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History important

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#61
I have never attended a church like that.
So you have never heard of the so-called "Prosperity Gospel"? Is that what you are saying?
Why should that surprise any Christian who is watching; the Church's influence will certainly wane as the end of days approaches.....
It wanes and waxes and wanes and waxes
But it shouldn't.
 
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#64
Just a few comments. The Bible does have history in it and a lot more. So we could try and say that teaching from the Bible is teaching Christian history, but since the end of the Bible was the start of Christianity as a religion, we can't really say that with much conviction.
To the contrary, both Judaism and Christianity are historical religions. If they are not grounded in history, they could be mystical religions, but they are not historical religions.

The end of the Bible was NOT the start of Christianity. Christianity started with the incarnation of Jesus Christ (Christianity comes from 'Christ') and particularly through his life, death and resurrection. The Book of Acts is decidedly an historical book. Yes, history!

Oz
 
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#66
So you have never heard of the so-called "Prosperity Gospel"? Is that what you are saying?
No I heard of it....some guy up in Cleveland used to preach it on radio and TV few decades back.....his name escapes me......
Just never been to one.....sounds like a church for the greedy......and they get what they deserve.
It wanes and waxes and wanes and waxes
But it shouldn't.
Of course it should....to make way for the great falling away....revealing the man of sin.....and bringing on the end times....
 
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#68
No I heard of it....some guy up in Cleveland used to preach it on radio and TV few decades back.....his name escapes me......
Just never been to one.....sounds like a church for the greedy......and they get what they deserve.

Of course it should....to make way for the great falling away....revealing the man of sin.....and bringing on the end times....
Do you think people will be able to recognize the man of sin.. the son of perdition?
 
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#74
It is quite possible given Mat 24:24 The deception is very strong only the elect will recognize him.. in my lifetime I've seen just how strong the deception is..
 
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#75
To the contrary, both Judaism and Christianity are historical religions. If they are not grounded in history, they could be mystical religions, but they are not historical religions.

The end of the Bible was NOT the start of Christianity. Christianity started with the incarnation of Jesus Christ (Christianity comes from 'Christ') and particularly through his life, death and resurrection. The Book of Acts is decidedly an historical book. Yes, history!

Oz
Neither Christianity not Judaism are "grounded in history"!! They are grounded in God, and God is spirit. So they might indeed be called mystical religions in some sense. In fact at one point in time mysticism was associated with the spiritual aspect of Christianity. Today the meaning has change and the words now takes on a more demonic or spiritual meaning in reference to other religions which are based on having a spiritual encounter instead of an encounter with our Lord Jesus Christ.

And yes Acts certainly has a historical aspect, but a lot more than that! We see our Lord Jesus Christ sending the Spirit of God which came as tongues of fire. A very spiritual or mystical event, I might add. Then we see our Lord Jesus Christ talking from a position in heaven to Saul. We know that because Saul heard the words spoken but not those with him. They picked up something, but not all that was going on, and if it was physical and not spiritual/ mystical then they would have heard and experience what Saul did. But that didn't happen. And this goes on.

So we do have a historical account of the events. Those events that got the Christian church going, but that was only a start. The church is where it is today because of many many such event over time, and what do you know of them? We as a group don't know much about them. Certainly some do, and there are many records and historical accounts that are not in the Bible because they happen after the time of the Bible, but they too can be learned from. So while I consider the Bible to be Holy writ from God, that doesn't mean I only learn from the Bible. The Lord said He and the Father have been working to this day, and I don't think that meant He was stopping after He said that. He is still working today and also the 2000 years since the Bible account concluded. We should know something about that time.

Christian should know a lot more about how the Christain church came to be what it is today! We should know a bit of our history, and perhaps even that mysticism once referred to what today we might call Charismatic or Spirit filled Christians!
 
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#76
What specifically was confusing?
The scriptures are not confusing.
You have not answered the question and now seem to be doing everything in your power to avoid doing so.
No matter.
I was just curious.
I'll be fine without any answer from you.
Have a nice day.
 
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#77
No I heard of it....some guy up in Cleveland used to preach it on radio and TV few decades back.....his name escapes me......
Just never been to one.....sounds like a church for the greedy......and they get what they deserve.

Of course it should....to make way for the great falling away....revealing the man of sin.....and bringing on the end times....
The "end times" began 2000 years ago.
 
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#79
Maybe you could explain in more detail....?
I can try.

To re-cap to try and stay on track.

You said, "Why should that surprise any Christian who is watching; the Church's influence will certainly wane as the end of days approaches....."

And I replied: "It wanes and waxes and wanes and waxes But it shouldn't."

Your reply was: "Of course it should....to make way for the great falling away....revealing the man of sin.....and bringing on the end times.... " (Referring, I believe to 2 Thes 2:3 "Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed,..." [NKJV])

So Paul was talking about the resurrection at the time of the second coming, not the beginning of the end times.

To which I replied: "The "end times" began 2000 years ago."

To which you asked for more detail.
OK
1st. The "great falling away" and the 'revealing of the man of sin" are the signs of the second coming of the Lord and the resurrection of the dead (2Th 2:1) not the "end times." (Eschaton) When Jesus comes again, there will be the judgment and the restoration of all things which is the coming of the Kingdom of God in its fullness.

But the beginning of the coming of the Kingdom of God happened at Pentecost when the the Church was established. It was the beginning of the Kingdom of God coming in power. (Mar 9:1, Luk 9:27) The beginning of the "end times" (eschaton.)

Jesus declared that all power and authority in heaven and on earth had been given to Him prior to His ascension. (Mat 28:18)
The Church is His body and the manifest presence of the Kingdom of God on earth since Pentecost almost 2000 years ago.
But the church is not the FULLNESS of the presence of the Kingdom of God.
That will not happen until He comes again in Glory to judge the living and the dead and His kingdom will have no end.

Questions?

iakov the fool
 
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#80
I can try.

To re-cap to try and stay on track.

You said, "Why should that surprise any Christian who is watching; the Church's influence will certainly wane as the end of days approaches....."

And I replied: "It wanes and waxes and wanes and waxes But it shouldn't."

Your reply was: "Of course it should....to make way for the great falling away....revealing the man of sin.....and bringing on the end times.... " (Referring, I believe to 2 Thes 2:3 "Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed,..." [NKJV])

So Paul was talking about the resurrection at the time of the second coming, not the beginning of the end times.

To which I replied: "The "end times" began 2000 years ago."

To which you asked for more detail.
OK
1st. The "great falling away" and the 'revealing of the man of sin" are the signs of the second coming of the Lord and the resurrection of the dead (2Th 2:1) not the "end times." (Eschaton) When Jesus comes again, there will be the judgment and the restoration of all things which is the coming of the Kingdom of God in its fullness.

But the beginning of the coming of the Kingdom of God happened at Pentecost when the the Church was established. It was the beginning of the Kingdom of God coming in power. (Mar 9:1, Luk 9:27) The beginning of the "end times" (eschaton.)

Jesus declared that all power and authority in heaven and on earth had been given to Him prior to His ascension. (Mat 28:18)
The Church is His body and the manifest presence of the Kingdom of God on earth since Pentecost almost 2000 years ago.
But the church is not the FULLNESS of the presence of the Kingdom of God.
That will not happen until He comes again in Glory to judge the living and the dead and His kingdom will have no end.

Questions?

iakov the fool
I thought you held the partial preterist belief but was not positive; thanks for clearing that up......
 
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