You're always on target.....except the times you disagree with me./...
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Bible Study How Can One Have Faith and No Works?
- Thread starter Bro.Tan
- Start date
Nobody understood that one, not even me when I read it. Imeant to type IMO. I must be getting old, do you su
It is our duty to Christ to lead the lost to the foot of the cross. (all four Gospel accounts and James 5:19-20) This might seem to much to you but every verse in the Bible is connected and I will not get into a Text-Proofing war with anyone, it is ungodly, what you seek.[/QUOTE]
This is love what I'm doing, I don't seek war, but love. We suppose to look out for each other in this manner as christians. The same way if we were walking together, and I saw a rattlesnake and warn you, because your mind was on something and I stop you from getting bit. Now, the Bible say in (2 Tim. 2:15) Study to shew thyself approved unto God, (not man) a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. You must rightfully divide the word of God, you must find out where everything fits because fit it does. What's unGodly is one who serve other Gods, as written in Exodus 20: 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; For example Paganism Christmas, Easter, going to Church on the first day of the week (Sunday). Many fight to uphold man's traditional holidays.
Another form of example of unGodliness Paul said in 1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. Let continue with Paul. Let go into Galatians 5: Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Now Paul said in Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
Now lets understand and reason together, Paul just gave us a run down on condition of sins. People who are behaving in such manner will not inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God, even those who are unclean. Being unclean does not mean a person doesn’t wash up, we are not talking about soap and water. We are talking about defiling the body, with unholiness or unGodliness.
These are the things that a person must stop doing if they really have faith in Jesus, because its takes work, the Holy Ghost is not going to do these things for you, you have to do them. Many contend that Jesus did it all and now all we have to do is have faith. The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22). DON'T FOOL YOURSELF! If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it. If Jesus is our Lord then we will obey him. Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD"(James 2:20).
Some say you must obey God's word, but then they turn around and teach contrary to God's word. At best they never get around to explaining exactly what kind of works are needed to get eternal life. A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, "... KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS" (Matthew 19:16-19).
th1b.taylor
Member
All of these posts, not just from me, and still you have avoided the issue that began all of this. I am an old man and I an patient but I am not stupid, you are a deceiver. This whole.and silly tirade of yours is about your view that to be saved one must be baptised and that, no matter if you do or do not discuss it is a miserable lie and for all your trouble avoiding it, I am hard put to believe you slipped ad said what you meant something else.
You said a being is Baptized to be saved and I said wrong and it remains Wrong! Because the Holy Spirit overcame me when I was on stage and because any man, woman or child that is saved is indwelt with the Holy Ghost and if he is not there, that person is not saved.
When I was later baptized, if I had not, earnestly repented and believed that Jesus died on that cross for me, all that would have been accomplished in that ceremony would have been, I got wet. Baptism is the First Ordinance of of the Church Family and demonstrates willingness to obey My Master.
Acts 10:47ESV
using a single Scripture like you used, I think I recall Mark 16:16 is only to set yourself up to look the Fool. Many deny it but the Bible is a set of squeal books, authored by God/Jesus. There are no conflicting scripture in the Bible as long as someone reads them in their context, with the guidance of the Holy spirit there is no issue in reconciling them to one another.
You said a being is Baptized to be saved and I said wrong and it remains Wrong! Because the Holy Spirit overcame me when I was on stage and because any man, woman or child that is saved is indwelt with the Holy Ghost and if he is not there, that person is not saved.
When I was later baptized, if I had not, earnestly repented and believed that Jesus died on that cross for me, all that would have been accomplished in that ceremony would have been, I got wet. Baptism is the First Ordinance of of the Church Family and demonstrates willingness to obey My Master.
Acts 10:47ESV
using a single Scripture like you used, I think I recall Mark 16:16 is only to set yourself up to look the Fool. Many deny it but the Bible is a set of squeal books, authored by God/Jesus. There are no conflicting scripture in the Bible as long as someone reads them in their context, with the guidance of the Holy spirit there is no issue in reconciling them to one another.
If we truly love God, then we will obey, “Every word" that proceeds out of the mouth of God, because we know that man shall not live by bread alone (Matthew 4:4). Baptism is one of those words. In order to be baptized, certain events must take place: You must give up a lifestyle where sin has dominion, (ruler ship) over you. Sin according to 1 John 3:4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression (breaking) of the law. Out of the mouth of Jesus, not my mouth..."And he said unto them, go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15- 16). Listen people! Baptism is a commandment or requirement for salvation.
Every soul that is baptized honors God and every soul that rejects baptism dishonors God. "And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him." (Luke 7:29-30). People, if you are in a position to be baptized, why reject the counsel of God? Rejecting God's counsel will get you eternal life in the burning flames (lake of fire) with the scribes and Pharisees. "For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, Ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5: 20). Anyone that is not baptized is a person with their sins yet upon them, because it is the baptism that washes away our past sins. "And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16): Remember, before his crucifixion, Jesus told his disciples that his time (death) is not yet come; He also informed them that their time (death) can come at any moment.
This is straight Bible, take it or leave it, the choice is your, by the mouth of Jesus these things are spoken!
brujaq
Member
We take on Jesus manner, we become a new creation when we become ''born again'' .. It is who we become 24 hrs a day 7 days a week .. It is by faith and becomes our ''way'' .. We love and study the Word to know the mind of Christ .. We become dependable of sorts and known to others as Christians even in our imperfection.. I admire your zeal Bro.Tan and you are not wrong but you are in process like we all are .. Most all Christians here are ''baptised'' . I wouldn't mind being baptised again because I had no clue the first time what it really meant compared to now but, God knew from the start .. So I'm saying ''of course we will have works because of our new way'' just like we had works before we found the Lord and salvation, it has become our new way through faith only .. Each Christian will or should have their own ministry of sorts no matter how great or insignificant we judge them .. If you think we should all be subject to your ideals then pray more .. Luke 4:16 states ''as was his custom'' and when asked what did Jesus say were the commandments ? He summed them up as to what they meant .. If you want to love Christians more then take your preaching more to the streets or door to door , you might try some drug infested areas or just get you some good anti-christ persecution .. You may find yourself learning the true meaning of sanctuary when you make it to church and being around God fearing ''not perfect Christians'' again . Then go out all the next week with the same passion and do it again, just you and Jesus out of love and concern for lost souls and you may get beat up but gain a new love for those who love Jesus like you do .. Anybody can preach to the choir .. You can do it Bro, get out there and shine your light in the darkness .. Be a doer not a hearer and I know you are .. A great point in my walk came in prayer when God told me ''if you want to see it done then do it yourself'' .. God bless Bro ..
th1b.taylor
Member
I'll say it again WRONG! There is context and order in the Word and on must forget all of that to arrive at your opinion because that is not what your selected text says, at all. One must believe as the Theif on the cross did and if it is available and if it is possible they should bI go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. be baptized. If they have a Trach in their throat when they convert, in your personal theology, they are Hel bound and I tell you, "No, it says, first if they believe and Jesus, being the Perfect Man did not splash when He spoke, His sentence structure is always perfect. If you will, just, pick up a copy of the Nave's Topical Bible and then do the study on Baptism the navy Chaplin, Naves compiled you will see from the Scripture that iit is possible to be Indwelt by the Holy Spirit and thereby saved without the Water. If a person is not saved before they go under the water, all they did was to get their body and hair wet,
Jim Parker
Member
Jesus commanded that ALL disciples be baptized. (Mat 28:19) I have no idea why someone of your solid and unwavering faith would say it is not necessary to do what Jesus commanded be done.
From the beginning of the Church ALL believers were baptized and complete immersion was not necessary if it was not possible.
Baptism in the Didache (1st Century Catechitical Instruction)
Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism. And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.
iLOVE
Member
Those good works must be produced by the Holy Spirit only! Any other works is dead works (rotten fruit). The story of Martha and Mary teaches us that Martha was doing a good thing but not the best thing. Many Christians are eating from the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil [Gen. 2:17] (doing a good thing but not the best thing). We must understand that Christian disciplines does not give the Christian victory over sin, the world, the flesh, and the Devil. Faith that is placed and maintained exclusively in Christ and the Cross, i.e., The Finished Work, i.e., The Blood of Jesus, will allow the work of the Holy Spirit to produce proper works and righteousness [1 Cor. 3:11-15] . This is why it is called "The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2)."
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th1b.taylor
Member
Jim,
I'm sorry you're, obviously neither Baptist nor Pentecostal but considers any sprinkling to be baptism and largely, I was addressing that large crowd of believers. Not another soul and if I will not argue Baptism being more of a heart thing with those pastors, I'm not inclined to debate someone looking to argue over it.
You have a good day but no thank you.
If we truly love God, then we will obey, “Every word" that proceeds out of the mouth of God, because we know that man shall not live by bread alone (Matthew 4:4). Baptism is one of those words. In order to be baptized, certain events must take place: Repent, and give up a lifestyle where sin has dominion, (ruler ship) over you. Sin according to 1 John 3:4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression (breaking) of the law. You must be taught "The Word", before you can adhere to God's commandments (judgments\statues). These laws are found in the Holy Bible; beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation. You must believe what the bible says and finally, you must confess that Jesus is Lord. Once this has been accomplished, you are qualified to be baptized in the name of Jesus.
In the scriptures its written in Proverbs 3: 5 ¶ Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. 7 ¶ Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the Lord, and depart from evil.
I teach and preach the uncut word of God, pay close attention to what Jesus says in (Matt. 7:21-23) (v.21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father, which is in heaven. You mean you must do more than call on the name of the Lord to enter into the kingdom of heaven? (Which will be set up on this earth)? (v.22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? (v.23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Now this is not the harlot, the thief, or the murder, these are religious people; some had the power to cast out devils. And what did they put before the Lord? Their works! It’s obvious that their iniquity overrode their wonderful works. But they put their works on the table before the Lord, that’s what you are going to be judged by, your works!
It’s easy for people to say how much they love the Lord, they may be able to deceive man, but God knows the mind. Many profess they know God, but in their works they deny him everyday. Paul said in (Titus 1:16) They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him; being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Yea, most people are talking about how they know God with their lips, but by they works they are doing something totally different. The Lord God commanded people to remember the Sabbath day (which is the seventh day of the week) to keep it holy and people deny him to his face by saying “I go to church on Sunday (the first day of the week) because Paul broke bread on Sunday”. Paul said in (Gal. 6:3-5, 7) (v.3) For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. (v.4) But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. The book says let every man prove his own work, and if your work is good then you will rejoice in it. (v.5) For every man shall bear his own burden. That’s right; every man must bear his own burden. You mean you thought that all you had to do was confess the name of Jesus and that was it? Brothers and sisters you must work to get salvation. (v.7) Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. God is not to be played with. Whatsoever you plant, that’s what you are going to reap. Be it good works unto eternal life, or evil works unto eternal damnation. The choice is yours, and your works belong to you.
th1b.taylor
Member
And because of Matt 7:21-23 are there Brujac and I fear for your Eternal Destination, we seek to help you but you continue attempting to stir up a silly and childless internet fight. Son, I am a 73 year old War Veteran trying to help you not throw you8r life away on a False Gospel when the truth is right in front of your eyes.
Jim Parker
Member
I don't know where you got that Idea.
I certainly didn't suggest that "any sprinkling" was a baptism.
I did give you the oldest document from the ancient Church, dating from the time of the contemporaries of the apostles or, at least, their disciples, which states that pouring is an acceptable method.
When people say that baptism is not necessary for salvation they are saying that obeying Christ is not necessary for salvation. That is a lie from the pit of hell. THe devil does not want believers to obey God.
So, I don't consider identifying the lie from the pit of hell that believers don't have to be baptized as being silly or childish.
(1) I'm not your son.
(2) I'm a 72 year old veteran. (whoopie - me and 10 million other guys and gals)
Being a veteran isn't worth a hill of beans for understanding the scriptures.
Neither does being in your seventies.
Some people in their 70s, 80s, or 90s haven't learned a thing since they were 10.
Having graduated from seminary (Fuller) with a graduate degree in theology does help.
I did that. Did you?
(3) I'm not throwing anything away; I'm telling you what Jesus commanded.
He commanded that you be baptized. (Mat 28:19) You say it's not necessary.
He also said "If you love me, keep my commandments." (Jhn 14:15) You're saying we don't have to.
He also said that, if you don't do as He commands then don't call Him your Lord. (Luk 6:46) You're ignoring that.
So, you do as you please. Obey Him or ignore His command. It's your funeral.
(4) The necessity of being baptized in spelled out in so many words multiple times in the New Testament.
I have posted them for you before.
I can post them for you again if you are interested in seeing what the scripture tells us about the requirement to be baptized.
Your choice.
brujaq
Member
Jim , why are you so bitter and doesn't the Word say in the latter days ''who so ever calls on the name of the Lord ''Jesus'' shall be saved'' .. I've led a lot of folks to the Lord in prayer and profession of faith .. Do you preach they must get baptised right then ?
brujaq
Member
Good stuff Bro Tan
I've been baptised in water and years later baptised in the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands, it took about an hr before I began speaking in tongues, I had to tarry a little bit .. But I was saved the instant I believed before I ever started going to church or knew anything except it was revealed to me that Jesus is who he says he is and the gospel true, I almost got knocked down where I stood ..
Deuteronomy 25:4 kjv
You shall not muzzle the ox when it treads out the grain.
When we speak of obeying commandments found in ordinances, I like this scripture. We do no need an ox to keep this. Careful reading of the New Testament gives us the modern way to keep this word active.
And
When we then see the concept of converting the law into inward / higher level actions, We see a lot of the Law take on a new meaning for us.
eddif
You shall not muzzle the ox when it treads out the grain.
When we speak of obeying commandments found in ordinances, I like this scripture. We do no need an ox to keep this. Careful reading of the New Testament gives us the modern way to keep this word active.
And
When we then see the concept of converting the law into inward / higher level actions, We see a lot of the Law take on a new meaning for us.
eddif
Exactly.
Now we come to the Sabbath.
Under the law of Moses, those who violated the Sabbath were put to death.
Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Exodus 31:15
Under the law of Christ, Paul taught this -
- He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. Romans 14:5-10
again Paul deals with the law of the Sabbath, as well as food laws.
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Colossians 2:16-17
The Sabbath is a shadow of things to come.
Christ is the reality, the substance that cast’s the shadow.
JLB
While that is where we will ultimately go. Do you not think that the ox scriptures are better for setting up the concept?
Or
The parable of the sower sets up the concept of ground being men’s hearts - etc.
The sabbath is better understood after the ox and sower IMHO.
Now we have it all out there. Several beans in a vessel and mixed meats in a pot.
eddif