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    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

How much is enough?

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Nothing. You can't even repent or call on the name of the Lord unless God allows you to do so.

It's all Christ Jesus...none of you.

Cyg,

I disagree, and would like to know what Scripture you base that on. This is a theology forum, not an op-ed, and requires you to substantiate claims when asked.

The LORD requires repentence from disobedience, rather than allowing repentence (Jer 8:4-7, Eze 14:6, 18:30-32, Dan 9:13, Joell 2:12-13), and He desires all to call on His Name, "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the LORD Will be delivered . . ." (Joel 2:32 a), and "For everyone, 'whoever may call on the name of the Lord will be saved' " (Rom 10:13).
 
Cyg,

I disagree, and would like to know what Scripture you base that on. This is a theology forum, not an op-ed, and requires you to substantiate claims when asked.

.

John 6:65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
 
Because they were grumbling. They didn't believe who Jesus said he was.
Jesus told them, you don't believe because the Father didn't draw you nor give you the ability o believe.

John 6:64-65 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him. And he said, “Because of this I said to you that no one can come to me unless it has been granted to him by the Father.”

The definite article shows that it was because Jesus "knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him" is why He'd said it.
 
How much is enough? That is a question for those that believe we merit or earn salvation. How much "good" must we do?
For the OSNAS posters.....How much good works, merit, following Christ must we do to remain in salvation?

Do we need to do one act of "good" a day? 20 acts of good a week? 1,000 acts of good a month? What's the number?
Just the right amount is enouhh
 
I guess this is where working out our own salvation with fear and trembling comes in. We're taught to study to show ourselves approved. So perhaps when we study enough, then the Father grants more desire to know Jesus more in ones heart? and not before?

This would weed out those who are Christian in name only and do not do the things which Jesus said to do. The same will be there saying Lord Lord didn't we, blah blah blah?

A man is defined by his actions. Isn't that right? If your actions are those of being an ambassador of Christ everywhere you go, then the Spirit of the Lord would be within you and you would lead a much different life.

It seems hard to combine the kingdom of God and everyday natural life for the most part. We have study time, church time, and so forth, and then every day life where we have to go to work and do things for the logistical things of life.

Seems like growing up around the church would make it easier, but for those immersed in life before coming to know the Lord...how to mesh the two? To make a living and do the Lords work at the same time without either one hindering the other.

Or everybody quit their job and just go onto the street and begin proclaiming the gospel to everyone who will listen? Let the Lord rain down manna for us to eat. I get the feeling that if we want to walk in and see the types of things happen that the OT Patriarchs did...that we have to walk in the same faith that they did. Like Abraham for instance. If God came down today and asked someone to offer their son to him, he wouldn't be able to find anyone who would obey.
 
Or everybody quit their job and just go onto the street and begin proclaiming the gospel to everyone who will listen? Let the Lord rain down manna for us to eat. I get the feeling that if we want to walk in and see the types of things happen that the OT Patriarchs did...that we have to walk in the same faith that they did. Like Abraham for instance. If God came down today and asked someone to offer their son to him, he wouldn't be able to find anyone who would obey.


Oh,
Many people have done these things and worse. Adoniram Judson was one such failure. While George Lyle was a success.
Millerites are another example of failure....so was the Children's Crusade.
Just because these things aren't heralded doesn't mean that they haven't happened.

Many stories of guys who thought that God gifted them with tongues just to find out that God didn't (after a long, difficult journey) and now have an impossible task of trying to get home.

"Called" and "Chosen" are rather unique terms in the Bible and their true definitions are not found in Webster's.
 
How much is enough? That is a question for those that believe we merit or earn salvation. How much "good" must we do?
For the OSNAS posters.....How much good works, merit, following Christ must we do to remain in salvation?

Do we need to do one act of "good" a day? 20 acts of good a week? 1,000 acts of good a month? What's the number?
I take it OSNAS = Once Saved Not Always Saved?
That type thinking is typically found in the nominal xtian circle. People who claim Christ's title but are not actually Christians.
As an example. There's this TV show called, The Real Housewives of OC". (*OC California)
One of the women is just a terrible person. Caty,a gossip, a schemer. All the sudden in one episode a few years ago she "found Jesus".
She looks at the camera's , gives the bird salute with both hands, and says, I'm saved b***es!
No, she wasn't/isn't. She's damned. But she's the perfect example watching her behavior on the show as to what it means to be a nominal Christian. (name only Christian)

The new testament contains Jesus teachings concerning the plan of the Father. No one comes to God's grace save God calls them , their soul, to Himself. Remember, Jesus was God. Jesus, Immanuel "God with us", as he was to be called when God's angel Gabriel approached Mary with God's plan and purpose for the birth of our Savior, was God arrived in human form, indwelt by his own Holy Spirit, to deliver the new covenant to the world.
God calls our souls to repentance. We're in this world that belongs to the evil one. The antithesis of righteousness. Satan roams this world like a hungry lion seeking souls to devour.
God calls us out of that and to himself, his Son. We repent, we are redeemed, reborn, in the spirit of righteousness. Renewed. And God remembers our sins no more. And as that new creation, we are no longer the sinner we once were. We're redeemed in Christ. And the redeemed do not make a habit of sinning.
No one can take us from Christ's hand. Because we did nothing of our own in order to find ourselves there. God called our name that he knew before he created this world. Our name written in the Lamb's book of life prior to our being born. How then, when God knew us before humans existed and called us by name to repentance, can we in our egoism and pride think we can undo his will for our salvation?
Can we be un-reborn? Un-cleansed by the baptism? Can we evict the Holy Spirit that indwelt us? Can we be unredeemed by our own choice? Can we tell God who called us to him that he didn't know us after all? That he made a mistake? That that one he called to his son is more powerful in the will to leave his son than God is that called us to him? No.

However, we can example ourselves as that real housewife I mentioned for the purpose of making this point. We can be a nominal Christian, one that was never really changed at all by God's precious Holy Spirit. The name we claim God knows of us being a counterfeit delusion on our part. That type person is that which claims they're a Christian and they still party, sleaze around, commit all sorts of wicked acts and then thinks the whole time, they're saved. Because Jesus saved everyone.
You'll find that type thinking in those who think in straight lines. They hear about the scriptures but don't read them. Or they read the scriptures piecemeal to find something that affirms their errant ideas. They don't see the big picture in the parables that are there.

Remember when Peter was talking about disciples that were with Christ but then walked away? That's the parable reporting what a nominal Christian is. They were with us but they were not one of us. One with us. 1 John 2.
Jesus didn't die to bring us transient life that we can walk away from because our will is greater than the Father that sent him for us. To die for us so as to bring the covenant to fulfillment.
Don't ever let anyone tell you you can lose your salvation. God told you you cannot. God would have to revoke the purchase of your soul with his only begotten son's blood for that to happen.

 
Scriptural proof that Christians cannot lose their salvation
by Matt Slick
5/10/14

Is there Scriptural proof that Christians cannot lose their salvation? Yes, there is; and it is found in the words of Christ.

  • John 8:29, "And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him."
  • John 6:39, "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day."
From these two verses we can learn several things. First, those who are Christians have been given to the Son by the Father. We know this is the case because Jesus said in John 6:37, "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will certainly not cast out." God the Father has given a select group of people to the Son. Not all people are given to the Son. For more information on this, see What does it mean that the Father gave people to the Son?

Continues here
 
Maybe I'm wrong but if I am understanding the position of OSNAS correctly, the answer to your question is, only one - remain in Christ.
Given Eph 1:13,14, which says:
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.,

I don't see how anyone would even think that one who has been sealed with the Holy Spirit, who is a deposit which guarantees our inheritance can be removed from being "in Christ".

Yes, there are a few verses about "abiding in Him" and warning about being "severed from Him". Sure, and those verses can easily be understood as a reference to being in fellowship with Him, which IS a very biblical concept.

But given the very explicit wording of Epoh 1:14, and zero verses about actually being removed from being "in Him" by any specific means, it seems such an idea does not originate from Scripture.
 
I think that's the best answer to the question. Next will be: What does it mean/look like to remain in Christ?
Great question.
Eph 1:13,14
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

So, this is what it looks like:
1. sealed with the PROMISED Holy Spirit as a result of having believed.
2. the Holy Spirit is a DEPOSIT which GUARANTEES our INHERITANCE
3. the guarantee of our inheritance is UNTIL the REDEMPTION of God's POSSESSION.
4. so, once sealed, always sealed. OSAS

It seems to me that when someone puts their faith in Christ, such faith remain to the end. It's not a one-time thing but an on-going, every present state of the heart. This is a sign of a true believer. When the Holy Spirit changes hearts, they are truly changed. True believers grow stronger in faith as time goes on.
But Jesus was specific about some who will "believe for a while" and then in time of testing/temptation, will fall away from the faith.

And Paul told Timothy that in later times, some will fall away (apostatize) from the faith (1 Tim 4:1). So, yes, it's quite possible for a true, saved, sealed, born again believer to cease to believe. The Bible plainly says so.

Yet, Jesus also was clear about recipients of eternal life in John 10:28. They shall never perish.
 
But Jesus was specific about some who will "believe for a while" and then in time of testing/temptation, will fall away from the faith.

And Paul told Timothy that in later times, some will fall away (apostatize) from the faith (1 Tim 4:1). So, yes, it's quite possible for a true, saved, sealed, born again believer to cease to believe. The Bible plainly says so.

If we don't grow in His grace and knowledge 2 Pet 3:18............we WILL fall away. And it will be in one of two ways.
1. Grieving the Spirit. Eph 4:30. A life of sin.

2. Quenching the Spirit.1 Thess 5:19. A life of human good/religion/self righteousness/evil.<-----which the majority of us revert back to.

BOTH are falling away from the faith. But the Lord Jesus Christ sealed us and said, "we will NEVER, NOT EVER PERISH." John 10:28.

The Bible,His word refutes the idea that believers WILL work,produce fruit,continue in the faith. His word says believers SHOULD produce fruit.
Eph 2:10~~King James Bible
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

His Grace is a FREE GIFT. Our 'divine' work is glorifying Him and may produce rewards for us. And if our work is from the flesh after salvation.....we may put ourselves under the heavy hand of discipline,HIS discipline.
Heb12~~5and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons,
“MY SON, DO NOT REGARD LIGHTLY THE DISCIPLINE OF THE LORD,
NOR FAINT WHEN YOU ARE REPROVED BY HIM;

The Idea that a believer WILL continue in the faith and WILL produce works that we can see.........Is logically concluding that works and personal faith are the objects of our salvation. And Christ is the object of our salvation.
 
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calvinist ?
I think John Calvin hadn't even been born yet when Jesus taught His disciples that He knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, which is why He said that no one can come to me unless it has been granted to him by the Father.

So no, I don't think Jesus was a Calvinist. But I'm sure Jesus knew from the beginning that John Calvin would believe. We can ask Him one day.



 
I think John Calvin hadn't even been born yet when Jesus taught His disciples that He knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, which is why He said that no one can come to me unless it has been granted to him by the Father.

So no, I don't think Jesus was a Calvinist. But I'm sure Jesus knew from the beginning that John Calvin would believe. We can ask Him one day.


i replied to wrong thread.....ignore that
 
How much is enough? That is a question for those that believe we merit or earn salvation. How much "good" must we do?
For the OSNAS posters.....How much good works, merit, following Christ must we do to remain in salvation?

Do we need to do one act of "good" a day? 20 acts of good a week? 1,000 acts of good a month? What's the number?

Check out Andy Stanley's sermon re "How good enough is good?" That's just it, there is no answer. Good is relative to everyone, that's why God gave us Jesus & took the merit system out of the picture. That settled, faith w/o works is not the right approach either. We must act as tho we are Christians, so look to Jesus' life & try to model yourself with your own situation in mind.
 
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