I S R A E L . . .

[Eventide]

Ro 9:6 ¶ Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Amen to this... it's the simple truth of the word of God.. just like every other portion of scripture which has been posted here.

 

[Randy]

As mentioned in the OP, I can't understand why so many seem to have difficulty understanding who Israel is...

Is the word of God not perfectly clear here.. ?

Jacob... his twelve sons... the twelve tribes of Israel...?

Jacob, who is called Israel.

Twelve Apostles, who shall sit upon twelve thrones in the regeneration, judging the twelve tribes of Israel...

The mystery pertaining to Israel... how that they are blinded in part until the fulness of the GENTILES be come in..

Israel, the only nation on earth that is not GENTILE..

Revelation showing us clearly each of the twelve tribes with the seal of God in their foreheads.. with respect to the things which shall be hereafter..

How is all of this not painfully obvious ?

So who were the Apostles? Who did Peter speak too when He quoted the word of the Lord spoken through Joel, "In the last days I will pour out my Spirit..."? Who did God make a covenant with as in I will make a New Covenant... Its clear to me God promise to Abraham didn't fail in that his descendants would inherit the land shown to Abraham. But even the first covenant had terms and conditions curses and blessings. Many did believe and followed Jesus. God has only one family. Jew, Gentile, Male, Female. It surprised the Apostles that God also poured out His Spirit (same one that the apostles freely received) on the gentiles. But that also was fortold. "I will make you a light to the
gentiles..." Isaiah 49:6 God is the God of all mankind. Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world. I do believe the Lords Kingdom will once again be associated at the 2nd coming with a nation of a people belonging to God. But after the 1000 years the new Jerusalem will come down out of heaven and Gods place will be on a new earth with man. Those that love God will inherit that city.

R.

 

[Eventide]

As mentioned in the OP, I can't understand why so many seem to have difficulty understanding who Israel is...

Is the word of God not perfectly clear here.. ?

Jacob... his twelve sons... the twelve tribes of Israel...?

Jacob, who is called Israel.

Twelve Apostles, who shall sit upon twelve thrones in the regeneration, judging the twelve tribes of Israel...

The mystery pertaining to Israel... how that they are blinded in part until the fulness of the GENTILES be come in..

Israel, the only nation on earth that is not GENTILE..

Revelation showing us clearly each of the twelve tribes with the seal of God in their foreheads.. with respect to the things which shall be hereafter..

How is all of this not painfully obvious ?

So who were the Apostles?

Israelites.

Who did Peter speak too when He quoted the word of the Lord spoken through Joel, "In the last days I will pour out my Spirit..."?

Peter was speaking to Israelites... he is one of the Apostles to the circumcision.

Who did God make a covenant with as in I will make a New Covenant...

With Israel... although that's future, and presently Israel is cut off and their house has been left desolate. This is clearly what the book of Acts is teaching us... the gospel of God's Son going to the JEW FIRST, and then after they continually rejected IT... the Lord raised up the Apostle to the GENTILES.

How is this difficult to see ?

Its clear to me God promise to Abraham didn't fail in that his descendants would inherit the land shown to Abraham. But even the first covenant had terms and conditions curses and blessings. Many did believe and followed Jesus. God has only one family. Jew, Gentile, Male, Female. It surprised the Apostles that God also poured out His Spirit (same one that the apostles freely received) on the gentiles. But that also was fortold. "I will make you a light to the gentiles..." Isaiah 49:6 God is the God of all mankind. Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world. I do believe the Lords Kingdom will once again be associated at the 2nd coming with a nation of a people belonging to God. But after the 1000 years the new Jerusalem will come down out of heaven and Gods place will be on a new earth with man. Those that love God will inherit that city.

R.

And His covenant will not fail... All Israel shall be saved, after the fulness of the GENTILES be come in.

THEN shall the Deliverer come from Sion and turn ungodliness from JACOB.

One last thing...

You didn't respond to a single scripture which I took the time to write here. I'm being generous with this one although if you'd like to ignore what has been written, then don't expect very much response from me.

Speaking of ignoring... it's what the Apostle to the GENTILES does not want you to be ignorant of lest ye become wise in your own conceits.

That ISRAEL is blinded in part until the fulness of the GENTILES be come in...

 

[Eventide]

Remember Israel (Jacob)... the one who was deceived into believing that the son of his old age (Joseph) was dead, because of the coat dipped in blood...

But of course we know the story well...

Joseph wasn't dead... in fact he went from the pit to the prison to the throne.. second only to Pharoah.

He provides a revelation of the coming famine...

He is given a Gentile bride while in a Gentile land..

When the famine does come... who comes looking for sustenance ?

The very brothers who threw him into the pit and sold him to the Gentiles for 20 pieces of silver.

What does Joseph do...

He leads them to repentance and reveals himself to them... and they're horrified... of course.

AND JACOB... learns late in his life that the son of his old age is ALIVE and RULER of all.

We already know what's going to happen, because it's already been foretold in countless living and powerful, miraculous ways.

 

[jasoncran]

so EVENTIDE, name a modern tribe of isreal that is around today. remember that if one goes back to the first isrealites. THEY didn't have last names. Davids last name wasn't Judah.

so peter didn't quote in joel 2:28. " it shall come to pass that in the last days I shall pour my spirit .. upon my people.." so are we not in the last days and if so then who is His PEOPLE?

 

[Eventide]

If anyone would like to discuss the scriptural aspects of Jacob (Israel) or the scriptures presented thus far in this thread.. I'd be happy to. IMO it's a blessed privilege to do so.

Although any trolls and those who could obviously care less about scripture, will be ignored. I'm certainly not going to waste my time catering to any nonsense.

 

[Eventide]

I S R A E L . . .

Some summary questions for review and consideration... questions are often the best way to highlight key points.

Who wrestled with a man until the breaking of the day ?

What was his name changed to ..?.. and why might you think that it was changed..?

How many sons did Jacob have ?

DO you remember their names ?

Israel has ______ tribes and they are named after _______ sons ?

How many Apostles of the Lamb are there ?

Why is there an Apostle to the Gentiles ?

What shall happen after the fulness of the Gentiles be come ?

What are the times of the Gentiles ?

Why shall Jerusalem be trodden down of the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled ?

What happens after the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled ?

Who shall come from Sion and turn ungodliness from Jacob ?

When shall the Son of Man sit upon the throne of His glory ?

Who shall also sit upon twelve thrones, and what shall they be judging ?

What are the things which shall be hereafter ?

Does the Holy Spirit of God reveal things to come ?

This is a good start.. chew on all of these things.. they're amazing and tasty portions of the miraculous word of God which is for ever settled in heaven...

 

[Elijah674]

What were these called in Gen. 10:32 & Gen. 11:1

[32] These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.

Gen.11

[1] And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.

--Elijah

 

[Eventide]

I S R A E L . . .

Perfect segue Elijah...

By these (sons of Noah) the Lord divided the nations...

 

[Elijah674]

Re: I S R A E L . . .

Perfect segue Elijah...

By these (sons of Noah) the Lord divided the nations...

But what is in the next verse???

Re: I S R A E L . . .

What were these called in Gen. 10:32 & Gen. 11:1

[32] These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.

Gen.11

[1] And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.

--Elijah

​

 

[Eventide]

Re: I S R A E L . . .

Perfect segue Elijah...

By these (sons of Noah) the Lord divided the nations...

But what is in the next verse???

Re: I S R A E L . . .

What were these called in Gen. 10:32 & Gen. 11:1

[32] These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.

Gen.11

[1] And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.

--Elijah

​

I'm looking forward to your point..

Are you trying to make one ?

 

[Elijah674]

Only that up until that time Gen. 49:24 was seen as Israel.

[24] But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel )

And Heb. 8:8 that...
[8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

And I find it impossible to find anyplace where Adam & Eve would not be include as Israel!

--Elijah

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

ow that His Apostles shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel...?

I don't see this.
Only eleven apostles stayed true to Jesus.
Who is the 12th?
Matthias? Barnabas? Paul?

Your assumption is obviously Matthias but he was not there.

A better reading is that those who have followed Jesus to the end will sit on thrones ruling all of Israel.

 

[reba]

Saul/Paul was born a Jew with Roman citizen ship... The Israelites as a nation were in bondage to the Romans. I wonder if they were ever self governing from the time of Babylon?

 

[George Muller]

Ro 9:6 ¶ Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Well it is clear according to Gods Word that not all are Israel which were of Israel, so one does not just ignore the scriptures but one must submit their will to the scriptures. Israel of the flesh are not the true Israel, but those who have Gods promises are the "true" Israel.

 

[TonkaTim]

Saul/Paul was born a Jew with Roman citizen ship... The Israelites as a nation were in bondage to the Romans. I wonder if they were ever self governing from the time of Babylon?

For about 80 years during the Hasmonean era. An interesting time.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/Hasmonean.html
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/7319-hasmoneans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasmonean_dynasty
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/7972-hyrcanus-john-johanan-i

 

[Eventide]

With Israel... although that's future, and presently Israel is cut off and their house has been left desolate. This is clearly what the book of Acts is teaching us... the gospel of God's Son going to the JEW FIRST, and then after they continually rejected IT... the Lord raised up the Apostle to the GENTILES.

That explains Pauls presence perfectly. That troubled me before, because 12 Apostles, 12 Gates in New Jerusalem and all that, I wasn't getting how Paul was a true Apostle and yet separate and be biblically sound. Now it clicks for me. Paul was chosen to preach unto the gentiles. The fullness of the Gentiles must come in. Ahh. Thank you.

Amen George...

Paul is the Apostle to the Gentiles...

While Israel is blinded in part...

 

[Eventide]

ow that His Apostles shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel...?

I don't see this.
Only eleven apostles stayed true to Jesus.
Who is the 12th?
Matthias? Barnabas? Paul?

Your assumption is obviously Matthias but he was not there.

A better reading is that those who have followed Jesus to the end will sit on thrones ruling all of Israel.

Scripture teaches us plainly that Matthias took the place of Judas.

Why wouldn't you read this literally rather than metaphorically as in all believers ?

 

[gr8grace]

ow that His Apostles shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel...?

I don't see this.
Only eleven apostles stayed true to Jesus.
Who is the 12th?
Matthias? Barnabas? Paul?

Your assumption is obviously Matthias but he was not there.

A better reading is that those who have followed Jesus to the end will sit on thrones ruling all of Israel.

Scripture teaches us plainly that Matthias took the place of Judas.

Why wouldn't you read this literally rather than metaphorically as in all believers ?

Hello Eventide,

I enjoy reading your posts and IMO you are rightly dividing the word when it comes to Israel/Church. I want to carry out a thought and See what you think.

I do not see Matthias as the 12th Apostle. I do believe that Peter literally drew straws and they picked Matthias. But when It comes to Apostles, only God chooses. And Matthias was mens choice. And the choice was in the Bible for us to see that men do not choose Apostles, God does. Gods choice was Paul.

I believe this is what Matt 19:30 is speaking of on one level. Paul, the last Apostle chosen by God will be first. Another level being Gentiles and Jews.

SOOO, if I believe this, what doctrine does it affect down the road for me? IOW At what point will you and I bump heads if I believe it is Paul and you believe it is Matthias?

If you had to believe it was Paul, what doctrine or belief would have to change for you? I get the feeling in your belief system, that you cannot have Paul on one of the 12 thrones, why is that? If my assumption is wrong, Forgive me and disregard if my assumption is incorrect.

Just curious, you have obviously given this more thought then me.

 

[reba]

Exo_4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn: