How to be saved.....

[chessman]

The teaching is about his sheep. They follow him. He gives them eternal life.

Correct.

Why do you think some people do not believe Jesus' teaching and they claim that some of His sheep do not follow Him into eternal life?

If even 1 out of 100% of His sheep does not follow Him in eternal life, Jesus' teaching about His sheep fails to be true (100% true).

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"OK, thanks. There is nothing in v.27 that leads anyone to think from v.28 that one who has been given eternal life could EVER perish. And no one has shown such a notion from either of these 2 verses.

We easily see that v.27 is a description of believers, called "His sheep".
We also easily see that v.28 is a statement about eternal security, since those given eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH."

It's actually one sentence. The teaching is about his sheep. They follow him. He gives them eternal life. By this we know who they are.

You're able to tell who has been given eternal life?? Really??

The point is that from the moment Jesus gives eternal life, He says they shall never perish.

His sheep hear his voice. He knows them and they know him and they follow him.

This is what believers do.

 

[FreeGrace]

It truly is remarkable to watch and witness.

I understand that I may be put under harsh discipline, have shame at the bema seat, lose ETERNAL rewards, possible physical death, saved as if through fire and not glorify Him.....if I do not follow His plan for my life. And I am really saying , "Don't worry, live like hell!"

Geesh it is utterly amazing to witness folks who are utterly stuck in their private interpretations.

It seems obvious that some just see (read) what they want to see.

 

[FreeGrace]

FG

What do you have to support your theory? A line here and a half line there.

What "theory" is this referring to?

You call it eternal security for those who fall away that doesn't say anything about falling away.

What does eternal security mean? It means one is eternally secure.

Which is what Jesus said about those He gives eternal life in John 10:27-28.
27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Can anyone who has been given eternal life ever perish?

If the answer is "yes", then this directly rejects what Jesus said.

If the answer is "no", then this is eternal security.

And this is not a theory. It's the words of Jesus.

 

[FreeGrace]

I understand John 10:28, half a line. Actually his sheep feed on those words.

Not really. There seems to be quite of number of posters who actually believe that someone who has been given eternal life can end up perishing. They are NOT feeding on Jesus' words. Not even nibbling.

 

[JLB]

Okay. It makes some sense in the case of the prodigal son, but not so much the lost coin or the lost sheep. But I have a question or two:

Were all three exaofound, at the conclusion of Jesus' stories? Yes! (Tired of waiting on you to admit the obvious answer). Do you find any significance whatsoever in that fact?



When (in these stories) was the elder son (or younger one for that matter) ever 'saved' to begin with and then later lost their salvation, in your opinion, and why do you think he/it was?


Amen! Repentance is a beautiful thing (for the lost and the saved!
Do you think people can pray for an un-repent person and save their soul from the 2nd death? (I don't)

Do you think elders can anoint sick people (lost or saved) with oil and pray for their healing and save their souls from the 1st death for a period? (I do, seen it happen multiple times).

But again, it really doesn't matter toward my questions about Luke 15 because all three examples end in rejoicing. 3 for 3. 100 out of 100 of His sheep are found! Like He said, His sheep follow Him. Every so often, one needs to be placed on His shoulders and carried back or a son needs to experience a famine (which by the way neither involved other disciples efforts) or a coin swept around in the dust for a period of time in order to be found. Life is messy.

I've heard so many testimonies of people being 'saved' only after hitting 'rock-bottom' that it's amazing your not getting Jesus' conclusion points (in all three examples).


Do you think people under this covenant are born 'saved' via who their parents worship or do all sinners individually need to repent of their sins before becoming "saved"?

When, exactly, did the elder son (or younger one for that matter) show any repentance for his sins, before or after becoming hungry from famine and in need of His father's help?

Here is my question from post 115 that comes from the prodigal son.

18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you, 19 and I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me like one of your hired servants.”’20 “And he arose and came to his father. But when he was still a great way off, his father saw him and had compassion, and ran and fell on his neck and kissed him. 21 And the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight, and am no longer worthy to be called your son.’ Luke 15:18-21


Do we tell people who have wandered from Christ and are backslidden and lost:

1. You are still saved, don't worry, continue as you are, Jesus will come for you someday and bring you back, it's guaranteed.
2. You must humble yourself, confess your sin, and repent and turn back to God and He will receive you back with open arms.

JLB

 

[JLB]

Okay. It makes some sense in the case of the prodigal son, but not so much the lost coin or the lost sheep. But I have a question or two:

Were all three exaofound, at the conclusion of Jesus' stories? Yes! (Tired of waiting on you to admit the obvious answer). Do you find any significance whatsoever in that fact?



When (in these stories) was the elder son (or younger one for that matter) ever 'saved' to begin with and then later lost their salvation, in your opinion, and why do you think he/it was?


Amen! Repentance is a beautiful thing (for the lost and the saved!
Do you think people can pray for an un-repent person and save their soul from the 2nd death? (I don't)

Do you think elders can anoint sick people (lost or saved) with oil and pray for their healing and save their souls from the 1st death for a period? (I do, seen it happen multiple times).

But again, it really doesn't matter toward my questions about Luke 15 because all three examples end in rejoicing. 3 for 3. 100 out of 100 of His sheep are found! Like He said, His sheep follow Him. Every so often, one needs to be placed on His shoulders and carried back or a son needs to experience a famine (which by the way neither involved other disciples efforts) or a coin swept around in the dust for a period of time in order to be found. Life is messy.

I've heard so many testimonies of people being 'saved' only after hitting 'rock-bottom' that it's amazing your not getting Jesus' conclusion points (in all three examples).


Do you think people under this covenant are born 'saved' via who their parents worship or do all sinners individually need to repent of their sins before becoming "saved"?

When, exactly, did the elder son (or younger one for that matter) show any repentance for his sins, before or after becoming hungry from famine and in need of His father's help?

Again my question from post 115 that comes from the scripture.

19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20


Why would you think that "will save a soul from death" refers to physical death.

How does a "soul" get saved from physical death.

We are promised the salvation of our soul, not the salvation of our physical body.


...receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9

• Can you give me a scripture that teaches us believer's will be saved from physical death?

JLB

 

[JLB]

The truth that's clear is that even a Christian brother can indeed have misfortune, suffering or become lost "sick" by wandering from the truth and be considered as a sinner in need of repentance and The Father's discipline. And the elders of the church can participate with God through their faithful prayers, laying on of hands and anointing of oil; thus participating in the will of The Father in turning back the misfortune, suffering or the sickly to Him. Thus saving the lost misfortunate, suffering or sickly from lose of their soul in the 1st death. What's equally clear is that either with or without the elder's faithful prayers, a brother is a brother. And God will raise him up (even if He has to put him down to do it).

James 5:13-14 Is anyone among you suffering misfortune? He should pray. Is anyone cheerful? He should sing praise. Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the elders of the church and they should pray over him, anointing him with olive oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins he [a brother] will be forgiven.​

It is blatantly obvious that James is talking about praying for physical misfortune suffering, sick and dying (their 1st death, not their 2nd) brothers in the church (for whatever reason they are misfortuned, suffering or sick).

Just as obvious as the fact that you cannot pray another un-repentant lost person into (or back into under your soteriology) salvation against their will or God's will. Our effective prayers are participating with God's work, to be sure (including God disciplinary actions upon His people, suffering/famine, sickness and even dying). That's James' point. He says zero about praying or anointing a lost person into salvation.

But either way (with our prayers or without them) The Father's will is done on Earth as it is in Heaven.

And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick ...James 5:16 Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous person accomplishes much.​

...

Do you think the prayers of a righteous person for an unrighteousness person accomplishes salvation?

It is blatantly obvious that James is talking about praying for physical misfortune suffering, sick and dying (their 1st death, not their 2nd) brothers in the church (for whatever reason they are misfortuned, suffering or sick).

Let me see if I understand what you are now implying.

A brother who has wandered from the truth, is really "sick" and "misfortunate", even though James says that if anyone turns a "sinner" back they will save a soul from death. And death in this verse is physical death?

Is that what you are teaching?

Please show us some scriptures that teach us we are saved from physical death?

• he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death?

13 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. 17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain; and it did not rain on the land for three years and six months. 18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth produced its fruit.


19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:13-20


JLB

 

[chessman]

Here is my question from post # 109.

And in need of it's Shepherd. And guess what, they have one.

Luke 15:4-5 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep and losing one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the grassland and go after the one that was lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he places it on his shoulders, rejoicing. ​

Based on the Scripture posted above ; For how long does the Shepherd "go after the one that was lost"?

A. "Until He finds it"
B. Until he gives up and admits defeat?
C. Until a wolf comes by and snatches up His sheep and eats it?

Here is my question from post 115 that comes from the prodigal son.

You need to answer my question from post # 109 and it's Scripture first.

 

[JLB]

Here is my question from post # 109.


You need to answer my question from post # 109 and it's Scripture first.

Just as soon as you answer my question from post 81 -

Here is my question again - Does lost mean saved ?

Can sheep who do not follow him become lost?

• hear My voice,
• and I know them,
• and they follow Me.

• And I give them eternal life,

Sheep who have never followed Him, are not His.
His sheep who follow Him can indeed become lost.


Here is my question again, please clarify.

Does lost mean saved ?



JLB

 

[JLB]

OK, thanks. There is nothing in v.27 that leads anyone to think from v.28 that one who has been given eternal life could EVER perish. And no one has shown such a notion from either of these 2 verses.

We easily see that v.27 is a description of believers, called "His sheep".
We also easily see that v.28 is a statement about eternal security, since those given eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH.

Those who are His sheep, will receive eternal life.

Here is the conditions listed for being His sheep and receiving eternal life.

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

Those sheep who follow for a while, then began to disobey, will become lost.

Lost = Sinner who is need of repentance; dead to God, in need of salvation, reconciliation to God.
Found = Someone is is reconciled to God; saved.

• Lost Sheep:

I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:7

• Lost Coin:

Likewise, I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Luke 15:10

• Prodigal Son

It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’” Luke 15:32

Jesus may come after you, but it's up to His sheep to repent, in order to be reconciled back to Him.

Jesus does not force people to repent.

• Do you define lost as being saved or unsaved?

Maybe an explanation of what "grace" means to you would help others understand your position, as he and I (probably others too) both see no grace in your theology. The word "grace" occurs 123 times in the NIV New Testament. It's an important word. What does it mean to you?

Grace is the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Grace, that empowers us to live our life according to the Spirit, rather than according to the flesh, and teaches us and leads into all truth.

26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

Grace also teaches us -

11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

15 Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you. Titus 2:11-15



Now, it's your turn to define grace for us.



JLB

 

[reba]

Closed for moderator review

We do not all think exactly alike ... We are all growing in the LORD . Who here is exactly the same Christian they were when they met Christ.?
Most of us have siblings same parenting yet do we all march instep with our siblings? ..
Different understandings are simply that different understandings.
My Christian brothers/sisters who hold to OSAS are every bit as saved as i am... We are not save by our views, we are saved by His Blood.
Christ suffered and died on that Cross so we could bicker hatefully at one another right?

The Theology mods may choose to waist their time editing this thread and reopening it..

Not necessarily directed at the last poster .. Do not reply to this post in this thread.