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    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

How to be saved.....

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I said to another poster:
"He's not going to ask me that question."

Maybe you missed my point.


You see, I DO what He tells me to do.


Of course we should take heed to ALL that He commands. But NOT for salvation. If heeding all His commands, then yes, it would be a works salvation system. Just like the condemned Pharisee religion.

And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? How do you read?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And he said to him, “You have answered right; do this, and you will live.” Luke 10: 25-28

So is this a works salvation system?
 
There is no question people learn from coming at a theological topic from different perspectives. However, nothing can be gleaned when one side does not recognize the omnipresent , sovereign, omnipotent, omni-genesis characteristics of the one God both sides are intending to discuss. God's is a Holy Spirit. His presence does not stop at Hell. Hell cannot keep God out. God created Hell and all its characteristics that are believed in. Hell is sourced from God. When God is sovereign and creator of all things for all time there is no place God cannot be. Because all things "be", because God made them to be.

It isn't an argument. It is God. Arguing God cannot be in Hell is not arguing the God of the Bible and his sovereignty.
Just as what cannot be learned from those that argue against eternal salvation is how to be saved.

I think you mean the grave don't you? Even in the grave/Sheol we are in his hand. Ps. 139:8-10

It would be nonsensical to say God is in the hell of fire he prepared for the devil and his angels.
 
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I think you mean the grave don't you? Even in the grave/Sheol we are in his hand. Ps. 139:8
Christianity is the continuation of the prophecies of Messiah in Judaism.
Jesus was a Jew. There was no fire and brimstone sulfur bottomless pit in Judaism.
Jesus taught from the foundation principles of God's word to the tribes. There is Sheol. The Jews had no concept of Hades or Hell as we believe it to be as Christians today. Jesus would not have taught of a place his people did not know, because his Father did not inspire the scrolls to speak of it.
Sheol, Hades, was the grave. Non-existence after life. To this day traditional Jews bury their dead in simple wooden boxes with holes drilled in the bottom to hasten decomposition.
Death without Christ, as Jesus taught in his ministry, referred and warned of Sheol if someone died without being saved, i.e. from Sheol, so as to instead have eternal life through the saving, from Sheol, grace of God the Father, through Jesus, who was God the Father.
 
That is for God to judge.
And He has and He's told us what His decision is for David and Abraham through Paul. The same Paul that teaches us that the penalty for the wicked is a penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his strength,

David was listed as one of the examples of those counted "righteous by faith" of OT saints in Romans 4. Not to mention the one who asked God the question in Psalm 139:7 yet didn't record an answer coming from God. Psalm 139 says zero about the final fate of those finally judged as wicked or if God is present in Hell. But I appreciate you posting it. 2 Thess 1:9 and the orher verses I posted do, however. Which you've simply not addressed.
 
I said to another poster:
"He's not going to ask me that question."
And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? How do you read?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And he said to him, “You have answered right; do this, and you will live.” Luke 10: 25-28

So is this a works salvation system?
No. Only if one wrongly assumes "you will live" refers to gaining eternal life will one think so.

But how does this passage relate to my response to the other poster? I'm not seeing any relevance.
 
Christianity is the continuation of the prophecies of Messiah in Judaism.
Jesus was a Jew. There was no fire and brimstone sulfur bottomless pit in Judaism.
Jesus taught from the foundation principles of God's word to the tribes. There is Sheol. The Jews had no concept of Hades or Hell as we believe it to be as Christians today. Jesus would not have taught of a place his people did not know, because his Father did not inspire the scrolls to speak of it.
Sheol, Hades, was the grave. Non-existence after life. To this day traditional Jews bury their dead in simple wooden boxes with holes drilled in the bottom to hasten decomposition.
Death without Christ, as Jesus taught in his ministry, referred and warned of Sheol if someone died without being saved, i.e. from Sheol, so as to instead have eternal life through the saving, from Sheol, grace of God the Father, through Jesus, who was God the Father.

Those who possess the Spirit know what the Psalm says. The Jews were not enlightened. It is for us to know. They were not given to know/ did not understand/ don't know to this day.
 
Those who possess the Spirit know what the Psalm says. The Jews were not enlightened. It is for us to know. They were not given to know/ did not understand/ don't know to this day.
So David was not a Jew then? And the Holy Spirit that informed David, inspired David to write the Psalms, did not know David was not a Jew? What faith was David that the Holy Spirit of God should inspire other than a member of his chosen people to write the Psalm?

And Jesus, a Jew, did not minister to Jews when he delivered the new covenant from the Father? And the first "Christians" were not Jewish converts? Which is why Saul of Tarsus held the cloak of converted Jew Stephen as he was stoned to death for apostasy?
Jesus was not a Christian. Do you know this? When he ascended to the Father he was God who had lived with us as Immanuel. And he was a Jew.
 
Psa_51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Isa_63:10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.
Isa_63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?
Exo 31:1
And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Exo 31:2 See, I have called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah:
Exo 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

Jdg_3:10 And the Spirit of the LORD came upon him, and he judged Israel, and went out to war: and the LORD delivered Chushanrishathaim king of Mesopotamia into his hand; and his hand prevailed against Chushanrishathaim.
there are more
 
So David was not a Jew then? And the Holy Spirit that informed David, inspired David to write the Psalms, did not know David was not a Jew? What faith was David that the Holy Spirit of God should inspire other than a member of his chosen people to write the Psalm?

And Jesus, a Jew, did not minister to Jews when he delivered the new covenant from the Father? And the first "Christians" were not Jewish converts? Which is why Saul of Tarsus held the cloak of converted Jew Stephen as he was stoned to death for apostasy?
Jesus was not a Christian. Do you know this? When he ascended to the Father he was God who had lived with us as Immanuel. And he was a Jew.

Right. Jesus wasn't a Christian. He was the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Gentiles receive the Holy Spirit too, the same Spirit who inspired David, so we understand David.
 
The truth that's clear is that even a Christian brother can indeed have misfortune, suffering or become lost "sick" by wandering from the truth and be considered as a sinner in need of repentance and The Father's discipline. And the elders of the church can participate with God through their faithful prayers, laying on of hands and anointing of oil; thus participating in the will of The Father in turning back the misfortune, suffering or the sickly to Him. Thus saving the lost misfortunate, suffering or sickly from lose of their soul in the 1st death. What's equally clear is that either with or without the elder's faithful prayers, a brother is a brother. And God will raise him up (even if He has to put him down to do it).

James 5:13-14 Is anyone among you suffering misfortune? He should pray. Is anyone cheerful? He should sing praise. Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the elders of the church and they should pray over him, anointing him with olive oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins he [a brother] will be forgiven.

It is blatantly obvious that James is talking about praying for physical misfortune suffering, sick and dying (their 1st death, not their 2nd) brothers in the church (for whatever reason they are misfortuned, suffering or sick).

Just as obvious as the fact that you cannot pray another un-repentant lost person into (or back into under your soteriology) salvation against their will or God's will. Our effective prayers are participating with God's work, to be sure (including God disciplinary actions upon His people, suffering/famine, sickness and even dying). That's James' point. He says zero about praying or anointing a lost person into salvation.

But either way (with our prayers or without them) The Father's will is done on Earth as it is in Heaven.

And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick ...James 5:16 Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous person accomplishes much.
...

Do you think the prayers of a righteous person for an unrighteousness person accomplishes salvation?
Very well said Brother.:thumbsup
 
OK, thanks. There is nothing in v.27 that leads anyone to think from v.28 that one who has been given eternal life could EVER perish. And no one has shown such a notion from either of these 2 verses.

We easily see that v.27 is a description of believers, called "His sheep".
We also easily see that v.28 is a statement about eternal security, since those given eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH.

It's actually one sentence. The teaching is about his sheep. They follow him. He gives them eternal life. By this we know who they are. His sheep hear his voice. He knows them and they know him and they follow him.


Not a relevant question. The only relevant question from these 2 verses is this:
Can anyone who has been given eternal life ever perish? That's the real question.


And, of course, there is zero reason to assume that v.27 speaks of the criteria for receiving eternal life, based on ALL the many verses that speak of possessing (being given) eternal life on the basis of BELIEVING in Christ.

Here's the point that seems to be rejected, yet is reality:
Even a believer who becomes "lost" still possesses eternal life, because there are NO verses that say that eternal life can be lost, taken away, etc.

AND, Jesus was as clear as He could be about the result of being given etenal life. The person shall NEVER PERISH.

Jesus told us many will fall away. That means they will fall away from the truth. Jesus said he was the true vine, and he told us about leaving the vine. " If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned." John 10:6 Then he spoke of the man who returns to his house, and he brings seven other spirits more evil than himself. So the last state of that man is worse than the first. Jesus gave us parables. In one parable he said, 'even what he thinks he has will be taken away.' Luke 8:15 In another he talks about being shut out of the kingdom. Mt. 25:25 In another he said, “Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Matthew 7:21

22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’ Mt. 7:22-23 RSV

He also gave us commandments and sayings like, "For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." Mt. 5:20. And, "But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be liable to the hell of fire." Mt. 5:22 And, "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Mt. 6:14,15
 
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Where would anyone get this from what gr8grace3 said:
"You may be up for some harsh discipline, a miserable existence,loss of eternal rewards and possible physical death (James 5:19-20)and SHAME at His Bema seat(1 John 2:28). 1 John 1:9 and get back in fellowship with The Lord Jesus Christ."

Do these words have no meaning for you?

How is that "not to worry"?
It truly is remarkable to watch and witness.

I understand that I may be put under harsh discipline, have shame at the bema seat, lose ETERNAL rewards, possible physical death, saved as if through fire and not glorify Him.....if I do not follow His plan for my life. And I am really saying , "Don't worry, live like hell!"

Geesh it is utterly amazing to witness folks who are utterly stuck in their private interpretations.
 
but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Mt. 6:14,15

The DRIPPING irony of loss of salvation people trying to use this passage as loss of salvation.

Loss of salvation is the epitome of not forgiving men, let alone not forgiving our other brothers and sisters in Christ.
 
FG

What do you have to support your theory? A line here and a half line there. You call it eternal security for those who fall away that doesn't say anything about falling away.
 
FG

What do you have to support your theory? A line here and a half line there. You call it eternal security for those who fall away that doesn't say anything about falling away.
John 10:28. PERIOD.

What we DO NOT have is "falling away" meaning a child of God is sent to the LoF and will perish.
 
The DRIPPING irony of loss of salvation people trying to use this passage as loss of salvation.

Loss of salvation is the epitome of not forgiving men, let alone not forgiving our other brothers and sisters in Christ.

Well, that's his word. Sometimes it falls on the hard path.
 
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