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Hi I am "not a Christian"

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#1
Hello everyone,

My name is Sandra. My profile says I am not a Christian. That's because I was forced to check either Yes or No:lol. Let me explain. I have come to believe in Christian Universal Reconciliation, so according to the definition in this site, I am not a Christian. I'm not here to promote this belief - I'm just explaining where I'm at. I also say I am not a Christian because the path of my life has not been that of a true disciple of Christ, despite a background of Christian upbringing and knowledge of the Bible. I do not wish to promote that (referring to my failings) either. I believe the Holy Scriptures is God's perfect Word and everyone should practice what it teaches. However, I fall terribly short of that goal - so much so that I do not dare call myself a disciple of Jesus. I am not worthy of that name. There is a book out called, "I am not a fan." (link: http://www.notafan.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=50&Itemid=22 - I am not trying to sell the book, just trying to give the reference). Basically it asks, "Are you a disciple of Jesus, or just a fan?" I admit, I am merely a fan.

On to the reason I am here on this site: I was looking for somewhere to discuss the issue of homosexuality. It does not pertain to me personally, but for some reason I have a "burden", as some might say, regarding this issue. I was going to go to Crosswalk.com's forums, as I have in the past, only to discover that they no longer exist as they used to. Now their forums link just sends you to a facebook page. So, I did a search for Christian forums and found this site. (Don't worry - I don't wish to promote homosexuality either.) So here I am. I hope to do more than just discuss homosexuality here. I hope to find friends and share.

I'm looking forward to getting to know some of you all, and having fruitful discussions!

Thank you for reading my intro.
 

Mike

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#2
Welcome to CFnet! :wave

You made a few important points here I'd like to respond to.

It is critical that a distinction be made in our "Christian" status. As you say, this is a status against our SoF; not against you as a believer. It's a way of saying whether someone agrees with our SoF which is derived from fundamental orthodox Christianity. We are not saying who is/isn't a believer in the eyes of God or who will/won't have salvation. We need a way of determining who is and isn't with us on these basic tenets of our faith.

Universal Reconciliation is one of those doctrines that goes against the foundation of our Statement of Faith, therefore as you said, cannot be discussed/promoted.

As far as discussions on homosexuality, please note the temporary hold on all new threads and discussions on this topic - http://www.christianforums.net/announcement.php?f=15&a=17 You just happened to join as we're recovering from a period when this subject was overwhelming our board. :sad

Other than opening new threads on homosexuality and promoting Universal Reconciliation as a viable doctrine, have at it!
 
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#3
Welcome to CFnet! :wave

You made a few important points here I'd like to respond to.

It is critical that a distinction be made in our "Christian" status. As you say, this is a status against our SoF; not against you as a believer. It's a way of saying whether someone agrees with our SoF which is derived from fundamental orthodox Christianity. We are not saying who is/isn't a believer in the eyes of God or who will/won't have salvation. We need a way of determining who is and isn't with us on these basic tenets of our faith.

Universal Reconciliation is one of those doctrines that goes against the foundation of our Statement of Faith, therefore as you said, cannot be discussed/promoted.
Yes, I understand. Thank you for your response to my thread!



As far as discussions on homosexuality, please note the temporary hold on all new threads and discussions on this topic - http://www.christianforums.net/announcement.php?f=15&a=17 You just happened to join as we're recovering from a period when this subject was overwhelming our board. :sad

Other than opening new threads on homosexuality and promoting Universal Reconciliation as a viable doctrine, have at it!
Yes, I noticed that! I did spend time reading one of the existing threads last night...there's a lot of post to go through! My facebook page was being overwhelmed by comments on homosexuality and I was looking for some advice on how to respond to them! I will keep looking for answers!
 
Joined
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#4
Welcome to CF.net :wave

You seem not to know the difference between a Christian and a born-again;) :lol
They could mean the same, there may be differences in meaning tho. Usage!!! E.g: not every Christian is a born-again (if you believe and not obey) and all born-again are Christians - (judging from you OP)

From your OP you are a Christian but not yet a Born-again. That should just do;)

You didn't tell us your hobby. Do you like pests or pets:biggrinunno :lol

would you have a dinosaur as a pet?;) great idea.

Good people choose soccer - not American Football

:salute
 
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StoveBolts

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#5
Welcome to Christian Forums.

As a long time member, I recall when Universalism was banned from this site. I would go one step further to say that most of us that argued against UR never viewed our UR Brothers and Sisters as anything less.

What caused the eventual ban on the subject was because of the strife it caused on this site. There were topics that drifted well into the hundreds of pages and for awhile it was like it didn't matter what forum you were in, or what the topic was, the fight between eternal hell and UR eventually came up.

Simply put, it wasn't healthy for the site as a whole. It created a lot of strife etc.

You can say the same thing about Catholics. At one time we had a very healthy Catholic membership, but again, it all turned ugly.

By the way, just as many hard core eternal tormentors were banned from this site as UR members just like the hard core anti catholic's vs. the anti protestant's. So don't feel like UR was being targeted as solely the outcasts and again, don't feel like your a second hand citizen. Just know what's taboo while in our house and share, grow and be amongst your brothers and sisters.
 
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#7
Welcome to Christian Forums.

As a long time member, I recall when Universalism was banned from this site. I would go one step further to say that most of us that argued against UR never viewed our UR Brothers and Sisters as anything less.

What caused the eventual ban on the subject was because of the strife it caused on this site. There were topics that drifted well into the hundreds of pages and for awhile it was like it didn't matter what forum you were in, or what the topic was, the fight between eternal hell and UR eventually came up.

Simply put, it wasn't healthy for the site as a whole. It created a lot of strife etc.

You can say the same thing about Catholics. At one time we had a very healthy Catholic membership, but again, it all turned ugly.

By the way, just as many hard core eternal tormentors were banned from this site as UR members just like the hard core anti catholic's vs. the anti protestant's. So don't feel like UR was being targeted as solely the outcasts and again, don't feel like your a second hand citizen. Just know what's taboo while in our house and share, grow and be amongst your brothers and sisters.
Thank you, StoveBolts. I appreciate your encouragement and your explanation. :)
 
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#8
Welcome to CF.net :wave

You seem not to know the difference between a Christian and a born-again;) :lol
They could mean the same, there may be differences in meaning tho. Usage!!! E.g: not every Christian is a born-again (if you believe and not obey) and all born-again are Christians - (judging from you OP)

From your OP you are a Christian but not yet a Born-again. That should just do;)

You didn't tell us your hobby. Do you like pests or pets:biggrinunno :lol

would you have a dinosaur as a pet?;) great idea.

Good people choose soccer - not American Football

:salute
Hi Classick :)

I suppose your summary of my spiritual position will do, except that there are so many conflicting definitions of "christian" that the word has become almost useless to me.

Am I supposed to post my hobbies here?

Ok lately my only hobby has been gardening...unless I should count less legitimate "hobbies" like watching YouTube videos, playing solitaire, and face booking, which seem to take up an inordinate amount of my time :nono2

I also have three children, who take up a lot of my time, but don't get as much of my attention as they should. Same goes for my hubby - he also doesn't get enough attention from me! (by the way, he is an atheist, FYI)
 
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#11
Hi Geoff's girl (?),

You mention a few interesting things straight up. On Universal Reconciliation, have you read the 2nd century book, The Shepherd of Hermas? It is a great book - it is included in the earliest canons of the bible. Hermas presents the idea of universal reconciliation within Gods plan. I am a big "fan" of the earliest teachings from the 2nd and 3rd century fathers.

BTW, "I'm not a fan" looks great. I feel the same as this; I call the church a "club" rather than a stadium. Even those who appear "committed" end up being those who emphasis the "club rules" more so. Being a "follower" is another thing.

I hope you are blessed here.

Tri
 
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#12
Hi Geoff's girl (?),

You mention a few interesting things straight up. On Universal Reconciliation, have you read the 2nd century book, The Shepherd of Hermas? It is a great book - it is included in the earliest canons of the bible. Hermas presents the idea of universal reconciliation within Gods plan. I am a big "fan" of the earliest teachings from the 2nd and 3rd century fathers.

BTW, "I'm not a fan" looks great. I feel the same as this; I call the church a "club" rather than a stadium. Even those who appear "committed" end up being those who emphasis the "club rules" more so. Being a "follower" is another thing.

I hope you are blessed here.

Tri
Thanks for the reply, Tri

I hope against hope that God will not abandon me even though I am merely a "fan." I hope to eventually become a participant in the kindgdom of heaven, only because that's what Jesus wants. I know that what I'm saying probably doesn't make sense but there is a reason for everything I say.

Anyway, it's "Gef's girl", in case you wanted to know :)

~Sandra
 
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#13
I hope against hope that God will not abandon me even though I am merely a "fan." I hope to eventually become a participant in the kindgdom of heaven, only because that's what Jesus wants.
You at least have the right attitude. Why be a fan? A fan is not enough; but it is a start. You cannot be a follower without starting as a fan. Judas was a forced conversion and look where it got him. Eventually our desire for God outstrips the desire for this world. It does not happen on its own; but sometimes God teaches this to us through the school of hard knocks. Other times we amend our false allegiances because we are finally ready to submit. It ain't easy!

Tri
 
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#14
You at least have the right attitude. Why be a fan? A fan is not enough; but it is a start. You cannot be a follower without starting as a fan. Judas was a forced conversion and look where it got him. Eventually our desire for God outstrips the desire for this world. It does not happen on its own; but sometimes God teaches this to us through the school of hard knocks. Other times we amend our false allegiances because we are finally ready to submit. It ain't easy!

Tri
I'm just being honest.
 
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#16
You at least have the right attitude. Why be a fan? A fan is not enough; but it is a start. You cannot be a follower without starting as a fan. Judas was a forced conversion and look where it got him. Eventually our desire for God outstrips the desire for this world. It does not happen on its own; but sometimes God teaches this to us through the school of hard knocks. Other times we amend our false allegiances because we are finally ready to submit. It ain't easy!

Tri
Just wondering...on what basis do you say that Judas was a forced conversion?
 
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#17
Just wondering...on what basis do you say that Judas was a forced conversion?
I mean this in a very general sense. He was a believer; yet not a true follower. He believed, yet Jesus knew he was the devil.

"Jesus replied, “Didn’t I choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is the devil?†Now he said this about Judas son of Simon Iscariot, for Judas, one of the twelve, was going to betray him." (John 6:70, 71)

Judas is a "type" of Laodicaean Christian. There are many Christians in this category (I do not refer to any one person). He was converted unto Christ, but only in a contrived (or forced) sense. He needed to appear to be holy without being holy. Churches are full of contrived conversions. It is so easy to become a Christian today - you might be "born christian", or you might be "born-again" (because you said the "sinner's prayer").

In the 3rd century the Roman church made a law to accept into the church anyone who believed in Jesus - without baptism or repentance. They needed to fill churches up quickly after the great persecution, so they dropped the biblical criteria for being Christian to allow gnostics and heretics in to swell the church numbers again. These ones eventually had to declare allegiance to the Nicene Creed to prove their obedience to Rome, but their hearts were far from Christ. Positions of leadership (positions of bishop) were bought and sold, and they were given as rewards, along with churches. The church took a radical change of direction in the 4th century, and still to this day the church has not changed its fundamental direction from then.

All of this "corruption" was foretold to befall the church. God said he would turn us over to falsehood because we "had pleasure in unrighteousness". "God sends on them (the churches) a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false." (2 Thessalonians 2:11) We are all locked up in this promise of God. Because we had pleasure in unrighteousness we are fulfilling our falling away to this day. We have more false conversions among Christians than true ones. Most of us are fans, not players. We have come to watch the game and talk about the game; but very few actually play the game. You are not alone. I am a fan too. I am a liar, for every man is a liar (Romans 3:4). God alone cannot lie (Titus 1:2). There is only one who is good (Mathew 19:17). Do any of us really obey God? For he who says "I know Him", and "does not obey His commands is a liar". (1 John 2:4; 4:20) When Jesus comes again, "will He find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:8) or will we all be simply fans? Are we all forced/contrived conversions? I think so. I hope I do not offend you by this response. I do not condemn anyone. We are all in the same boat.

God Bless
Tri
 
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#18
I hope I didn't sound critical - I am not. I commend your honesty. I hope you get a little inspired and motivated here to help you along a bit.

Bless you
Tri
No, you didn't sound critical. Sorry, I guess what I said kind of implied that.

I appreciate your input :)
 
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#19
I mean this in a very general sense. He was a believer; yet not a true follower. He believed, yet Jesus knew he was the devil.

"Jesus replied, “Didn’t I choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is the devil?†Now he said this about Judas son of Simon Iscariot, for Judas, one of the twelve, was going to betray him." (John 6:70, 71)

Judas is a "type" of Laodicaean Christian. There are many Christians in this category (I do not refer to any one person). He was converted unto Christ, but only in a contrived (or forced) sense. He needed to appear to be holy without being holy. Churches are full of contrived conversions. It is so easy to become a Christian today - you might be "born christian", or you might be "born-again" (because you said the "sinner's prayer").

In the 3rd century the Roman church made a law to accept into the church anyone who believed in Jesus - without baptism or repentance. They needed to fill churches up quickly after the great persecution, so they dropped the biblical criteria for being Christian to allow gnostics and heretics in to swell the church numbers again. These ones eventually had to declare allegiance to the Nicene Creed to prove their obedience to Rome, but their hearts were far from Christ. Positions of leadership (positions of bishop) were bought and sold, and they were given as rewards, along with churches. The church took a radical change of direction in the 4th century, and still to this day the church has not changed its fundamental direction from then.

All of this "corruption" was foretold to befall the church. God said he would turn us over to falsehood because we "had pleasure in unrighteousness". "God sends on them (the churches) a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false." (2 Thessalonians 2:11) We are all locked up in this promise of God. Because we had pleasure in unrighteousness we are fulfilling our falling away to this day. We have more false conversions among Christians than true ones. Most of us are fans, not players. We have come to watch the game and talk about the game; but very few actually play the game. You are not alone. I am a fan too. I am a liar, for every man is a liar (Romans 3:4). God alone cannot lie (Titus 1:2). There is only one who is good (Mathew 19:17). Do any of us really obey God? For he who says "I know Him", and "does not obey His commands is a liar". (1 John 2:4; 4:20) When Jesus comes again, "will He find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:8) or will we all be simply fans? Are we all forced/contrived conversions? I think so. I hope I do not offend you by this response. I do not condemn anyone. We are all in the same boat.

God Bless
Tri
Wow, I really don't know what to say to this. You are basically saying that all Christians today are "forced conversions," and therefore no different than Judas?
 
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#20
Wow, I really don't know what to say to this. You are basically saying that all Christians today are "forced conversions," and therefore no different than Judas?
Yes and No. Yes, forced (or contrived) conversions; and no, not all like Judas. We are going through a period of time that is similar to when the Jews were in captivity in Babylon. We are all in slavery. God judges us differently for this reason. Judas was given the opportunity to be taught by Christ personally; we are taught false ideas from a young age, and institutional hypocrisy is everywhere. God knows how difficult it is for us, and he gives us a season of grace accordingly. He calls us, through the message to the "seven churches", to repent. Each of the churches has something to repent of, basically, so repentance (or lack of) is our common denominator. This is what God will particularly require from us at His return; that we be willing to repent and follow Him. Many will be too indoctrinated by the "club" they belong to and they will defend their own view till the death. It will actually be a lot simpler than that - based on a willingness to repent. We are living close to the time of the awakening of the church, so we already see signs of this starting to develop. God has not forsaken us, even though we have "betrayed" him. His love is bigger than ours.

Tri