Post some Bible let's get down to business, anything else is small talk. Like Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Bible Study How Can One Have Faith and No Works?
- Thread starter Bro.Tan
- Start date
Post some Bible let's get down to business, anything else is small talk. Like Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Lets go into (James 2:14-18, 20-26) (v.14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? (v.15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of a daily food, (v.16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? If someone came to you hungry and needed clothes and all you told them was peace be unto you, and God bless you, be ye warmed and filled. All you did was give lip service, no works, you didn’t help the problem. (v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. The bible has been telling you all alone that you must have fruits to prove your faith. (v.18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. True faith goes hand in hand with good works. (v.20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Did you know that? Has anybody ever read this verse to you? How can you, after reading this verse ever say again that we need not work? You can have all the faith you want, but if you have no works to go along with that faith, that faith is in vain, that faith is dead. (v.21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? We read where Abraham, the father of the faithful showed the Lord his faith by his works. (v.22) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? (v.23) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND IT WAS IMPUTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS: and he was called the friend of God. (v.24) Ye see then how that by works a man is Justified, and not by faith only. Do you see that also? Do you understand that you need works to go along with that faith; if you love and fear God then you should have no problem obeying his commandments. (v.25) Likewise also was not Ra’-hab the harlot justified by works, when she received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? Ra’-hab showed her faith in God and her fear of God by doing good works. (v.26) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. Take it or leave it, but this is the true uncut word of God. Just as the body is dead when you take away the spirit (breath) so faith is dead if you have no works.
th1b.taylor
Member
Son,
You qouted my message and instead of respect and dealing with the issue, you treat me as ignorant? Answer questions when asked or totally ignore them. Posting a poor attempt at a Sermon is dumb and all you accomplish is to make a fool of yourself.
Now, how odare you in the Faith?
If one is loving as Jesus loved they are not committing adultery, committing murder or falsely testifying against another, not coveting that which belongs to another etc etc. those that continue to sin after coming to the knowledge of truth should expect judgment. God cannot be mocked. But the forgiveness of sin is by faith in Christ Jesus not by works of the law. Again a good tree doesn't bare bad fruit.
Romans 12:3 KJV
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
There are times that it is hard to tell the natural Flesh man from the new Born Again man. Scripture can refer to either at different times.
The parable of the sower sure seems to be the new man. Jesus is the sower and the debth of his inner man teaching is being taught / presented to the disciples. Matthew 5 and 6 are abstract inner man qualities.
Not that I have always been aware of just how it goes. At times I really cry out for help in telling which man is which.
The works of the law were the old man.
The works of the spirit are the new man.
Rednecks still struggle with it.
eddif
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
There are times that it is hard to tell the natural Flesh man from the new Born Again man. Scripture can refer to either at different times.
The parable of the sower sure seems to be the new man. Jesus is the sower and the debth of his inner man teaching is being taught / presented to the disciples. Matthew 5 and 6 are abstract inner man qualities.
Not that I have always been aware of just how it goes. At times I really cry out for help in telling which man is which.
The works of the law were the old man.
The works of the spirit are the new man.
Rednecks still struggle with it.
eddif
Your right, in judgment each one of us will give account for our own salvation. Therefore, we must not let anyone lead us down the wrong path, but should verify all of our teaching with the holy bible. YOUR SALVATION IS AT STAKE! "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12). Jesus warned us that the road to salvation is straight and narrow and that only a few of us will find it. Many are traveling down the wrong road, which leads to destruction. (Matt 7:13,14) This is because many of us have heard about salvation but few of us want to do what is necessary to get salvation (many are called but few are chosen).
Many contend that Jesus did it all and now all we have to do is have faith. The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22). DON'T FOOL YOURSELF! If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it. If Jesus is our Lord then we will obey him. Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD" (James 2:20).
Some say you must obey God's word, but then they turn around and teach contrary to God's word. At best they never get around to explaining exactly what kind of works are needed to get eternal life. A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, "... KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS" (Matthew 19:16-19).
This was a direct answer to a direct question, which all of us will do well to take heed to. Anybody can claim to have faith, but actions speak louder than words. Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12).
Well sir, you don't come off as a pleasant person, so the best way to deal with a person as yourself is with straight book (Bible). Like Jesus said in Luke 6:41 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 42 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye. Where's your fruits my brother!
The bible speaks of only one way to get eternal salvation. "One Lord, one faith, one baptism" (Ephesians 4:5) Over the years many have taught various ways to receive everlasting life. No wonder the world is full of so many denominations. All of these different doctrines, seemingly coming from the bible, tend only to confuse people. Most people don't know what to believe and simply choose not to attend any church. God doesn't want us to memorize two or three verses, but instead he left the entire bible so we can learn how to get salvation. If we learn it, believe it and obey it (the bible), salvation will be our reward. I answer you by showing you through Paul that the law (ten commandments) is still good today.
The other law Paul talks about is the animal sacrificial law that's nail to the cross. Paul talks about more than one law when reading paul's writing, God had Peter to clearly warn you about some of Paul’s writing. (2 Peter:3:15-16) (v.15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
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SytheF
Guest
And you do?
Where's the grace?
What work are you putting in in this thread you invited people into?
What fruits do you display word for word?
How can we have faith and no works? Some Christians do it all the time. Their work is to downgrade other Christians for not hating the same way they hate. And in the name of what they think is righteousness.
Someone here said in a different discussion, we should look at the world as if Christ is looking out of our own eyes. I'm paraphrasing their remarks there. However, that's near enough. This way we can see the world recalling the indwelling Holy Spirit of God goes everywhere we do. And encounters everyone and everything we do.
WWJD? Is more than a slogan on a tee shirt. What Would Jesus Do? Should as near as we can have it happen precede everything we do or say to others.
How you doing in that department sport?
Talking to a brother like you did there. What do you have to impart that is superior wisdom when you come off first thing as one who is that judgmental as if that brother isn't worthy of grace.
And by the way and not for nothing, "Bro Tan"?
Google is our friend. It may help Taylor understand where you really are coming from.
th1b.taylor
Member
Young man,
( confess, I am direct and to the point, so was Jesus, If you are offended by direct questions, perhaps you need to check you might need to check your own condition as Jesus, the Christ, commanded us in Matthew 7:1-6.
Don’t fight too much. Don’t get the thread shut down.
I am learning right in the middle of this thread. I have tried to tie I Corinthians 12 to Romans 12 for decades, and got almost nothing.
With this thread I have had to go to
I Corinthians 12:11 kjv
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
If in verse I Corinthians 12:9 KJV
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
So faith has to be alive.
Then if I go to Romans 12:8 kjv
Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.
Simplicity is combined with giving. (?)
The James passsge quoted over and over ties faith and daily needs. Now giving with simplicity.
And finally.
Matthew 6:3 kjv
But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
(Simplicity in action)
So faith is tied to giving, with simplicity etc.
Have I really said anything yet? Probably not. But I now see Romans 12 defining how individual gifts are operated.
Redneck
eddif
I am learning right in the middle of this thread. I have tried to tie I Corinthians 12 to Romans 12 for decades, and got almost nothing.
With this thread I have had to go to
I Corinthians 12:11 kjv
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
If in verse I Corinthians 12:9 KJV
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
So faith has to be alive.
Then if I go to Romans 12:8 kjv
Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.
Simplicity is combined with giving. (?)
The James passsge quoted over and over ties faith and daily needs. Now giving with simplicity.
And finally.
Matthew 6:3 kjv
But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
(Simplicity in action)
So faith is tied to giving, with simplicity etc.
Have I really said anything yet? Probably not. But I now see Romans 12 defining how individual gifts are operated.
Redneck
eddif
th1b.taylor
Member
OMOP, that is a good read. Before I was saved, I was a giving person when people had real needs but nothing like I became after Jesus came into my life.
https://www.ohdsi.org/data-standardization/the-common-data-model/
That is an acronym I was not up on. I do know that if the value of c22 changes strange things can change in other places.
I think that way a lot of the time. When the ox is compared to a preacher it gets strange to some. God just does not think like we do. The Holy Spirit convincing us of sin, righteousness, judgement goes to a lot of sources.
The treasures of Gentiles are stored up for believers.
eddif
Its a difference then being direct, then a person just saying anything out there mouth. I'm a direct person, and I speak to people as we suppose being a christian. You should stop telling me what I need to do, and focus on this Bible when dealing with me. We don't personally know each other so lets stick to the word of God. When Jesus dealt with people he did it using scriptures not just running off at the mouth. For example...Jesus said in Mark 7: 6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching fordoctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. Today we still must obey all of God's laws and statues of conduct, from the Ten Commandments to the least commandment. We cannot choose to obey one without obeying the others. For instance, if it's still good to pay tithes (as many preach), then it is still good to obey God's dietary law (not eating pork, catfish, etc...Leviticus 11: 1-47. Similarly, you cannot purposely trip a blind person (Leviticus 19:14) and claim to love your neighbor as yourself. Neither can you break God's Sabbath days (Leviticus 19:30) and claim to love God with all your heart, soul and mind.
Many fight to uphold man's traditional holidays (Sunday the 1st day as the Sabbath, Christmas, Easter and Halloween), but few are obeying God's Holy Days (Saturday the 7th day Sabbath, the Passover, Pentecost, etc…Leviticus 23: 1-44. All of God's laws are still good and must be obeyed if we want eternal life. We might not be able to observe everything perfectly, but can fight a good fight. If we do this our prize awaits us at the end. "...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments" (Matthew 19:17).
Deuteronomy 25:4 kjv
Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn.
Commandments contained in ordinances.
Can you take me through the ox thing. It directly is tied to your post. Just what you once saw is not what does now directly apply.
Be glad to help. I was 12 years in the Old Covenant.
Redneck
eddif
Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus. And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past.
We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because all have sinned, and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check.
Paul said in (Rom. 11:22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. So people better continue in God’s goodness or you will be cut off. This is also the writing of thee Apostle Paul. You must continue to keep God’s laws if you expect to receive salvation. (Colo. 1:22-23) (v.22) In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: (v.23) If ye continue in the faith grounded and settle, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister. You must continue in the faith and not be moved by the cares of the world. It’s more than confessing the name of Jesus, salvation is a work in progress you must take it one day at a time. It is a sad thing to believe that once you say that you believe on Christ your journey is done. You have only taken the first steps toward learning about the true and living God. Look at what Paul said in (Heb. 3:14) For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; You must believe in what you are doing that’s what faith is, you most be confident unto the end. You must keep God’s law until death or until the coming of the Lord, if you expect salvation.
th1b.taylor
Member
Nobody understood that one, not even me when I read it. Imeant to type IMO. I must be getting old, do you su
It is our duty to Christ to lead the lost to the foot of the cross. (all four Gospel accounts and James 5:19-20) This might seem to much to you but every verse in the Bible is connected and I will not get into a Text-Proofing war with anyone, it is ungodly, what you seek.
th1b.taylor
Member
2583"]https://www.ohdsi.org/data-standardization/the-common-data-model/
That is an acronym I was not up on. I do know that if the value of c22 changes strange things can change in other places.
I think that way a lot of the time. When the ox is compared to a preacher it gets strange to some. God just does not think like we do. The Holy Spirit convincing us of sin, righteousness, judgement goes to a lot of sources.
The treasures of Gentiles are stored up for believers.
eddif[/QUOTE]
Nobody understood that one, not even me when I read it. Imeant to type IMO. I must be getting old, do you su
That is an acronym I was not up on. I do know that if the value of c22 changes strange things can change in other places.
I think that way a lot of the time. When the ox is compared to a preacher it gets strange to some. God just does not think like we do. The Holy Spirit convincing us of sin, righteousness, judgement goes to a lot of sources.
The treasures of Gentiles are stored up for believers.
eddif[/QUOTE]
Nobody understood that one, not even me when I read it. Imeant to type IMO. I must be getting old, do you su
It is our duty to Christ to lead the lost to the foot of the cross. (all four Gospel accounts and James 5:19-20) This might seem to much to you but every verse in the Bible is connected and I will not get into a Text-Proofing war with anyone, it is ungodly, what you seek.
The work of God is this; to believe in the one he sent.
Okay, what other works do I need?
Okay, what other works do I need?
James 2:18;
Now James said, show me your faith and I'll show you my faith and works.
Don't get caught up in the physical.
When James brings demons into the conversation, it becomes spiritual.
What are our spiritual works?
They are God's works.
We are to believe in the one he has sent.
How do good works come from this?
We go around in joy sharing Jesus and the Gospel with everyone we meet where ever we are
Can't be done?
My wife and I do it everyday as do others in our church
All other works are the result of our salvation
Now James said, show me your faith and I'll show you my faith and works.
Don't get caught up in the physical.
When James brings demons into the conversation, it becomes spiritual.
What are our spiritual works?
They are God's works.
We are to believe in the one he has sent.
How do good works come from this?
We go around in joy sharing Jesus and the Gospel with everyone we meet where ever we are
Can't be done?
My wife and I do it everyday as do others in our church
All other works are the result of our salvation
Allen we can use all the help we can get.
James 2:18 KJV
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
I don’t think James said that.
A man may say that.
If we get past what man might say we may get to the truth. The truth. Now I am sure the Word says the truth, but it seems hard to find.
Men may try to create two camps.
1. The works camp
2. The faith camp
I tend to agree with you. The truth is: it is God the works come from. Our spiritual birth:
A. If he needs spiritual help - give it
B. If he is hungry - feed him
Ok if I missed it:
Straighten me out:
Mississippi redneck
eddif
James 2:18 KJV
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
I don’t think James said that.
A man may say that.
If we get past what man might say we may get to the truth. The truth. Now I am sure the Word says the truth, but it seems hard to find.
Men may try to create two camps.
1. The works camp
2. The faith camp
I tend to agree with you. The truth is: it is God the works come from. Our spiritual birth:
A. If he needs spiritual help - give it
B. If he is hungry - feed him
Ok if I missed it:
Straighten me out:
Mississippi redneck
eddif