Bible Study How to reconcile Matt. 4:12 and John 4:1-3 ....?

[cyberjosh]

I am writing a book on the life of Jesus and chronology is a fairly big issue that I would like to keep with between all four gospels. I noticed something peculier about the reason why Jesus first left Judea to start his early ministry in Galillee: Matthew 4:12 says, "Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee.". Now Mark merely says that 'after' Jesus heard of John's imprisonment he left, but Matthew makes it more immediate by saying 'when'. Now John 4:1-3 says, "When therefore the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John (although Jesus Himself was not baptizing, but His disciples were), He left Judea, and departed again into Galilee." This attributes Jesus leaving to avoid confrontation with the Pharisees and John's disciples. Now can what John and Matthew said be tied together somehow in that John's imprisonment triggered the disagreements? This doesn't appear to be the case because John was present and mediating the dispute in John chapter 3 when the dispute first started.

Is it possible that coincidentaly John was thrown into prison shortly after the dispute first broke out and that Jesus left Judea for a dual purpose, and perhaps because John could no longer mediate in such circumstances?

Tell me your thoughts.

 

[cyberjosh]

No one? I would appreciate any input on this.

 

[jgredline]

Hi Cyber
I am not sure how much of a help I can be, but am willing to give you my two cents worth. First lets look at the context of the verses you are pondering..
Lets start with
Matthew
12 Now when Jesus heard that John had been put in prison, He departed to Galilee. 13 And leaving Nazareth, He came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is by the sea, in the regions of Zebulun and Naphtali, 14 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying:
15 "The land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali,
By the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan,
Galilee of the Gentiles:
16 The people who sat in darkness have seen a great light,
And upon those who sat in the region and shadow of death
Light has dawned."
17 From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."


When Jesus heard that John the Baptist had been put in prison, He realized that this was an omen of His own rejection. In rejecting the King’s forerunner, the people were, for all practical purposes, rejecting the King also. But it was not fear that drove Him north to Galilee. Actually He was going right into the center of Herod’s kingdomâ€â€the same king who had just imprisoned John. In moving to Galilee of the Gentiles, He was showing that His rejection by the Jews would result in the gospel going out to the Gentiles.

Jesus remained in Nazareth until the populace tried to kill Him for proclaiming salvation for the Gentiles (see Luke 4:16–30). Then He moved to Capernaum by the Sea of Galilee, an area originally populated by the tribes of Zebulun and Napthali. From this time, Capernaum became His headquarters.
Jesus’ move to Galilee was a fulfillment of Isaiah 9:1, 2. The ignorant, superstitious Gentiles living in Galilee saw a great lightâ€â€that is Christ, the Light of the world.
From then on Jesus took up the message which John had preached: “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.†It was a further call for moral renewal in preparation for His kingdom. The kingdom was near in the sense that the King was present. Keep also in mind how early this was in Jesus ministry.. They Got rid of John, but in return got more than they bargined for

Cyber
This next story features the providance of God in full effect.

John4:1-26
4 Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John 2 (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples), 3 He left Judea and departed again to Galilee. 4 But He needed to go through Samaria.
5 So He came to a city of Samaria which is called Sychar, near the plot of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph. 6 Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied from His journey, sat thus by the well. It was about the sixth hour.
7 A woman of Samaria came to draw water. Jesus said to her, "Give Me a drink." 8 For His disciples had gone away into the city to buy food.
9 Then the woman of Samaria said to Him, "How is it that You, being a Jew, ask a drink from me, a Samaritan woman?" For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.
10 Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, Give Me a drink, you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water."
11 The woman said to Him, "Sir, You have nothing to draw with, and the well is deep. Where then do You get that living water? 12 Are You greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well, and drank from it himself, as well as his sons and his livestock?"
13 Jesus answered and said to her, "Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life."
15 The woman said to Him, "Sir, give me this water, that I may not thirst, nor come here to draw."
16 Jesus said to her, "Go, call your husband, and come here."
17 The woman answered and said, "I have no husband."
Jesus said to her, "You have well said, I have no husband, 18 for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; in that you spoke truly."
19 The woman said to Him, "Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship."
21 Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
25 The woman said to Him, "I know that Messiah is coming" (who is called Christ). "When He comes, He will tell us all things."
26 Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am He."




The Pharisees had heard that Jesus was baptizing more disciples than John and that John’s popularity was evidently declining. Perhaps they had attempted to use this fact to stir up jealousy and contention between the disciples of John and those of the Lord Jesus. Actually, Jesus Himself did not perform the act of baptism. This was done by His disciples. However, the people were baptized as followers or disciples of the Lord.
By leaving Judea and journeying to Galilee, Jesus would prevent the Pharisees from being successful in their efforts to cause divisions. But there is something else of significance in this verse. Judea was the headquarters of the Jewish religious establishment, whereas Galilee was known as a heavily Gentile region. The Lord Jesus realized that the Jewish leaders were already rejecting Him and His testimony, and so here He turns to the Gentile people with the message of salvation.

Samaria was on the direct route from Judea to Galilee. But few Jews ever took this direct route. The region of Samaria was so despised by the Jewish people that they often took a very roundabout route through Perea to get north into Galilee. Thus, when it says that Jesus needed to go through Samaria, the thought is not so much that He was compelled to do so by geographical considerations, but rather by the fact that there was a needy soul in Samaria He could help. This is the providential meeting set up by God. This was no accident. It would be a samaritan women who was very unclean even by worldly standards, well maybe not (6 husbands) that Jesus would reveal himself to first as the messiah Is that cool or what?


So Cyber
Of the two verses you mentioned, this is what they mean standing by themselves. As you can see they fit very nicely together. If we look at Look, then we will get even more of the picture.. Is the bible cool or what

 

[cyberjosh]

Thank you for the detailed analysis. I will look over this more.

But as for now I'd like to ask a few questions first so that I have a clear picture. When John was thrown into prison I thought it was because of Herod's careless promise to Salome and not the result of political pressure or rejection of John from the Jews, because I think the Bible said that the people loved to listen to John.

Secondly, I'm unsure as to whether the Pharisees started the contention between John's and Jesus' disciples, because John was present when complaints first came to him at the end of the 3rd chapter of John. I'm not quite sure what the siginificance of the Pharisees hearing about Jesus baptising more people is. I know that many times Jesus tried to avoid drawing attention to himself to avoid speeding up the inevitable (his crucifixion) by saying several times "It is not yet my time." So perhaps he left before contention elevated. And it has been my pet theory lately that the absence of John's presence is what catalyzed the reaction to Jesus' disciples baptizing, because John was not there to mediate as he did in the end of the 3rd chapter of John.

Lastly, Galille did have a mixed population but mainly it is still identified with Jews. I mean almost all the the disciples came from Galille except for maybe Judas. And Jesus said that he was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel and told the disciples to do the same when he sent them out to witness. They were told not to go unto the Gentiles. That is why as close as Jesus got to the Gentiles was the border of Tyre, where he met the Gentile woman and healed her daughter because of her faith. And even in that circumstance Jesus first told her that he was to evangelize to the Jews first and foremost.

So taking these points into consideration could you refine your view a little bit so that I can narrow down my possibilities? I would like my book to be as accurate as possible, so I must look at the whole picture.

Thanks again.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[jgredline]

Cyber
I see what your trying to do now.
Well let me ask you a few questions.

1) Do you have a chronological bible? I have one that is pretty cool. I have not used or read it in about 4-5 years, but when I went through the bible in chronological order, it really helped. If you don't have one I could loan it to you or you can buy one. The only down side to it was that it is done in the NIV.

2) How well versed are you in jewish history and customs aside from the bible.
I had the privilege of studding under Dr Doug Bookman who was the Jewish and customs professor at Masters College before he retired. He is now a Pastor. He is known to be one of the best in his field. So I can also forward him what we can't figure out and get his advice.

Saying this let me throw you a bone.

The hate that the Jews and Samaritans had for each other is almost undescribe able.. The reason it was such a big deal to Jesus disciples that he was speaking to the 'Samaritan woman' is because of hate.. Let me explain.
When the Jews were making there way to Jerusalem from Galilee for the passover feast, the reasons the Jews would take the long way around was to avoid Samaria, because when the Samaritans would see a Jew, they would literally throw human bones, poop, and pig parts at them. If any Jew got hit or touched by any these, he was considered unclean and could not participate in the passover feast.

So keep in mind that Jesus was a rebel. He was far from being a passafist.
no everything that happened was God ordained providentually.

 

[lovely]

Hi cyber,

John was imprisoned because of his bold outspoken-ness with Herod Antipas. Matthew 14:3-4

Then, Jesus went into the regions of Zebulun and Naphtali to fulfill prophecy. Matthew 4:15-16 It was also the kickoff of His ministry.

Luke says that it was also because of violent rejection of Jesus. Luke:4:16-30 Matthew 8:34

Later, John sends his disciples to find out if Jesus is the Christ. Was he confused because Jesus was healing, and not judging? Maybe. Christ did tell John's disciples to go and tell him the things that they see, and hear. I am sure the reported that Jesus was certainly the Messiah. Matthew 11:2-4

John had also been rejected Luke 7:19-35 and Matthew 11:2-24 and

Consider some of these verses, and how they tie in with Jesus' words to John's disciples.

Isaiah 29:18-24
Isaiah 35:5-10

He did not give John any more explanation. I imagine John knew the Scriptures, and understood then why Christ was healing, and not judging.

Jesus indicates after John's disciples left, who John was...

Malachi 3:1-6 Jesus quotes the first verse, and then alludes to John being Elijah (or the spirit of Elijah, perhaps) in verses 5 and 6 there. See also Matthew 17:1-13 Notice, as a point of interest, the Scriptures that Christ read while in the temple in His rejection at Nazareth...Isaiah 61:1-2 the following verses in the same chapter refer to the judgement. Matthew 13:55 and Mark 16-30

All of this also ties in with Revelation 11:1-13

I hope this helps, the Lord bless you.

 

[cyberjosh]

1) Do you have a chronological bible? I have one that is pretty cool. I have not used or read it in about 4-5 years, but when I went through the bible in chronological order, it really helped. If you don't have one I could loan it to you or you can buy one. The only down side to it was that it is done in the NIV.

Thanks for the offer but I have a Bible that has a "Harmony of the Gospels" chart several pages long right before Matthew. And it has very good commentary, but it doesn't catch everything. What I am dealing with is "why" things happen because that could help clarify a sequence of seemingly simultaneous events if we see what is really going on at a given time.

2) How well versed are you in jewish history and customs aside from the bible.
I had the privilege of studding under Dr Doug Bookman who was the Jewish and customs professor at Masters College before he retired. He is now a Pastor. He is known to be one of the best in his field. So I can also forward him what we can't figure out and get his advice.

I'm actually quite well versed in Jewish customs and History.

The hate that the Jews and Samaritans had for each other is almost undescribe able.. The reason it was such a big deal to Jesus disciples that he was speaking to the 'Samaritan woman' is because of hate.. Let me explain.
When the Jews were making there way to Jerusalem from Galilee for the passover feast, the reasons the Jews would take the long way around was to avoid Samaria, because when the Samaritans would see a Jew, they would literally throw human bones, poop, and pig parts at them. If any Jew got hit or touched by any these, he was considered unclean and could not participate in the passover feast.

So keep in mind that Jesus was a rebel. He was far from being a passafist.
no everything that happened was God ordained providentually.

I know Jesus didn't go with the flow, neither did John the Baptist, but I gave you my reasoning in that Jesus said several times "It is not yet my time" and because of it he usually left the area he was in to avoid conflicts that would speed up his death date.

Also what do you think of my idea that John not being able to mediate (because he had been thrown into prison) may have put Jesus in this position of hostility from the pharisees and John's disciples?


Thanks.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[cyberjosh]

John was imprisoned because of his bold outspoken-ness with Herod Antipas. Matthew 14:3-4

Then, Jesus went into the regions of Zebulun and Naphtali to fulfill prophecy. Matthew 4:15-16 It was also the kickoff of His ministry.

Luke says that it was also because of violent rejection of Jesus. Luke:4:16-30 Matthew 8:34

Later, John sends his disciples to find out if Jesus is the Christ. Was he confused because Jesus was healing, and not judging? Maybe. Christ did tell John's disciples to go and tell him the things that they see, and hear. I am sure the reported that Jesus was certainly the Messiah. Matthew 11:2-4

John had also been rejected Luke 7:19-35 and Matthew 11:2-24 and

Consider some of these verses, and how they tie in with Jesus' words to John's disciples.

Isaiah 29:18-24
Isaiah 35:5-10

He did not give John any more explanation. I imagine John knew the Scriptures, and understood then why Christ was healing, and not judging.

Jesus indicates after John's disciples left, who John was...

Malachi 3:1-6 Jesus quotes the first verse, and then alludes to John being Elijah (or the spirit of Elijah, perhaps) in verses 5 and 6 there. See also Matthew 17:1-13 Notice, as a point of interest, the Scriptures that Christ read while in the temple in His rejection at Nazareth...Isaiah 61:1-2 the following verses in the same chapter refer to the judgement. Matthew 13:55 and Mark 16-30

All of this also ties in with Revelation 11:1-13

I hope this helps, the Lord bless you.

Thank you Lovely. That time line is a little more spread out than the specific time frame that I am trying to concentrate on at the moment but perhaps once I move on this will come in handy. Thanks.

God Bless,

~Josh