Holiness - are we made holy through repentance and confession

[Jim Parker]

We are not on a game show of proving things, or building up badges. We do not make ourselves "worthy" but we
walk in a worthy way, we do not make ourselves saved, but because we are saved we honour the one who
saved us and follow His teaching.

A legalist talks about rules, a person in love does not want to upset the one they love but do the best for all.
A legalist wants a label of Holy, a person who loves Christ just wants to dwell with Him.
I hope you can see the difference, but I know from hard experience many do not.

Agreed.
But the pursuit of holiness in obedience to the LORD is not "earning badges" or about "legalism" (which means keeping the Law of Moses).
The pursuit of holiness is the process of being conformed to the image of the perfect human being; Jesus of Nazareth. (AKA: God the Logos incarnate)
Eph 1:4 ...He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
1Pe 1:15-16 ... as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”
Heb 12:14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:

It is my understanding that being perfectly holy is not something we can achieve this side of glory but that it is something that we are to struggle to attain.

iakov the fool

 

[PeterJens]

Agreed.
But the pursuit of holiness in obedience to the LORD is not "earning badges" or about "legalism" (which means keeping the Law of Moses).
The pursuit of holiness is the process of being conformed to the image of the perfect human being; Jesus of Nazareth. (AKA: God the Logos incarnate)
Eph 1:4 ...He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
1Pe 1:15-16 ... as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”
Heb 12:14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:

It is my understanding that being perfectly holy is not something we can achieve this side of glory but that it is something that we are to struggle to attain.

iakov the fool

"It is my understanding that being perfectly holy is not something we can achieve this side of glory"

I neither accept nor reject this observation, but would like to look at it a bit deeper.
Holy - we are either holy, clean, pure, forgiven, acceptable, or not.
So as soon as we use language like "perfectly" holy, we are not talking about biblical holiness but our
understanding of it.

We are also hazy about what the Lord accepts within us through grace, and what is sin.
If I see someone who I regard as beautiful and one expression of that is sexual desire, it is not a sin to
have this response, it is how I am made. What I do with this desire, how I respect myself and the other
party, and the actions that flow define sin, and mistakes.

Equally we often condemn ourselves over social issues, not enough concern or going out of ones way etc.
not realising this is all of our making. One member on a forum listed that if his neighbour was ill and he did
not go over and look after them, he was failing to love His neighbour as himself, and therefore in sin.
Now this is creating self condemnation, over something that socially is more nuanced, and showing concern,
and if the opportunity came one would offer help.

Now Paul appears to be saying, as well as Peter, we are Holy, as believers, washed clean and pure.
And this is where I start. What do they mean and can I picture this, because they have a better understanding
of the Lord than me. And the answer appears to be, we are Holy because we follow and have fellowship with
the Lord, who cleansed us through repentance and confession of our sins. So in a state of holiness, we can
become defiled, but we are in this state. I think this is what Paul and Peter are trying to tell us, though we have
such a hard time accepting, Jesus has cleansed us, and washed us clean, and He embraces us at a fundamental
level. We do not see this because all our relationships are distant compared to this one.

This at least is my thinking on the emphasis scripture is teaching. Purified daily, washed through the word,
dwelling with the Most High, in worship, adoration and praise.

 

[PeterJens]

One observation.

Holiness is God, it is who He is, How He is, and where He is.

So when believers start saying those who aspire to walk like Jesus are heretics, evil, pharisees, legalists,
people doomed to hell, and leading others to hell, there is a problem.

In every aspect of the Christian walk there will be hypocrites, aspirers how claim the stars and fall flat on
their face. So looking at people and their sin, neither proves a point or nullifies it.

What is a deep concern of mine, is no way are those who pursue holiness and righteousness evil, born of
satan. Rather those who condemn such as these are doing the enemies work, and it has always been so
from the beginning.

Jesus said this
Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Matt 5:10

People are either in the Kingdom, with a real experience of Christ and the Holy Spirit or they are not.
So many voices will come, and rail against His people, but we are simply called to listen and follow.

Again, a believer told me reading the sermon on the mount just brought them condemnation and not joy.
This is something spiritually profound. Jesus is describing what the Holy Spirit does inside us and how we
can live this life with Him, not as condemnation and failure, but as a promise of what purity, love and righteousness
is in the Lord. So if the sermon on the mount condemns you, humble yourself before the King and ask Him to
give you more of the Holy Spirit so you can see and judge aright, for He promises He will.

If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!
Luke 11:13

 

[WIP]

"It is my understanding that being perfectly holy is not something we can achieve this side of glory"

I neither accept nor reject this observation, but would like to look at it a bit deeper.
Holy - we are either holy, clean, pure, forgiven, acceptable, or not.
So as soon as we use language like "perfectly" holy, we are not talking about biblical holiness but our
understanding of it.

We are also hazy about what the Lord accepts within us through grace, and what is sin.
If I see someone who I regard as beautiful and one expression of that is sexual desire, it is not a sin to
have this response, it is how I am made. What I do with this desire, how I respect myself and the other
party, and the actions that flow define sin, and mistakes.

Equally we often condemn ourselves over social issues, not enough concern or going out of ones way etc.
not realising this is all of our making. One member on a forum listed that if his neighbour was ill and he did
not go over and look after them, he was failing to love His neighbour as himself, and therefore in sin.
Now this is creating self condemnation, over something that socially is more nuanced, and showing concern,
and if the opportunity came one would offer help.

Now Paul appears to be saying, as well as Peter, we are Holy, as believers, washed clean and pure.
And this is where I start. What do they mean and can I picture this, because they have a better understanding
of the Lord than me. And the answer appears to be, we are Holy because we follow and have fellowship with
the Lord, who cleansed us through repentance and confession of our sins. So in a state of holiness, we can
become defiled, but we are in this state. I think this is what Paul and Peter are trying to tell us, though we have
such a hard time accepting, Jesus has cleansed us, and washed us clean, and He embraces us at a fundamental
level. We do not see this because all our relationships are distant compared to this one.

This at least is my thinking on the emphasis scripture is teaching. Purified daily, washed through the word,
dwelling with the Most High, in worship, adoration and praise.

The concern that I have is that too often we make the mistake of teaching, intentionally or otherwise, that when we have been forgiven and cleansed, it is the finished accomplishment and not the beginning. This is what I believe James spoke of when he wrote his letter. Many see his letter as legalism but I believe it is not about legalism but rather describing how one lives out the faith to which he/she has been called. Once we have been saved by the grace of God, we are made anew (2 Corinthians 5:17) and it is only the beginning. What does that new life look like from the outside? Same old, same old????

Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does. If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one’s religion is useless. Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world. James 1:21-27 NKJV

What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:14-26 NKJV

 

[ezra]

to many think holiness is accomplished by our own merit Holy sanctified are all in same word group. Holiness only comes by being connected to the true vine . but we are to press toward the mark of the high calling . i posted on this early on.

 

[PeterJens]

The concern that I have is that too often we make the mistake of teaching, intentionally or otherwise, that when we have been forgiven and cleansed, it is the finished accomplishment and not the beginning.

Amen

The beginning is taking steps into that which is achieved, good, loving, as it should be.
I have seen a society were friendship does not exist, just not upsetting people and playing games.
It creates the illusion of interaction and knowledge without any of its reality.

So much of this world is based on fear of not being important and listened to, of being nothing, so one spends
ones time achieving something to just put others down. But all this leads to is loneliness and envy.

I do wonder how those who claim to know Jesus are so quick to say a belief system defines Christ rather than
how He behaves because of the reality of the Father. So dying to honour the King, who is eternal is the greatest
honour one can give, and shinning the light of His love is the brightest light of all.

I see my brothers and sisters, and I used to think of them in context to myself rather than in the place they are
at and how much of a blessing they are. I then can see so much potential, and how I can encourage and lead
on without actually doing it knowingly. It does not matter where I rise or what I achieve, just that I see ways to
express His will and walk in it, by the grace and light I am given. Even winning an argument serves no purpose
if the opponent will never face the truth, just expressing enough is all that is required.