But, why don't you address that Christians also deconvert to atheism, and convert to other religions?

No true scottsman?

I'm not Free, of course, but yes is the short but sweet answer. The default position is denial of God and that denial, active or passive, is an acute denial of God's right to control your life. About 98% of the people on the Church roles also fall into this group and will exist in Eternity, continually suffering the complete rejection of God because they passively or they actively chose that end.

 

[The_Epsicle]

It seems to me from some of your posts that you are confused about our belief in the Triune God(aka: the Trinity or "three in one"). I won't lie to you, most Christians are confused by this and there are no analogies to describe it. I'll leave you with the two best explanations I've ever seen, the first is the Athanasian Creed found on this website: http://bookofconcord.org/creeds.php

Note: The word "catholic" in the Athanasian Creed refers to the universal Church and not the current Roman Catholic Church

The second is a video created by a Lutheran Pastor

I think you fail to realize that most atheists have tried, to no avail, to look for gods. We've read the Bibles, Qu'rans, and some even the Book of Mormon.

"Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened." - Matthew 7:7-8 ESV

I once had an atheist friend of mine tell me "I'm sure if you read the Bible without looking for a god, then you won't find him there." I responded with "I think you're absolutely right.", if you don't want to find Him then you won't find Him. Not saying you haven't looked hard, I don't know you or your intentions, I would recommend you find a Pastor in your area who is willing to talk to you about these things, as helpful as total strangers on a web forum can be nothing beats someone who's spent years shepherding a church and can read the Bible(even slightly) in it's original language.

There's nothing in my life so far that is miraculous, and cannot be explained by chance or nature.

What about your life itself? Or perhaps the ground beneath your feet? Or what about the blueness of the sky? I know you will want to point to the big bang theory and the theory of evolution to address these issues but there are so many holes in both of those theories(without getting into them here) to warrant an incredible amount of doubt. Regardless what you believe regarding the creation of the universe you will always be lacking an outside force acting to set these events in motion that eventually lead to your creation, unless of course you believe in a god. That isn't to say that I believe in God because of a lack of evidence, I believe in God because it is the most logical conclusion I can come to from looking at the evidence I've seen.

 

[Pizza]

I come to this thread late, and have not read it, just am responding to the below quote - I may restate something others have already said - and I may even contradict others.

I think you fail to realize that most atheists have tried, to no avail, to look for gods. We've read the Bibles, Qu'rans, and some even the Book of Mormon.

I think that is your problem. I NEVER went looking for Him. Seems like he found me. I remember being a very little boy when a "witness' would come to the door. My dad would tell 'em to get lost; and once they left a 'tract' and my dad kinda laughed at the idea of "Jesus" being there to love him (or anyone). Oddly, I remember thinking, "But maybe Jesus IS real...." That day was profound to me - I often looked up in the sky and wondered, as a little boy, if God was real.

I remember thinking that if God was real, then life was no fun, 'cause that means that God makes engines run, and wind blow and the sun shine - and that nothing is "natural"; that everything is guided by His hand. Kinda odd theology, but I was unchurched and maybe 7 years old.

There's nothing in my life so far that is miraculous, and cannot be explained by chance or nature.

I could also explain anything - usually, my explanations were ignorant and wrong - like my assessment above that God made engines run, not REALLY gasoline. (Again this came from a childish view that if God existed, He ran EVERYTHING, even our lawn mower engine).

I know you don't mean it, but by suggesting I "open up" to this god, you're assuming I am close minded, that I hate your belief and am just blind.

Maybe not. We all know how hard it can be to believe in God! Take a look at the world around you, does this look like the work of a god: Abortion? Child murder and rape? Killing in the name of a god or religion? MANY of us were ardent unbelievers at one time.

I used to believe in a god, and when I realized I could not prove that there was such a thing outside of my mind or the words on a page, I fessed up dropped the charades.

I think that you gave up too early. I also think that you went about it the wrong way - don't try to "prove" Him. Simply reach out to Him.

You will find this offensive, because to you, the idea of your god is central, there's nothing that can convince you otherwise. For all I know, you'll think I'm sent by satan or your god to test your faith.

Its not offensive to me. I can't PROVE that God exists, so therefore I can't get upset at someone who does not believe.

So, why is it that god seems to have chosen you guys to show himself to, while 5 billion people from other religions (and some atheists) never see the god you refer to?

I truly don't have an answer for that one. But I also would say that He didn't show Himself to me - not for the first 15 years I followed and believed in Him. It was only at a time where I sinned greatly and deliberately, and then felt really bad, that He spoke to my (almost but not quite audibly).

I think you are destined to meet Him, and I mean that I think you will "meet Him" before you die and in a time and place where you will come to know Him. I read that in your posts, don't know exactly why I think it, but I am almost sure of it. Can't put my finger on it, but I think He is working on you. Is there any chance that some elderly relative (or very young one) is praying for you?

My friend Tom in Michigan was in your place for a LONG time, openly hostile to people of faith, could not stand to listen to his mother preach...... but she and her lady friends at a church up there prayed for him for well over 30 years. Then, it happened one day...

The scriptures are written in a way that protect them (themselves), from people who might have ideas differing from it. Like 2 John 1:10-11.

This post is long enough, but I've never read those verses to mean THAT! I always took it as a warning to not follow twisted doctrine, like with Jim Jones in the 1970's.

 

[Rick W]

People ask, why does God not speak to me? Why does He not show himself?
He does.
I hear God speaking to me quite often actually. I hear Him in what the pastor testifies, what my neighbor declares of his faith and anyone quoting His Word. He shows himself in charity, unselfish acts of kindness and love/affection shown from one living thing to another.
The Bible is not a rule book. And I'm quite sure all here have heard that. It's not meant to condemn though I suppose there are those who wrongly and possibly unwittingly embrace the practice. We are condemned already. What's the point?
The Bible is the story of God's pursuit of the hearts of men.
Through His Word He speaks and through Jesus Christ he shows himself. For what did Christ say? What was commanded from the Father. And what did the people see? The Godly acts of a man without sin.
Did the people listen? Did the people see?

 

[Edward]

...
But there is only one god. If not another form, then how can there be "one" god yet three distinct members of the trinity?

I'll take a stab at this one. Let's look at some scripture.
John 20:17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God./(KJV)

Easy. Think of a family. Jesus Himself called the Father His God. Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. The Father is God, and yet, at the same time, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are also God in that they are family. With as much power and authority as the Father wills to give to them, which apparently is a lot. Just as on earth, if one were to say, attack your son or daughter, would you not take it as an attack on the entire family, an attack on you? Family can have multiple members, and yet be one. Why not with God's family. There's 3 members of the family, and one Godhead.

...But only one of them is a god? Or do you call this pantheon a "god"?
You said Jesus is 100% god, correct? There is only one god.

Jesus is 100% God inasmuch as He has been given this authority and power to do as He wills. I believe that spiritual beings can become one spirit, so here you have one God, yet three personalities within. When Jesus came to earth to be mankinds savior, He stepped down from His divinity and became 100% man. He was crucified and did die, just like man dies, and he died spiritually also to atone for our sins and be a legitimate sacrifice. Then He rose from the dead and regained His divinity, and ascended back unto His Father.

So there's two aspects of it. A family aspect and a spiritual aspect (which we know little about but apparently, spirits can join and become one. The bible speaks of this; we are saved, are in Christ and Christ in us.

The answers are all in scripture and you would do well to read the Word of God every day. I hope this makes sense to you...

 

[Sparkey]

If not polytheism, this concept is kind of confusing and self contradictory.

You say that it's, "kind of confusing," meaning that you secretly believe that it isn't confusing and that you think you know better, right? But please, try not to think that I'm trying to be hyper-crit here, I have very little information to go on and I'm trying to get to know you, is why.

Feel free to tell us what you really think.

Did Jesus sacrifice himself to God?

You say Jesus is god. If that is true, then he sacrificed himself to himself?

Hmm.

That's a good question. Knowing that Jesus is God is something that is revealed over time. Just look at "Thomas the Confirmer". I think little Timmy would like my name for him better than that "Thomas the Doubter" designation he is so well known for. But Not even He (and He's one of the Saved mentioned by name in the Bible) but not even he understood nor grasped that truth until after the ascension and after he put his fingers in the wound (or should I say his finger in the wounds? Sometimes things as simple as plurals in English can stumble me) .... But the point is that he had to confirm to his own satisfaction and that was okay, right? So it's okay if you don't yet have the FULL REVELATION OF GOD yet. Nobody does. Not even our friend Free -->Not even one single solitary person (except that man, named Jesus, the son of the carpenter and Son of the Most High God(!). He's the only one who sees His Father (correctly). But our time is coming. We get to see Him even as we are seen. I personally believe that the Bride company (whatever that is) will do this in the sight of others, but that's a pearl we can't dare trample around with... (or so I hope).

Also notice Peter. He really struggle with the concept too. He was asked three times and we can almost hear his vexation with his Savior when he tried to honestly answer, Who do you say I am? -- and Jesus asked, "Peter? Do you love me?" also. And of course he didn't use English so I can't quote directly and also, Peter had no clue that Jesus was preparing him for the real battle that was to come (with Satan himself, no less). But He too confessed, "My Lord -and- my God," or the equivalent to and about Jesus. And that too was not brought out of him on first meeting. It may have been love at first sight but it takes time to communication stuffs. Peter knew Jesus for three years before he could even conceive of (let that idea be born in his inner parts) ... before he could conceive of ... that marvelous truth.

Jesus develops our adoration for us. It takes time to do that, it's not dropped in like a nutshow, or even in a nutshell... and that's His job anyway, not mine and it is by His Spirit, the Spirit of Christ and by the very mind of Christ in us that our hearts hear Him and swell in joy and love...

So again, it's okay if some here do not (yet) share in that particular glory and understanding. Just trust in his NAME is enough. Who cares why that works. It does.

If a man could be made with free will, with temptation and emotion, and not commit sin, what happened when god made us?

It seems he did not make us to be sinless.

You sure do have some interesting thoughts. It's your conclusions that are not being straight-lined from point 'A' to point 'B'. They are convoluted. That's okay too. Many of mine are messed up beyond tracing even if I had that kind of patience. I like saying that I'm a non-linear thinker. Maybe you know what I mean? But when you observe, "God could have made man with free will, but He didn't," (my paraphrase of what you said, the quote marks are a lie) I am here to ask if you are doing that on purpose because it's fun to show off how smart you are by confounding Christians (so called) or is there a legitimate question about the difference between making man from dust and the immaculate conception (can you conceive of that one?!? You can? Good. Water that thought, and allow God to cultivate it) of that man known as Jesus whose very NAME is, and has always been, and will always be, elevated beyond all others?

Did you know [name omitted - deleted by Sparrow] that there are two set of laws, delivered from two different mountains. Why are you always called back to Egypt. Haven't you been called to the mountains of the North?