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I S R A E L . . .

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So why are so many professing believers conceited today ?

Well, for preterists it's most likely because they can't see past 70AD.

The Holy Spirit of God shows us things to come... and yet every preterist I've met can't tell you a thing to come based upon the word of God.
 
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Case in point...

I challenge anyone here in this thread to review posts #3 and #5 and explain them in detail.

These posts deal with Israel in the regeneration and the kingdom of God.

I can practically gaurantee that these posts will ignored, and just about anything else will be commented on..

That's what trolls do imo... they ignore the truth and they ramble on and on about things that are not even relative.
 
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A

Asyncritus

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Case in point...

I challenge anyone here in this thread to review posts #3 and #5 and explain them in detail.

These posts deal with Israel in the regeneration and the kingdom of God.
Hi Eventide

Just read the 2 posts you mentioned, and I have to say they are correct in every detail.

Israel is absolutely central to the purpose of God with the earth. In fact Peter goes so far as to say that the return of the Lord Jesus is dependent on their repentance. So too does Jesus, for that matter.

Peter:

Acts 3.19 Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,
20 and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus

He's very emphatic on the point. Those 3 'thats' are decisive.

Jesus says very much the same thing:

Mt 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

That must be construed to mean that they repent and call on him as their Messiah.

Why is he coming back?

For the fulfilment of:

Lk 1.32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

In other words, he's coming to establish the Kingdom of God, as you rightly said. Where he will be the King, and repentant and judged Israel, plus the believing Gentiles will receive everlasting life and a place in that kingdom.

I was impressed to read you saying that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will be there:

We know this from:

Lk 13.28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.

It is here that God will fulfil His great promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, so clearly described in Genesis 13, 15,28 and elsewhere.

But as Hebrews 11 says:

39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Very comforting, that.

So thank you for those posts. I haven't read the rest of the thread, but thought I might add a bit of encouragement for you and for the truth you speak.
 
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something about that cabbalah statement doesn't sit well. the chassidics don't do caballah like that
If you do not believe the post and think I made it all up just Google Pulsa Denoura or go to the wiki link below

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Pulsa diNura or Pulsa Denoura.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulsa_diNura
what I freaking thought, if any jew did that it would be the haredim. and it is and well I mentioned that I know the chassidics jews don't do this. try not to lump all jews together. I don't.

http://www.spellandritual.com/the-pulsa-denura-haredim-cult-death-curse/
 
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Case in point...

I challenge anyone here in this thread to review posts #3 and #5 and explain them in detail.

These posts deal with Israel in the regeneration and the kingdom of God.
Hi Eventide

Just read the 2 posts you mentioned, and I have to say they are correct in every detail.

Israel is absolutely central to the purpose of God with the earth. In fact Peter goes so far as to say that the return of the Lord Jesus is dependent on their repentance. So too does Jesus, for that matter.

Peter:

Acts 3.19 Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,
20 and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus

He's very emphatic on the point. Those 3 'thats' are decisive.

Jesus says very much the same thing:

Mt 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

That must be construed to mean that they repent and call on him as their Messiah.

Why is he coming back?

For the fulfilment of:

Lk 1.32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

In other words, he's coming to establish the Kingdom of God, as you rightly said. Where he will be the King, and repentant and judged Israel, plus the believing Gentiles will receive everlasting life and a place in that kingdom.

I was impressed to read you saying that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will be there:

We know this from:

Lk 13.28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.

It is here that God will fulfil His great promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, so clearly described in Genesis 13, 15,28 and elsewhere.

But as Hebrews 11 says:

39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Very comforting, that.

So thank you for those posts. I haven't read the rest of the thread, but thought I might add a bit of encouragement for you and for the truth you speak.
Thank YOU for the encouragement Asy!

Comment deleted.
 
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reba

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Now of course many know and understand that Matthew 25 also speaks of the Kingdom of God... and did you know that Luke 22 also affirms the exact same thing which Matthew 19 does... how that His Apostles shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel...?

In His Kingdom...?

Read it for yourself...

And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: for I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.

...

Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations. And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; that ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.


We know WHEN the Apostles are going to sit upon twelve thrones according to Matthew 19... and that is in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits upon the throne of His glory..

Amazing stuff imo, and simple as can be as it is described in the word of God, which is for ever settled in heaven.
Rather than go to the past first... I'm going to reference the future from Matthew's gospel... specifically the 19th chapter and the 25th chapter..

Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.


This is certainly a wonderous portion of scripture which speaks of the things which shall be hereafter, in that Day, the Day of the Lord, the Day of Jesus Christ...

Now of course there is no Christian in their right mind who is going to suggest that this is past or present... it's clearly future...

How do we know that for certain...?

Because Matthew 25 also speaks of the Lord sitting upon the throne of His glory... and there it tells us precisely WHEN the Lord shall sit on His throne..

And of course that is when HE COMES in His glory... at the revelation of Jesus Christ.. whom the heaven must receive until the restitution of all things..
Here are the posts.
 

reba

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So why are so many professing believers conceited today ?

Well, for preterists it's most likely because they can't see past 70AD.

The Holy Spirit of God shows us things to come... and yet every preterist I've met can't tell you a thing to come based upon the word of God.
Eventide, You have often put me in the preterist group I will tell you again I wait as you do for His return... Based on Scripture here is one passage

Joh 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Joh 14:2In my Father's house are many mansions: ifit werenotso,I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am,thereye may be also.
 

reba

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I doubt there is a person alive who has not put a god before Thee God... might be self, football , kids, money religion most anything can be a god....
I respectfully disagree with your view of “godâ€. There is only one whether you use the upper case “G†or not. We are not children talking in the playground during recess, we are adults. To compare this to football demines the Holy Sprite. And please do not take this personal. this is not about me or you, this is about something far beyond ourselves.

Sorry I did not explain well .... Maybe this is clearer any thing mankind puts before GOD is ungodly... many folks put sports, family , money before the Living God. IMO those things put before THe one and only God are those folks gods.
 
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I challenge anyone here in this thread to review posts #3 and #5 and explain them in detail.

These posts deal with Israel in the regeneration and the kingdom of God.
Matthew 19:28-30 KJV
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration (all things new, after the Second Coming) when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

( ) added by me, regeneration, all things new, after Second Coming

1Corinthians 6:2-4 KJV
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

The Apostle shall judge the 12 tribes, the saints will judge the Gentile world.

If this means ALL Israel tribes will be saved, then ALL the world will be saved.

The Apostles were the least in ranking with the 12 tribes. They were persecuted, despised and killed. But in the end they will judge, they will be first.
And so it shall be the saints will judge the world, those that persecuted them among their own.

We see the same principle in our own court rooms, A JURY of your Peers.
It's in the OT as well, if I remember right in the 613 laws.
 
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Case in point...

I challenge anyone here in this thread to review posts #3 and #5 and explain them in detail.

These posts deal with Israel in the regeneration and the kingdom of God.

I can practically gaurantee that these posts will ignored, and just about anything else will be commented on..

That's what trolls do imo... they ignore the truth and they ramble on and on about things that are not even relative.
You make some HUGE assumptions Eventide.
Because someone believes that Daniel 9 and Matthew 23-24, is a prophecy about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD does not make them a preterist. That does not mean they do not believe in the future coming of the Lord.
I suggest before you make accusations calling people trolls maybe you should study up a bit and maybe ASK what someone believes.

What is conceit? Is it thinking that one has all the answers? Is it thinking one is better than someone else? Is it arrogance?

So answer this if you can.
HOW will the nation of Israel be saved by going back to animal sacrifices for atonement for sin?
 
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I challenge anyone here in this thread to review posts #3 and #5 and explain them in detail.

These posts deal with Israel in the regeneration and the kingdom of God.
Matthew 19:28-30 KJV
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration (all things new, after the Second Coming) when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

( ) added by me, regeneration, all things new, after Second Coming

1Corinthians 6:2-4 KJV
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

The Apostle shall judge the 12 tribes, the saints will judge the Gentile world.

If this means ALL Israel tribes will be saved, then ALL the world will be saved.

The Apostles were the least in ranking with the 12 tribes. They were persecuted, despised and killed. But in the end they will judge, they will be first.
And so it shall be the saints will judge the world, those that persecuted them among their own.

We see the same principle in our own court rooms, A JURY of your Peers.
It's in the OT as well, if I remember right in the 613 laws.
I don't recall a trial by jury in the torah, but rather the concept of three witness before the sandedrin or appointed men.
 
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I challenge anyone here in this thread to review posts #3 and #5 and explain them in detail.

These posts deal with Israel in the regeneration and the kingdom of God.
Matthew 19:28-30 KJV
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration (all things new, after the Second Coming) when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

( ) added by me, regeneration, all things new, after Second Coming

1Corinthians 6:2-4 KJV
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

The Apostle shall judge the 12 tribes, the saints will judge the Gentile world.

If this means ALL Israel tribes will be saved, then ALL the world will be saved.

The Apostles were the least in ranking with the 12 tribes. They were persecuted, despised and killed. But in the end they will judge, they will be first.
And so it shall be the saints will judge the world, those that persecuted them among their own.

We see the same principle in our own court rooms, A JURY of your Peers.
It's in the OT as well, if I remember right in the 613 laws.
I don't recall a trial by jury in the torah, but rather the concept of three witness before the sandedrin or appointed men.
Nope, I don't either. What I said was that same " principle" is seen in "our own court rooms".

I think that the "principle" not a jury is in Torah, but I could be wrong. Sorry I wasn't very clear.
I'll try to follow up. I don't know why I think that, but I look. :)
 
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I challenge anyone here in this thread to review posts #3 and #5 and explain them in detail.

These posts deal with Israel in the regeneration and the kingdom of God.
Matthew 19:28-30 KJV
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration (all things new, after the Second Coming) when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

( ) added by me, regeneration, all things new, after Second Coming

1Corinthians 6:2-4 KJV
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

The Apostle shall judge the 12 tribes, the saints will judge the Gentile world.

If this means ALL Israel tribes will be saved, then ALL the world will be saved.

The Apostles were the least in ranking with the 12 tribes. They were persecuted, despised and killed. But in the end they will judge, they will be first.
And so it shall be the saints will judge the world, those that persecuted them among their own.

We see the same principle in our own court rooms, A JURY of your Peers.
It's in the OT as well, if I remember right in the 613 laws.
I don't recall a trial by jury in the torah, but rather the concept of three witness before the sandedrin or appointed men.
Here is just one that I think speaks to the principle of judging. The Apostles judging Israel.

Not to appoint as a judge, a person who is not well versed in the laws of the Torah, even if he is expert in other branches of knowledge (Deut. 1:17) (CCN64).

Would it make sense for saints to judge Israel when they don't have the knowledge of Torah (not of the Jewish faith)?
Would we in the USA, call in a Judge or a jury from say Cuba, to make decisions on the fate of an American citizen?

Here is another one that is rather like a jury actually. Huh...hadn't even thought of this.

To give the decision according to the majority, when there is a difference of opinion among the members of the Sanhedrin as to matters of law (Ex. 23:2) (affirmative).

I see several things that are similar between our court system, at least under constitution law, and that of Torah.
Wonder if that had anything to do with our founding fathers, being Bible readers?

The list I used is from the writings of Rambam.
http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm
 
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Case in point...

I challenge anyone here in this thread to review posts #3 and #5 and explain them in detail.

These posts deal with Israel in the regeneration and the kingdom of God.

I can practically gaurantee that these posts will ignored, and just about anything else will be commented on..

That's what trolls do imo... they ignore the truth and they ramble on and on about things that are not even relative.
You make some HUGE assumptions Eventide.
Because someone believes that Daniel 9 and Matthew 23-24, is a prophecy about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD does not make them a preterist. That does not mean they do not believe in the future coming of the Lord.
I suggest before you make accusations calling people trolls maybe you should study up a bit and maybe ASK what someone believes.

What is conceit? Is it thinking that one has all the answers? Is it thinking one is better than someone else? Is it arrogance?

So answer this if you can.
HOW will the nation of Israel be saved by going back to animal sacrifices for atonement for sin?
HOW will the nation of Israel be saved by going back to animal sacrifices for atonement for sin?
good question. As you, I wait the answer
 
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The Israelites as a nation were in bondage to the Romans. I wonder if they were ever self governing from the time of Babylon?
At some point they all flee to some mountain top and commit suicide. But that is all I can remember of it. Truly a sad story indeed
 
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Case in point...

I challenge anyone here in this thread to review posts #3 and #5 and explain them in detail.

These posts deal with Israel in the regeneration and the kingdom of God.

I can practically gaurantee that these posts will ignored, and just about anything else will be commented on..

That's what trolls do imo... they ignore the truth and they ramble on and on about things that are not even relative.
You make some HUGE assumptions Eventide.
Why, because I believe what the scriptures say and teach in their simplicity...?

What are your assumptions Deb? Is it that these simple verses say the opposite of what they do say ?

Because someone believes that Daniel 9 and Matthew 23-24, is a prophecy about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD does not make them a preterist.
Did somebody say it does ?

That does not mean they do not believe in the future coming of the Lord.
Then that would mean that they're not a preterist, if they believe in the 'future' coming of the Lord.

I suggest before you make accusations calling people trolls maybe you should study up a bit and maybe ASK what someone believes.


What is conceit? Is it thinking that one has all the answers? Is it thinking one is better than someone else? Is it arrogance?
According to the Apostle to the GENTILES and in this context... it's IGNORING the mystery pertaining to ISRAEL.

So answer this if you can.
HOW will the nation of Israel be saved by going back to animal sacrifices for atonement for sin?
Who told you that the nation of Israel shall be saved by animal sacrifices ?

Israel will be saved as all others are, by grace through faith.
 
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[MENTION=93058]Deborah13[/MENTION], all jews know the torah if they are raised in the temple
 
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[MENTION=93058]Deborah13[/MENTION], all jews know the torah if they are raised in the temple
If you are referring to the law I quoted, I think that is saying beyond the ordinary instruction. I think that is what Rambam was saying. The reference is there with the quote. I didn't look it up though. It would be like going to law school but not ready to sit in the judge's seat. At least that's the way I took it.
 
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I would have to look at that quote in depth. post the source and lets discuss this. but remember the jews recite the torah and that is then later quoted in the bar and bat mitzvahs. they don't water down lessons on the torah like we Christians do.