I have eternal life because I believe in Jesus shown by my following

[PeterJens]

For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.
John 3:20-21

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:36

Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.
John 5:23

The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me,[a] is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
John 10:25-30

If you believe in someone you trust them and their instruction. Now think a moment.
When you learn to drive you trust the driving instructor, you do what he says.
When you learn to fly you truth the pilot instructor, you do what he says, you believe in
him and trust they know what you need to learn and put into practice.

Now a group have arisen who claim you believe in Jesus but disobey what He says,
do not follow His words, and continue in the world in the ways of the world.

These are not sheep but wolves and their agenda is to attempt to take Jesus away from
believers, while not listening to our Lord.

And their justification is because Jesus promised to save His people, to say you can lose
this salvation you are saying He is lying. The truth is stranger though. Jesus will save His
own, and they will never be lost, but are you part of His people, following and listening to Him
because you love Him? You are. Great, the Lord will keep you till you meet Him.

But as Judas and Peter found out, what we are becomes clearer as we walk our paths, and
we maybe sure we know where we are, but truly only God knows, and only when we follow
Him and His word does our path become the walk in the Kingdom. Amen.

So follow, listen, walk in love and praise of our glorious Lord as we stride forward in purity,
holiness and love, Amen.

 

[PeterJens]

An emotional response to a theological position

I have been accused of arrogance for saying Jesus is calling us to follow Him, His words and
example by saying we believe in Him. The idea is we are arrogantly adding to the free gift of
salvation, rather than just listening and putting into action what Jesus is telling us to do and
how to behave.

For me it is simply not reading and listening to Christ to not do this.

What I do not understand is if Jesus says "Love one another as I have loved you"
this could be taken in any other way than learning to do this as He is our Lord.

Maybe some are suffering from unbelief and not being empowered by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Douglas Summers]

I have been accused of arrogance for saying Jesus is calling us to follow Him, His words and
example by saying we believe in Him. The idea is we are arrogantly adding to the free gift of
salvation, rather than just listening and putting into action what Jesus is telling us to do and
how to behave.

Not by Born again believers. But from this world....yeah! Get use to it and pray that they will see Christ in you and not just you. You are welcomed into to our position and calling out, to suffer these things with Christ. For the student is not above the teacher. If they hated Christ....they will hate you. But God is a mighty fortress. Welcome PeterJens.
In my Savior and yours
Douglas Summers

 

[PeterJens]

Not by Born again believers. But from this world....yeah! Get use to it and pray that they will see Christ in you and not just you. You are welcomed into to our position and calling out, to suffer these things with Christ. For the student is not above the teacher. If they hated Christ....they will hate you. But God is a mighty fortress. Welcome PeterJens.
In my Savior and yours
Douglas Summers

Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
Matt 5:3-5

For my part I am not better than anyone else, or worse.
As a redeemed sinner who owes my life to my Lord, I live in hope
that others would find joy in the love, salvation and promises Christ
brings as well as the victory in following Him.

Jesus talked about fruit, and getting nice statements from those who
have thorns or thistles as their approach. It strikes me this group feel
condemned by Christs words, are very aware of their failure, but feel the
condemnation is from the enemy and they are actually saved and forgiven
except their consciences and life tells them otherwise. To make sense of
this we who hold to Jesus words must be the enemy and evil, which is like
taking the gospel and inverting it, and making good evil and evil good.

So I initially approached the group sharing Christs love and His walk, and was
responded to as if I did not know Christ or the Holy Spirit.

Their resolution to guilt is to ignore it, rather than let Jesus's love refocus their
hearts, change their expectations and purify them through repentance and confession,
beginning to see what behaviour that is a problem and that which is just personal failure
of ones own expectations.

So I do not know out of this group who is just confused and who is not saved,
but I want a defined approach, as I keep meeting people who go down the same
condemning and brutal line, based on a few sentences. And they seem dedicated
to the idea of isolating and dividing fellowships around those who agree with them
and the evil others. And they come as believers but say such absolute and judgemental
things personally, and actively cause trouble against people who they have identified
as part of this evil opposition. And if you come to show sinful behaviour in their own lives,
they redouble their efforts to reject and condemn one, because that proves one is an evil
legalist, rather than a caring loving follower of Jesus who is reaching out to share the way.

God bless you

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

Edit.

I will get scripture and come back.

 

[JohnDB]

OK...
This thread is off to a horrible start.

Scriptures and positions?
Debate-able positions?
If a position doesn't appear soon I'm closing the whole thing.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
Matt 5:3-5

For my part I am not better than anyone else, or worse.
As a redeemed sinner who owes my life to my Lord, I live in hope
that others would find joy in the love, salvation and promises Christ
brings as well as the victory in following Him.

Jesus talked about fruit, and getting nice statements from those who
have thorns or thistles as their approach. It strikes me this group feel
condemned by Christs words, are very aware of their failure, but feel the
condemnation is from the enemy and they are actually saved and forgiven
except their consciences and life tells them otherwise. To make sense of
this we who hold to Jesus words must be the enemy and evil, which is like
taking the gospel and inverting it, and making good evil and evil good.

So I initially approached the group sharing Christs love and His walk, and was
responded to as if I did not know Christ or the Holy Spirit.

Their resolution to guilt is to ignore it, rather than let Jesus's love refocus their
hearts, change their expectations and purify them through repentance and confession,
beginning to see what behaviour that is a problem and that which is just personal failure
of ones own expectations.

So I do not know out of this group who is just confused and who is not saved,
but I want a defined approach, as I keep meeting people who go down the same
condemning and brutal line, based on a few sentences. And they seem dedicated
to the idea of isolating and dividing fellowships around those who agree with them
and the evil others. And they come as believers but say such absolute and judgemental
things personally, and actively cause trouble against people who they have identified
as part of this evil opposition. And if you come to show sinful behaviour in their own lives,
they redouble their efforts to reject and condemn one, because that proves one is an evil
legalist, rather than a caring loving follower of Jesus who is reaching out to share the way.

God bless you

Hi Peter, Sometimes we have to let the opposition know you understand how they feel and think....we use to be one of them.

 

[PeterJens]

OK...
This thread is off to a horrible start.

Scriptures and positions?
Debate-able positions?
If a position doesn't appear soon I'm closing the whole thing.

My position is simple. Jesus through repentance changes our hearts, so we follow and put
into effect His commands because love flows from our hearts.

Some feel salvation is a transactional event, which means you have faith in Christs work so
are saved.
I have had people declare how their hearts and attitudes are not something to discuss or even
bring before the Lord.

Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.
James 5:16

Our walk is called to be a Holy walk
As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”
1 Peter 1:14-16

Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble.
1 Peter 3:8

So do you agree we should walk in Holiness, love and purity, or are these impossible aspirations, which
are goals we will never attain before we meet Jesus?

 

[JLB]

For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.
John 3:20-21

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:36

Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.
John 5:23

The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me,[a] is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
John 10:25-30

If you believe in someone you trust them and their instruction. Now think a moment.
When you learn to drive you trust the driving instructor, you do what he says.
When you learn to fly you truth the pilot instructor, you do what he says, you believe in
him and trust they know what you need to learn and put into practice.

Now a group have arisen who claim you believe in Jesus but disobey what He says,
do not follow His words, and continue in the world in the ways of the world.

These are not sheep but wolves and their agenda is to attempt to take Jesus away from
believers, while not listening to our Lord.

And their justification is because Jesus promised to save His people, to say you can lose
this salvation you are saying He is lying. The truth is stranger though. Jesus will save His
own, and they will never be lost, but are you part of His people, following and listening to Him
because you love Him? You are. Great, the Lord will keep you till you meet Him.

But as Judas and Peter found out, what we are becomes clearer as we walk our paths, and
we maybe sure we know where we are, but truly only God knows, and only when we follow
Him and His word does our path become the walk in the Kingdom. Amen.

So follow, listen, walk in love and praise of our glorious Lord as we stride forward in purity,
holiness and love, Amen.

Thank you for this insiteful post to challenge us in this new year.




JLB

 

[ezra]

My position is simple. Jesus through repentance changes our hearts, so we follow and put
into effect His commands because love flows from our hearts.

Some feel salvation is a transactional event, which means you have faith in Christs work so
are saved.
I have had people declare how their hearts and attitudes are not something to discuss or even
bring before the Lord.

Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.
James 5:16

Our walk is called to be a Holy walk
As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”
1 Peter 1:14-16

Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble.
1 Peter 3:8

So do you agree we should walk in Holiness, love and purity, or are these impossible aspirations, which
are goals we will never attain before we meet Jesus?

you might just well get ready a post of this nature .will go out of control like the California wildfires . so if i may ask your position is eternal salvation osas ?

 

[PeterJens]

you might just well get ready a post of this nature .will go out of control like the California wildfires . so if i may ask your position is eternal salvation osas ?

I am not a osas follower.
I am a believer who is convicted those chosen by God, destined for heaven will walk the path.
I am becoming more persuaded that you can only tell the fruit of the word in ones heart after
a longer period of time, like any gardener will tell you. A seed can sprout and die, only when
it is an established plant can you say, yes that worked.

I also know many who come to faith in their youth, to drift away, and refind their life in Christ later
in life. Some might argue they had faith, lost it, and regained it.

I tend to think of things only make sense at the end of ones walk here, and the Lord pulls through
His own.

Did Abraham knew he trusted God deeply until he was prepared to offer Issac?
Did Peter understand his impetuous nature until he denied Christ, but still believed in Jesus to
accept His forgiveness?

I have seen believers come to a trial, stumble and get lost for a while, and then come back, realising
their emotional mistake, and find depth and authority in their walk.

I also know people want simple packaged solutions, with absolutes, which define them as safe and
anyone outside this group as lost.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Rom 8 38-39

If we desire to follow Christ, nothing can separate us from Christ.
I do doubt that many who claim this desire achieve it because they refuse to follow or even acknowledge
their calling.

 

[ezra]

I am not a osas follower.
I am a believer who is convicted those chosen by God, destined for heaven will walk the path.
I am becoming more persuaded that you can only tell the fruit of the word in ones heart after
a longer period of time, like any gardener will tell you. A seed can sprout and die, only when
it is an established plant can you say, yes that worked.

i can agree some what with this.. one thing we are called to be fruit bearers,,not fruit inspectors but get ready i expect this to go viral

 

[JLB]

I am not a osas follower.
I am a believer who is convicted those chosen by God, destined for heaven will walk the path.
I am becoming more persuaded that you can only tell the fruit of the word in ones heart after
a longer period of time, like any gardener will tell you. A seed can sprout and die, only when
it is an established plant can you say, yes that worked.

I also know many who come to faith in their youth, to drift away, and refind their life in Christ later
in life. Some might argue they had faith, lost it, and regained it.

I tend to think of things only make sense at the end of ones walk here, and the Lord pulls through
His own.

Did Abraham knew he trusted God deeply until he was prepared to offer Issac?
Did Peter understand his impetuous nature until he denied Christ, but still believed in Jesus to
accept His forgiveness?

I have seen believers come to a trial, stumble and get lost for a while, and then come back, realising
their emotional mistake, and find depth and authority in their walk.

I also know people want simple packaged solutions, with absolutes, which define them as safe and
anyone outside this group as lost.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Rom 8 38-39

If we desire to follow Christ, nothing can separate us from Christ.
I do doubt that many who claim this desire achieve it because they refuse to follow or even acknowledge
their calling.

Yes. How can a plant be called "wheat" that produces no wheat?

A blade of true wheat that spouts and grows then withers and dies before it produces any of its fruit has no benefit to the one who planted it.


JLB

 

[Papa Zoom]

My position is simple. Jesus through repentance changes our hearts, so we follow and put
into effect His commands because love flows from our hearts.

Some feel salvation is a transactional event, which means you have faith in Christs work so
are saved.
I have had people declare how their hearts and attitudes are not something to discuss or even
bring before the Lord.

Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.
James 5:16

Our walk is called to be a Holy walk
As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”
1 Peter 1:14-16

Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble.
1 Peter 3:8

So do you agree we should walk in Holiness, love and purity, or are these impossible aspirations, which
are goals we will never attain before we meet Jesus?

Totally agree we should do such.
Philippians 2New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Be Like Christ
2 Therefore if there is any encouragement in Christ, if there is any consolation of love, if there is any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and compassion, 2 make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose. 3 Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; 4 do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. 5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

Romans 8:29
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;

 

[Papa Zoom]

you might just well get ready a post of this nature .will go out of control like the California wildfires . so if i may ask your position is eternal salvation osas ?

If this thread goes that direction it will get shut down. Enough with the OSAS. That's not the point of this thread. ;)

 

[ezra]

If this thread goes that direction it will get shut down. Enough with the OSAS. That's not the point of this thread. ;)

been other threads went crazy off subject .time will tell

 

[PeterJens]

i can agree some what with this.. one thing we are called to be fruit bearers,,not fruit inspectors but get ready i expect this to go viral

This raises an interesting point that some keep on bringing up.
Jesus said false teachers are full of thorns and thistles so one cannot expect grapes or figs from them.
In the parable of the seed and sower I thought the fruit was actual converts, and then good works.
I now think Jesus is saying His words take root in our hearts, knit together to produce the plant of life,
which then gives birth to words of our making, which we speak forth into other peoples lives.

As Jesus says, His way is easy, and His burden is light if one actually follows it. So we all will have this
fruit if we abide in Christ and follow.

 

[ezra]

An emotional response to a theological position

I have been accused of arrogance for saying Jesus is calling us to follow Him, His words and
example by saying we believe in Him. The idea is we are arrogantly adding to the free gift of
salvation, rather than just listening and putting into action what Jesus is telling us to do and
how to behave.

For me it is simply not reading and listening to Christ to not do this.

What I do not understand is if Jesus says "Love one another as I have loved you"
this could be taken in any other way than learning to do this as He is our Lord.

Maybe some are suffering from unbelief and not being empowered by the Holy Spirit.

i fail to see how that is arrogance in following Jesus. in fact we are told to take up our cross follow him deny our self . i have eternal life because he has promised us eternal to those who call up him.. i accept it by faith i also have a know so salvation 1 john 5:13 peter tells us our salvation is kept by the power of God. james tells us to be doers of the word not just hear it.. we must use what we hear,

 

[ezra]

I thought the fruit was actual converts, and then good works.
I now think Jesus is saying His words take root in our hearts, knit together to produce the plant of life,
which then gives birth to words of our making, which we speak forth into other peoples lives.

As Jesus says, His way is easy, and His burden is light if one actually follows it. So we all will have this
fruit if we abide in Christ and follow.

that could be very well possible i think converts might be part of it and works part of it also..

His words take root in our hearts, knit together to produce the plant of life,

well we are told to bear fruit more fruit much fruit and the fruit is to remain . in order to produce fruit we must be connected to the true vine. .i will say you have a different outlook on it.. but i can,t say i disagree .

 

[Papa Zoom]

I have been accused of arrogance for saying Jesus is calling us to follow Him, His words and
example by saying we believe in Him. The idea is we are arrogantly adding to the free gift of
salvation, rather than just listening and putting into action what Jesus is telling us to do and
how to behave.

I too find the idea of this call to follow Jesus as being arrogant puzzling. People can be arrogant but ideas no so much. It can be in the way it's presented. However, the you present it here is anything but arrogant. I think what you say here is something we can all agree upon.

With the free gift of salvation comes a necessary response, just as you have said: "putting into action what Jesus is telling us to do..." and yes, even how to behave (love one another, forgive 70x7, etc). If we all followed this simple maxim to the letter, what a world we'd have.