Bible Study How Can One Have Faith and No Works?

[eddif]

I would be editing more post if i ,knew better how to use this tablet

Stand by. We may need some reminders.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[th1b.taylor]

I don't know where you got that Idea.
I certainly didn't suggest that "any sprinkling" was a baptism.
I did give you the oldest document from the ancient Church, dating from the time of the contemporaries of the apostles or, at least, their disciples, which states that pouring is an acceptable method.

When people say that baptism is not necessary for salvation they are saying that obeying Christ is not necessary for salvation. That is a lie from the pit of hell. THe devil does not want believers to obey God.

English Standard Version
And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Acts
So, I don't consider identifying the lie from the pit of hell that believers don't have to be baptized as being silly or childish.

(1) I'm not your son.
(2) I'm a 72 year old veteran. (whoopie - me and 10 million other guys and gals)
Being a veteran isn't worth a hill of beans for understanding the scriptures.
Neither does being in your seventies.
Some people in their 70s, 80s, or 90s haven't learned a thing since they were 10.
Having graduated from seminary (Fuller) with a graduate degree in theology does help.
I did that. Did you?
(3) I'm not throwing anything away; I'm telling you what Jesus commanded.
He commanded that you be baptized. (Mat 28:19) You say it's not necessary.
He also said "If you love me, keep my commandments." (Jhn 14:15) You're saying we don't have to.
He also said that, if you don't do as He commands then don't call Him your Lord. (Luk 6:46) You're ignoring that.
So, you do as you please. Obey Him or ignore His command. It's your funeral.
(4) The necessity of being baptized in spelled out in so many words multiple times in the New Testament.
I have posted them for you before.
I can post them for you again if you are interested in seeing what the scripture tells us about the requirement to be baptized.
Your choice.

Going to Seminary doesn't you anything more than give you one more certificate to look good on the wall. The thief on the cross went to Hell and Jesus lied to him with your standard for Salvation because he did not get off the cross to be baptized.
Acts 18:31 English Standard Version
And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Romans 10:9that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved.

I'm sorry you have taken gotten so angry but I do urge you to learn that no scripture can ever be fully and rightly understood without the light of all scripture shinning on it. Baptism is the first command we need to obey, if we are able but it will not save anyone.

When somebody is not Baptized I am concerned but if their Fruit is good I can figure they have been touch by the LORD. It is not my duty to condemn anyone. I am bound to point out if their fruit is smelly but I will condemn nobody for the lack of a Baptism. I pray I never become that legalistic.

 

[eddif]

I Corinthians 10:2 kjv
And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Shadows of things to come.

eddif

 

[eddif]

I Corinthians 10:5 kjv
But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

Is this the wet sinners (after baptism)?
(By type and shadow?)
eddif

 

[Jim Parker]

Jim , why are you so bitter

Bittter????
You attempted to ascribe a statement to me which was not mine. I said nothing about "sprinkling."
And I gave you a reference to the most ancient "new Christian class" in existence.
I don't understand how you would construe that as bitterness.

and doesn't the Word say in the latter days ''who so ever calls on the name of the Lord ''Jesus'' shall be saved'' ..

It most certainly does! that's Paul quoting Joel 2:32 at Rom 10:13 “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”
However, being saved and refusing to obey Jesus' commandments are mutually exclusive.

I've led a lot of folks to the Lord in prayer and profession of faith ..

Great!!!! You're an effective evangelist operating in the gift of the Spirit with which God has blessed you!
But that's a different topic.

Do you preach they must get baptized right then ?

No. Why would I? It might be impossible.
In the ancient Church, people were regularly baptized on Pashca (Easter) morning. They may have "accepted Christ as their Lord and savior" months earlier. They would first be catechized (New Christian Class) and then baptized.
In the book of Acts, baptism commonly followed very closely after belief. (Acts 2:41; Act 8:12-13, 38; 10:47; 9:18...)

What I said was that the LORD God Jesus Christ commanded that all disciples be baptized. (Mat 28:19)

It's a total mystery to me why I get so much resistance and so many angry responses (yours wasn't angry) when I quote Jesus' command to all believers.

Jesus said to be baptized. (Mat 28:19)
Peter said to be baptized. (Acts 2:38)
Peter also said we are saved in baptism. (1Peter 3:20-21)

iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

Going to Seminary doesn't you anything more than give you one more certificate to look good on the wall.

That's a common response from people who have not had the opportunity to be taught by those who have been given the gift of teaching and who have devoted their lives to studying and teaching scripture. It betrays an irrational view of the value of education.

If you don't think a seminary education is of any value then ignore everything that Paul wrote. He was taught by one of the two leading teachers of his day; Gamaliel. (Act 22:3)

Church "leaders" who were not educated include Ellen G. White (founder of 7th Day Adventist Church and false prophetess) and Charles Taze Russell. (False prophet and founder of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Jehovah's Witnesses, a spin-off of the 7thDAs.)

It is amazing to me that some one with a life threatening health problem would never think of going to a "doctor" who had not been to medical school but are perfectly happy to bet their eternal life on the teaching of someone with a GED and a King James Bible.

The thief on the cross went to Hell and Jesus lied to him with your standard for Salvation because he did not get off the cross to be baptized.

HAH! That's ridiculous!
Was it possible for the thief to be baptized? No, it was not.
And I believe that if it is impossible for a person to be baptized when he believes then God is not so cruel and sadistic as to send him to hell for failing to do what is totally impossible for him to do.

But, I also believe that, since Jesus commanded every believer to be baptized (Mat 28:19), those who refuse to do so or who neglect it have demonstrated that Jesus is not really their LORD. If they really considered Jesus to be their LORD then they would do as He commanded.
That's why Jesus said, "But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,' and not do the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46)
So, getting baptized is not MY standard; it is the standard of the LORD God Jesus Christ.

Acts 18:31English Standard Version
And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

You meant Acts 16:31. (I have fat fingers too!)

The rest of the story is: (16:31-33) So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.
Why were they baptized?
They were baptized because the LORD God Jesus Christ commanded that they be baptized.
They truly believed so they obeyed the LORD.

I do urge you to learn that no scripture can ever be fully and rightly understood without the light of all scripture shinning on it.

And I urge you to take your own advise and accept ALL that scripture tells us about baptism.

Baptism is the first command we need to obey, if we are able

That's all I'm saying.
But, every time I say it, all kinds of people get all sideways.

it will not save anyone.

Neither will anyone be saved who neglects or refuses to obey Jesus commandments.
And, according to Peter, baptism does save.
1Pe 3:20-21 (NKJV) ... who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

iakov the fool

 

[Papa Zoom]

time out for mod review

 

[reba]

Papa Zoom I see zero reason to reopen this thread...
Personal life has been a wreck but smoothing out. I should have more time to spend reading the threads..
Thankful to have a fellow mod here...

 

[Papa Zoom]

Papa Zoom I see zero reason to reopen this thread...
Personal life has been a wreck but smoothing out. I should have more time to spend reading the threads..
Thankful to have a fellow mod here...

I agree. This thread has seriously lost its way. Many reasons for that so sorry folks but it will remain closes.