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PHIL121
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What Solo said...
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Soma-Sight
Guest
What do you call repentance?????
Repent and be saved....
Confess and believe.....
??????????
S
Soma-Sight
Guest
The "sinners prayer" is not some linguistic formula set in stone...
It varies for each person.
The cosmic Truth behind the prayer is the need for redemption in a flawless God's eyes and the desire to change your heart from evil to the Light.
That is how I view the "prayer".
M
Merry Menagerie
Guest
Soma-Sight said:
To turn around! (change mind)
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Stejaka
Guest
All right, I'm a little confused. Is this "sinner's prayer" a prayer like The Lord's Prayer - a prayer written and spoken verbatim - or is it just a prayer where you confess your sins, having no exact structure or set monologue? I'm thinking the latter, but I'm not too certain.
Blazin Bones
Member
Soma-Sight said:
Soma, even some atheists pray. why then do they not follow after Christ?
I would agree that one must ask God for his grace, however, there is not one special prayer that does such.
Vic C.
Member
The Lord's prayer can be verbatim, but which translation would be the correct one? Some say "debts" while others say "trasspasses". :-? I understand the Lord's prayer to be an outline of how we should come to the Lord in prayer, rather than it being a prayer in itself. I'm a bit self-conscious about it becoming ritualistic.Stejaka said:
I view the so-called "sinner's prayer" the same way. When we come to the Lord professing our faith in Christ, His acceptance of us and forgivness of our transgressions, it has to come from the heart, not some canned prayer.
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Soma-Sight
Guest
If an atheist prays and is sincere...................
He/She is not an atheist!
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Stejaka
Guest
Vic said:
I agree with you about the Lord's Prayer being an example of how one should pray. So, this "sinner's prayer" is more a confession of one's sins, and the asking of forgivness for the sins. I'm not really sure where the debate comes into this whole convesation then. I mean, in order to be forgiven we need to acknowledge that we did something sinful; without the acknowledgment there would be no need for forgivness. If we don't know we did something wrong, how can we ask for forgivness for it? I'm of the belief that God has the power to bless me with what I need, but I have to ask it of him in faith and He'll help out. So if what I need is forgivness, why wouldn't I ask it of Him? You see, I'm not really sure what there is to debate.
Blazin Bones
Member
Soma-Sight said:
This is true, however the point is anyone can pray. If there's no sincerety in it, it does them no good. That is why the idea of counting the times we've prayed the sinners prayer is useless because we can not look on a heart and know whether the prayer was sincere or not.
K
Khristeeanos
Guest
Reciting the "Sinners Prayer" will save no one.
We must obey the Bible's plan on salvation, not man's.
When forming our doctrine, we need to take the entire New Covenant Scriptures and not leave anything out.
We must obey the Bible's plan on salvation, not man's.
When forming our doctrine, we need to take the entire New Covenant Scriptures and not leave anything out.
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Soma-Sight
Guest
??????????
:-?
Is not repentance of sin and acceptance of Christ's Will what the Gospel IS about????
Is not the sinner's prayer a mechanism to humilty and entrance into the Kingdom of God?
Blazin Bones
Member
Soma, Scripture teachers that we are saved by grace through our faith. Not Prayer. The "sinners prayer" is a way to tell God that we wish to serve him, and it's one of many.
M
Merry Menagerie
Guest
Soma-Sight said:
No its not. Repenting and believing in Jesus is - not reciting a prayer.
Repentance means to 'change mind'. Not 'recite a prayer and beg God's forgiveness etc'.
M
Merry Menagerie
Guest
And while we are on the subject of Repentance - we must also remember that repentence is granted by God.
Act 11
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
1 Tim 2
25 in meekness correcting them that oppose themselves; if peradventure God may give them repentance unto the knowledge of the truth
This means God granted to men something they could not in themselves do. God is the one who changes the mind of people because they are unable to do it. The meaning of the word repent is to 'change mind' - not weep and wail at God's feet begging for forgiveness. It's something that God must grant you in order for you to do. A simple prayer is not sufficient to do this - it must be by the work of God.
Act 11
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
1 Tim 2
25 in meekness correcting them that oppose themselves; if peradventure God may give them repentance unto the knowledge of the truth
This means God granted to men something they could not in themselves do. God is the one who changes the mind of people because they are unable to do it. The meaning of the word repent is to 'change mind' - not weep and wail at God's feet begging for forgiveness. It's something that God must grant you in order for you to do. A simple prayer is not sufficient to do this - it must be by the work of God.
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Stejaka
Guest
Merry Menagerie said:[quote="Soma-Sight"26bf]
??????????
:-?
Is not repentance of sin and acceptance of Christ's Will what the Gospel IS about????
Is not the sinner's prayer a mechanism to humilty and entrance into the Kingdom of God?
No its not. Repenting and believing in Jesus is - not reciting a prayer.
Repentance means to 'change mind'. Not 'recite a prayer and beg God's forgiveness etc'.[/quote
26bf]I think you're just about right. But it's through prayer that repentance can take place. You need to ask forgivness of God for your sins, and you speak with God through your prayers. See my previous post about this. Also: Acts 8:22-"Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee." The Bible states we need to pray for forgivness of our sins. Now, I don't think that means recite a specific prayer, where the only thing you change is the sins you commit day to day or whatever. But seeking forgivness is very much a part of the true gospel.
Edit: Merry, you posted as I was typing mine. I agree with you there. It's not the prayer alone that will ensure forgivness, but the actual turning away from whatever it is you did wrong.
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Merry Menagerie
Guest
Actually no the bible states that Simon had to pray for forgivness. It was an instruction for Simon.
But the actually commandments were 'Repent, be baptised...' nothing about praying for forgiveness. Once you repent - forgiveness is given.
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Stejaka
Guest
Jonah 4:2 - "And he prayed unto the LORD, and said, I pray thee, O LORD, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil."
Jonah was in a situation where his only recourse was prayer. He had done something wrong and he knew that this was his punishment for doing that (i.e., being eaten by a fish), and that he had to repent for what he did. He couldn't just repent and be spit up by the fish - he had to pray to God and ask him for forgivness, and the forgivness would cause him to be set free. If there's no recognition of the sin, what's humbling about the experience? Repentance is a process whereby we can be forgiven of our sins. The process starts with recognition of the sin to the person you commited it. If you do something that necessitates repentance, than you've sinned against God, from whom you need to ask forgivness.
Now, the Jonah situation was unique, indeed. But I think it demonstrates the point that we need to ask God for forgivness. Changing our actions or our minds is us holding up our end of the bargain. God will forgive the sins after we show that we really mean to change. Man is not saved by grace alone. We need to do so much work to try and stay clean, and to repent often, and when we can't do it all - because no one man can - then that's where Jesus steps in. He makes up for what we can't do ourselves.
Jonah was in a situation where his only recourse was prayer. He had done something wrong and he knew that this was his punishment for doing that (i.e., being eaten by a fish), and that he had to repent for what he did. He couldn't just repent and be spit up by the fish - he had to pray to God and ask him for forgivness, and the forgivness would cause him to be set free. If there's no recognition of the sin, what's humbling about the experience? Repentance is a process whereby we can be forgiven of our sins. The process starts with recognition of the sin to the person you commited it. If you do something that necessitates repentance, than you've sinned against God, from whom you need to ask forgivness.
Now, the Jonah situation was unique, indeed. But I think it demonstrates the point that we need to ask God for forgivness. Changing our actions or our minds is us holding up our end of the bargain. God will forgive the sins after we show that we really mean to change. Man is not saved by grace alone. We need to do so much work to try and stay clean, and to repent often, and when we can't do it all - because no one man can - then that's where Jesus steps in. He makes up for what we can't do ourselves.
M
Merry Menagerie
Guest
I have never prayed for forgiveness - does this mean that I'm unsaved?
No it does not!
Again - one does NOT have to pray for forgiveness to be forgiven. This is NOT an instruction in the bible for us to do in order to be forgiven. The instruction is 'repent' - that is all.
Some people feel the need to pray for forgiveness but I don't think it has anything to do with them receiving it - rather I think it has something to do with their own piece of mind. Jonah could do nothing but pray - so he did. And it would have given him piece of mind and a sense that he was 'doing something' rather than sitting there feeling sorry for himself. If he had repented and not prayed - I believe he still would have been forgiven.
No it does not!
Again - one does NOT have to pray for forgiveness to be forgiven. This is NOT an instruction in the bible for us to do in order to be forgiven. The instruction is 'repent' - that is all.
Some people feel the need to pray for forgiveness but I don't think it has anything to do with them receiving it - rather I think it has something to do with their own piece of mind. Jonah could do nothing but pray - so he did. And it would have given him piece of mind and a sense that he was 'doing something' rather than sitting there feeling sorry for himself. If he had repented and not prayed - I believe he still would have been forgiven.
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Stejaka
Guest
Repentance is a process. Without the acknowledgment of the sin to whom the sin was commited (i.e., God, through prayer), then there's no need to repent at all. But I think we're just going to go on beating our respective dead horses, here, Merry, so I think agreeing to disagree is best. I hate it when I have to read the same argument fourteen times.