I believe that all who are in Christ are no longer under the old Covenant law

[dirtfarmer]

1. The law of sin and death is not the law of Moses.
2. how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy... shows my point.

I gave you the scripture with the language that says - Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy...




JLB

hello JLB,dirtfarmer here

If the law given to Moses is not the law of sin and death, then what is the law of sin and death. We are told that because of the weakness of the flesh that it is impossible to keep the law of Moses by our flesh and therefore the law is a sentence of death.Without Jesus Christ as our savior, the law reveals how exceeding sinful sin is and our need of a savior. We are told in Romans 3:20 that it is by the law that we have knowledge of sin. If we have a knowledge of sin then understand that the law brings death, because we are not able to keep the and therefore, we are slain by it.

Hebrews 6 doesn't show that you can lose your salvation, but it does show that those that "turn their nose up" and reject the gospel of Jesus Christ once they understand, there is no more chances for salvation.

 

[JLB]

If the law given to Moses is not the law of sin and death, then what is the law of sin and death.

The law of sin and death that began in the garden, brother.

A couple of thousand years before Moses was born.

The law that caused death to spread to all men, when Adam sinned and disobeyed God.

12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. Romans 5:12-13

The law is verse 13 is a reference to the law of Moses.

The law of Moses was added to the Abrahamic Covenant, temporarily until the Seed (Christ) should come.


The law of sin and death is a permanent law like the law of gravity.


Even Lucifer, before mankind, was affected by the law of sin and death, since hell was created because of his sin (iniquity)

The law of Moses was temporary, have been added to the covenant with Abraham, until the Seed...

What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19



JLB

 

[dirtfarmer]

The law of sin and death that began in the garden, brother.

A couple of thousand years before Moses was born.

The law that caused death to spread to all men, when Adam sinned and disobeyed God.

12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. Romans 5:12-13

The law is verse 13 is a reference to the law of Moses.

The law of Moses was added to the Abrahamic Covenant, temporarily until the Seed (Christ) should come.


The law of sin and death is a permanent law like the law of gravity.


Even Lucifer, before mankind, was affected by the law of sin and death, since hell was created because of his sin (iniquity)

The law of Moses was temporary, have been added to the covenant with Abraham, until the Seed...

What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19



JLB

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

Will study your answer. It seems as if you are correct, but Lucifer, better known as Satan, the devil, had access to God after his "fall" according to Job. What does it mean, " sin is not imputed when there is no law, but nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses"? It is my understanding that by Adam's change that all after him was born in his image and likeness and therefore the sin nature is passed by physical birth.

 

[JLB]

What does it mean, " sin is not imputed when there is no law, but nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses"?

12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. Romans 5:12-14

Remember by saying Moses he is indicating that sin was in the world by through the law of Moses, sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

Paul writing to the Church in Rome, but always using his great skill as a pharisee to reach the Jewish community within the Church, is making a legal argument for Christ Jesus and the gift that comes to those who believe, in that a transgression of a law is not counted against someone where no law has been established or written or posted, [which would later come through Moses], never the less, he says death reigned as it had spread to all men through Adam's transgression, even though we as individuals have not sinned in the likeness of Adam's having partaken from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, we still inherited a corrupt nature which came from Adam.


19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 5:19-21


Grace is God's power working ability within us to practice righteousness, [live according to the Spirit] apart from the corrupt nature we inherited from Adam.




JLB

 

[atpollard]

First, I never heard of that website and what I have posted here is my own study of scripture and my own writing of what I studied from scripture so do not be so quick to judge.

Your claim snaps the suspenders of statistical credibility ...
You wrote:

The 490 years were up and many of the Jews not only did not repent but they killed the very Messiah they had been waiting for as well as in 24 A.D. they made an opened display of rejecting the Gospel message as they stoned Stephen being the final messenger that was sent to give them their last chance to repent. The Jews were now rejected as God’s chosen people and were no different from the Gentiles as from thattime forth each individual, Jew and Gentile has to make their own decision to accept or reject Jesus asLord and Savior, John 3:3-7; Romans 10:9, 10.

and the website that you 'never heard of' wrote:

"In the autumn of the year 34 A.D., the Jewish leaders rejected the Gospel message. They openly declared this rejection by the stoning of Stephen that was approved wholly by the leaders of Israel. The sad historical fact is Stephen was the first Christian martyr killed by the hands of the Jewish nation itself. The 490 years were up and the Jews not only did not repent but they killed the very Messiah they had been waiting for as well as the final messenger that was sent to give them their final chance to repent. The Jews were now rejected as God’s chosen nation and were no different from the Gentiles."

The statistical odds of two, independent sources composing so many sentences of EXACTLY the same wording is staggeringly improbable. Since a more careful search of other paragraphs than the one paragraph I chose to examine would likely reveal more identical wording, the possibility that you "never heard of that website and what [you] have posted here is [your] own study of scripture and [your] own writing of what [you] studied from scripture" becomes vanishingly improbable.

 

[Douglas Summers]

IF we are not under the law .. is it ok to commit murder, adultery.. have other Gods? etc?

Hi reba, Many misunderstand the phrase in Scripture "not under Law". The Law still stands as it did when it was given. What Christ did was to take us out from under the penalty of the Law (Death).(Rom. 3:19-20) So we as Christians are to uphold the Law. So, how do you uphold the law if we are not under law?(Rom. 3:31) We let it do what it was intended to do, to condemn sin in sinful man and send us to Christ. Now we are under the Law of Christ.(called Grace) (Rom. 5:12-21) OH Happy days!

 

[reba]

@selihah we must be careful of copy right stuff... please state your source ,,,

 

[for_his_glory]

Your claim snaps the suspenders of statistical credibility ...
You wrote:


and the website that you 'never heard of' wrote:


The statistical odds of two, independent sources composing so many sentences of EXACTLY the same wording is staggeringly improbable. Since a more careful search of other paragraphs than the one paragraph I chose to examine would likely reveal more identical wording, the possibility that you "never heard of that website and what [you] have posted here is [your] own study of scripture and [your] own writing of what [you] studied from scripture" becomes vanishingly improbable.

Like I said I never heard of that website. I wrote this from notes I had taken from a website many years ago when I was studying this topic. I couldn't even remember what website it was, but here are the exact words I copied from it.

The 490 years were up and many of the Jews not only did not repent but they killed the very Messiah they had been waiting for

The Jews were now rejected as God’s chosen

and were no different from the Gentiles

If these few words above are plagiarism then many who have these type of websites are also guilty as what I have copied above was from another website, but yet I added to their work to make it my own study. I'm not an advocate for any website and I will reference the ones I use when need be. I might borrow a sentence here or there, but yet the whole of what I post is from my own studies using some websites just for scripture, history and dates.
..........please!!!

 

[JLB]

Hi reba, Many misunderstand the phrase in Scripture "not under Law". The Law still stands as it did when it was given. What Christ did was to take us out from under the penalty of the Law (Death).(Rom. 3:19-20) So we as Christians are to uphold the Law. So, how do you uphold the law if we are not under law?(Rom. 3:31) We let it do what it was intended to do, to condemn sin in sinful man and send us to Christ. Now we are under the Law of Christ.(called Grace) (Rom. 5:12-21) OH Happy days!

What people misunderstand is the difference in the Torah (the law), the first five books of the Bible and the law of Moses.

In addition the 10 commandments did not originate with Moses, but were a part of the Abrahamic Covenant which Abraham received by faith, 430 years before the law was added.

In other words, the 10 commandments are God's eternal commandments.

The law of Moses was temporary having been added until the Seed should come.

19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
Galatians 3:19

By saying "til", the Holy Spirit is indicating the law was temporary.


The law of Moses was always temporary and was nailed to the cross, having Benny abolished in His flesh.

having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thusmaking peace,
Ephesians 2:15


JLB