How do you believe in Jesus, someone who you cannot see?

Discussion in 'Questions for Christians (Q&A)' started by zdanman, Dec 30, 2016.

  1. th1b.taylor

    th1b.taylor Member

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    I know, I am ignored a lot when I try to get folks grounded theologically. When I was still teaching the Grumpy Old Mens Class needed a Teacher and I was drafted. Before I was teaching it six months the eleven member class was reduced to three attendees and me. I wanted them to give up the Coffee Clutch Gossip Sessions and to study so we could discuss the Theology involved with the lessons and the class njever grew beyond five members because folks are lazy and do Lip Service to God. And then, I suspect one or two have set me on ignore because I want them to become serious about God.
     
  2. ezra

    ezra Member

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    the days of sound teaching is trying to be replaced with just highlighting certain things in scripture. i hate to say it but in our adult class this morn. our teacher kept drifting off and not even touching the meat of each verse
     
  3. Wrg1405

    Wrg1405 Member

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    I think also it's because people want you/us to live their Christian life for them.
    Rather than dig deep I'll let you do it and tell me.
    From bible study to prayer.
    Unless God is a quick fix then they just sit back. It's all about taking.
     
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  4. th1b.taylor

    th1b.taylor Member

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    Yes, I prayed, all the while I taught for those men that left. Since I was planted in my bed I have still prayed for them but the individual they follow still dislikes me and they trust in his casual adherence gospel and moved away from our fellowship when a more fundamental Preacher was called to lead our body.

    We are living in a sad but also exciting time for the Church Body.
     
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  5. th1b.taylor

    th1b.taylor Member

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    Yes, I agree.
     
  6. Wrg1405

    Wrg1405 Member

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    Hopefully I will be able to explain what I want to say. If I don't do a good job then hopefully someone will help me out.
    I'm not going to into the differences of Christianity and Islam.

    In Islam Jesus is considered a prophet, the penultimate prophet of Allah, before the final prophet Muhammad. Therefore they consider Jesus as Muslim.

    Jesus himself was a prophet (a spokesman for and behalf of God) but he was and is the final prophet of God.
    A prophet not only spoke on behalf of God but also performed miracles/healings and foretold the future as revealed by God.

    Furthermore there are prophecies in the Old Testemant about what God had in mind to restore man to himself.

    The minute Adam and Eve rebelled God revealed, spoke himself of himself that at some point he would deal with our rebellion once for all. Then through out the Old Testemant there are many many more prophecies from people in the Old Testemant that were fulfilled through Jesus.

    When Jesus came upon the scene he fulfilled the above, spoke on behalf of God, revealed the Father, performed miracles and revealed the future, the future for him and what would happen as a result of that. His death and resurrection.

    Jesus was promised through the lineage of Abram and his son Issac who was born of his wife Sarah and not Ishmael who was born of Hagar (his concubine)

    The prophecies from the Old Testemant of Jesus and Gods plan for restoration are fulfilled in Jesus himself the Son of God through the lineage of Abram when God called him.

    There are 300+ prophecies in the Old Testemant about Jesus detailing his conception, his birth, his birth place his lineage, his coming, his death and how it happened.

    Luke 18:31-33
    Jesus Predicts His Death and Resurrection

    Taking the twelve disciples aside, Jesus said, “Listen, we’re going up to Jerusalem, where all the predictions of the prophets concerning the Son of Man will come true. He will be handed over to the Romans, and he will be mocked, treated shamefully, and spit upon. They will flog him with a whip and kill him, but on the third day he will rise again.”

    and more importantly why?

    John 3:16-18
    “For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him.
    “There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son.

    The result

    John 16:7-9
    But in fact, it is best for you that I go away, because if I don’t, the Advocate won’t come. If I do go away, then I will send him to you. And when he comes, he will convict the world of its sin, and of God’s righteousness, and of the coming judgment. The world’s sin is that it refuses to believe in me.

    Notice what the sin Jesus is talking about. It's unbelief in him. The ultimate/final prophet.

    Jesus said if you have seen me then you have seen the Father. He also said to those who had seen him in a physical sense.

    John 20:29
    Then Jesus told him, “You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me.”

    So I would like to reverse it in a sense.

    If you have seen God beleive he is real. Then take time to research the histocracy of Jesus. There are many references outside of the New Testemant. Consider though that the New Testemant lays bare the doubts and fears of those that had seen him, perform miracles then crucified then slunk away as frightened people. His disciples did this, yet something happened that caused them to go out into the world and eventually they were killed for.

    If his resurrection was not real why would they die for it? If it was real they would die for it.

    The God of Abram offers forgiveness of sins through Jesus and the Holy Spirit as a deposit of your inheritance, eternal life.

    The god of Muhammad doesn't.

    The God of Abram came down to earth lift you up through Jesus.
    The god of Muhammad doesn't.

    Jesus said

    John 17:23-26
    I am in them and you are in me. May they experience such perfect unity that the world will know that you sent me and that you love them as much as you love me. Father, I want these whom you have given me to be with me where I am. Then they can see all the glory you gave me because you loved me even before the world began!
    “O righteous Father, the world doesn’t know you, but I do; and these disciples know you sent me. I have revealed you to them, and I will continue to do so. Then your love for me will be in them, and I will be in them.”

    Jesus will be in you, through the Holy Spirit that's when the relationship starts.
     
  7. Wrg1405

    Wrg1405 Member

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    Ashamed to say I've been there.

    I relied on other people's faith for me, mainly because I thought they had an understanding or anointing as such that I could never have, a maybe through them I could have a relationship with God.

    Also because I did not feel worthy or loved by God then maybe someone else would hear from God for me.
    Life's experiences and hurts and pain.

    I came to realise after a long long time (25 years) my relationship with God is through Jesus. Not my pastor or someone else i put on pedalstool.

    God laid me up for a week, bad back. Lying on the sofa and he I really felt he started to talk to me about stuff in my life, stuff that hurt me that I wouldn't give up. He said to me "Let us deal with it, I said no, this went on for about half an hour.

    Then it was like big voice in my head that said "BILL WHAT PART OF US DO YOU NOT GET, I HAVE SAID US, THATS YOU AND ME TRUST ME, I AM YOUR FATHER'

    Since then I've sought him, seeking to establish a relationship with him and boy has he fulfilled his side.

    I do think we need to encourage people to seek God in a relational sense to work together. Also allow the space to talk to Godly people if they are struggling
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2017
  8. Winnie

    Winnie Member

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    For me, it is the way He is able to change me. When I spend time with Him, in His Word especially. The apostle Paul says, 'we are being transformed into the same image, from glory to glory.'
    He has filled me with His love, on plenty of occasions notably, and seriously, there nothing whatsoever that compares with Him on this earth. People have been delivered from bondages such as drugs and alcohol, you name it and 'testify' their stories. The testimonies are for us, to know.
    I know that He desires intensely to called your Father. He, in Christ Jesus, really is 'where it's at.'
    This world will pass away, you will pass away. Then what?
    So then we KNOW. 'His Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are children of God.'
    It also says, 'the Word of God is tested.' Yes it is and is proven to be true!
    So, don't despise it. Humble yourself before Him and you will not be dissapointed.
    Sorry my scripture quotations have no scripture attached to them. I know them, just not where they are right away when they pop into my head.
     
  9. Jim Parker

    Jim Parker Member

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    Neither is there any evidence of George Washington, Christopher Columbus, Galileo, Plato, Aristotle and millions of others except what we have from history. I bet you don't have any problem believing them to be real people. :)
     
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  10. Mike

    Mike Member

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    Cold Case Christianity is a great ongoing series for people who aren't convinced to watch or listen to. I just want to mention he has a weekly podcast to subscribe to if you like listening to podcasts.

    Aside from scripture itself, if say its the best ongoing resource I've seen for seekers or doubters.
     
  11. Mike

    Mike Member

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    Reminder here that we are to direct all comments toward the OP and not each other here in the Q4C Forum. Please see the description of it for details. Thank you.
     
  12. Edward

    Edward Member

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    That Christmas movie had it right. Seeing isn't believing, believing is seeing.

    The evidence is in our faith. It is our faith. The evidence of things unseen.

    Would I be going too far if I said the majority of this board membership does not believe, even though they say they do?

    Can one talk, read, and pray and still not believe? You bet they can.

    You have to get it through your head that the, seen natural world is not real. The unseen spirit world is real.

    The minute that you accept the natural world as real, you're in unbelief of God.

    The difference between believers and non-believers is this walk. Do you look to the world for your proofs? No wonder you don't believe in Jesus.

    The minute you start walking the walk, you begin seeing. :wink
     
  13. Chopper

    Chopper Member

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    zdanman, where are you?? Are you one of those ghost writers that come her and don't come back? There is some very good responses that have been posted to help you. I hope you will return and dialogue with us....I have a good answer to your question about not seeing Jesus. I'm not going to waste my time if you're just a ghost writer.
     
  14. JLB

    JLB Member

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    Jesus is the God of Abraham, who became flesh, and dwelt here on earth, as a Man.

    He loves you, and paid the price for your sins.

    He is your Savior, and Lord.

    He created all things.

    You will know Him, when His Spirit dwells in you.


    Do you believe Jesus is the Christ, the Savior?




    JLB
     
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  15. IncredibleTransformation

    IncredibleTransformation Member

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    I believe in Him because I have seen Him. I see Him in a newborn baby, I see him in the beauty of nature, I see and feel Him all around me. His touch is everywhere.
     
  16. Free

    Free Staff Member Moderator

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    What do you mean by "the seen natural world is not real"?
     
  17. Edward

    Edward Member

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    Just like it sounds. As in...an illusion.

    Sin is darkness and blinds us.
     
  18. Free

    Free Staff Member Moderator

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    What do you mean by "illusion"? Do you have Scripture to back that up?
     
  19. Edward

    Edward Member

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    Yes I do! Not only that, but secular scientist's have said the same thing. Gimme a few to get my references in order and I'll come edit them into this post.

    Edit
    Actually there's hints all throughout the Bible about the eternal realm, aka the Kingdom realm. I'll start with 2 Corinthians 4: 18
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
  20. Edward

    Edward Member

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    The Bible tells us that a spiritual world does exist, and we may sometimes encounter realities from that realm—both good and bad (Heb. 13:2; Eph. 6:12). Because of this, we are encouraged to be watchful, prayerful, and prepared. Just as God rules the world we see, He also rules the unseen world.

    Here's an article by the professed non-believers in God camp.
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-we-living-in-a-computer-simulation/#

    There was an older better one I'm trying to find, iirc, it's from June 2005 Scientific American which stated that mathematically speaking, with regard to the laws of physics not being finite and constant, that, that would indicate that our "reality" is but a shadow of a larger reality, which we can not see.
    I'll try to find it.
     

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