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Many muslims think Mohamud is the messenger in the bible, and to a point Mohamud is in John's gospel, the thief who comes to steal, kill and destroy.
 
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Even I myself must admit, that I have been off a little off the OP, but please lets stay with the 1st. topic. or this can go on and on.
 
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Yes, we have wandered far and wide....myself included......
Has anyone got any articles where the muslims have reached out to Christians, primarily in the ME where they are a significant majority, in an effort to peacefully coexist with Christians?......or is this really a one way path from us to them?
 
Nathan said:
Yes, really. :) I was 'taught' that they were expecting His return any moment also. But once I started just reading it for what it is, I realized that in 1 Thessalonians they were just being taught "normal stuff" being a young church as they were(new believers). The only thing I see in 1 Thessalonians is the phrase; "we who are alive, who are left". I think this is what most people base the whole imminent thought on. I do believe Paul taught for all church's to be ready, and taught them as if the 'season' of His return could begin at any moment. I would not call their belief in His return as imminent. I believe there is a difference between hoping He will come quickly and belief that He will appear at any moment.

In 2 Thessalonians is where I find the most telling aspect. The believers there were troubled by some who said the resurrection had already happened. Maybe they thought they were living in the millennium? Either way, they thought they had missed out and their hope in Him was beginning to fade. So Paul laid it out - first the 'rebellion' has to take place and the man of sin is revealed. Paul clearly states they can have full faith the gathering together with Christ has not happened simply because the rebellion and lawless one had not yet been revealed.

Paul may have thought this could happen in his lifetime - but he knew it had to happen first, and used it as a 'reference point' for the Thessalonians to help them calm down. So needless to say, they did not think the return was imminent.........they thought it had already happened. lol They were just simply confused and troubled by some yahoo's. But Paul was able to give them words of comfort for them to then comfort others.

One thing to consider is that the return of Christ is spoken of as a thief in the night. However, when it is spoken as such it is spoken to people who have no faith or who are being lazy. For those who are truly waiting for Him, looking for Him, they are refereed to as people walking around in the day - most likely speaking of the daylight hours before the thief comes that night. They are said to see the condition of the times, and therefore will not be surprised.
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Hi Nathan,

I just realized I never answered this.

I did re-read Thessalonians again. I must say it's not among my favorite letters. Seems I'm pretty turned off to anything escatological.
It does, as you said, speak of instruction to the Thessalonians. Guess everyone has been waiting for Jesus to return. And one day He will.
I'm posting this as my understanding that they believed Jesus was to return soon.
1 Thessalonians 5:1-4
2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 is also very interesting. I believe this has to do with preterism. Not sure.

It ocurred to me while reading that Thessalonians is not used very much to show that we are to follow in the footsteps of Jesus and the teachings of Paul and the Apostles, but it IS very good for this. It's good to have re read it in a different light.

Thanks!
 
WalterandDebbie said:
To me, this is why I said, once a person believes in Jesus as what he have said in the scriptures, and he knows whoever is faithful and doing the works until the end of time.

Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Matthew 24:46
http://biblehub.com/matthew/24-46.htm

John 7:38 This is from The Adam Clarke Commentary
He that believeth on me, as the Scripture hath said - He who receives me as the Messiah, according to what the Scripture has said concerning me; my person, birth, conduct, preaching, and miracles, being compared with what is written there as ascertaining the true Messiah. Out of his belly - from his heart and soul; for in his soul shall this Spirit dwell.

Living water - As a true spring is ever supplied with water from the great deep, with which it has communication, so shall the soul of the genuine believer be supplied with light, life, love, and liberty, and all the other graces of the indwelling Spirit, from the indwelling Christ.

The Jews frequently compare the gifts and influences of the Holy Spirit to water in general - to rain, fountains, wells, rivers, etc., etc. The Scriptures abound in this metaphor.

Psalm 36:8, Psalm 36:9; Isaiah 44:3, Isaiah 44:4; Joel 2:23.
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Very good W and D.
Thanks.

I also thought of Psalm 23:2b
He leads me beside quiet water.

Not raging waters, but quiet waters where one can take his rest.

The Samarian woman at the well...
John 4:13-14
The water is flowing and will never end. Thus, one will never be thirsty again.
 
wondering said:
Hi Nathan,

I just realized I never answered this.

I did re-read Thessalonians again. I must say it's not among my favorite letters. Seems I'm pretty turned off to anything escatological.
It does, as you said, speak of instruction to the Thessalonians. Guess everyone has been waiting for Jesus to return. And one day He will.
I'm posting this as my understanding that they believed Jesus was to return soon.
1 Thessalonians 5:1-4
2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 is also very interesting. I believe this has to do with preterism. Not sure.

It ocurred to me while reading that Thessalonians is not used very much to show that we are to follow in the footsteps of Jesus and the teachings of Paul and the Apostles, but it IS very good for this. It's good to have re read it in a different light.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
You must have a back log :) Glad to see you posting again.

Yes, I like the 'little' letters like these in the NT. You can read through them very easily, front to back, without being overwhelmed by the amount of theological doctrine. Not to say there is only a little in these letters, but the size of the letters make it manageable.

I think the Church has been waiting for His return since He left. I can imagine the disciples standing there, looking up watching Him leave, and thinking - ok, see you next week? :)

I just know that Paul understood, and taught, that we would know the 'season' of His return. And in the second letter, when people were telling the others that it had already happened, Paul reaffirmed that certain things had to happen first - which were apart of the 'season' of His return.

I imagine all through history people have tried to make certain events line up with what has been prophesied to take place. However, I think that when the true things that will take place happen - there will be zero doubt that they are the things that were spoken of. At least for those who are awake. :wink
 
Nathan said:
You must have a back log :) Glad to see you posting again.

Yes, I like the 'little' letters like these in the NT. You can read through them very easily, front to back, without being overwhelmed by the amount of theological doctrine. Not to say there is only a little in these letters, but the size of the letters make it manageable.

I think the Church has been waiting for His return since He left. I can imagine the disciples standing there, looking up watching Him leave, and thinking - ok, see you next week? :)

I just know that Paul understood, and taught, that we would know the 'season' of His return. And in the second letter, when people were telling the others that it had already happened, Paul reaffirmed that certain things had to happen first - which were apart of the 'season' of His return.

I imagine all through history people have tried to make certain events line up with what has been prophesied to take place. However, I think that when the true things that will take place happen - there will be zero doubt that they are the things that were spoken of. At least for those who are awake. :wink
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Hi Nathan,

My favorite aunt passed away.
I didn't think it would affect me so much due to her age. She was 95, but i remember her when she was young and did so much for me. She had a big impact on my life. I'm in Italy, as you know...so she was catholic but a born again believer.

I think that everyone has been waiting for the end. Maybe it wasn't possible till now?
We now have the means to wipe out mankind.
I don't care anymore. We're not headed for anything good.

This is SLIGHTLY off topic!
Sorry.
 
wondering said:
Hi Nathan,

My favorite aunt passed away.
I didn't think it would affect me so much due to her age. She was 95, but i remember her when she was young and did so much for me. She had a big impact on my life. I'm in Italy, as you know...so she was catholic but a born again believer.

I think that everyone has been waiting for the end. Maybe it wasn't possible till now?
We now have the means to wipe out mankind.
I don't care anymore. We're not headed for anything good.

This is SLIGHTLY off topic!
Sorry.
Click to expand...

Eh, sometimes its ok to get slightly off topic I think. :)
 
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