If I ask someone for a gift, did I earn it, or work for it when I got it handed to me?

[FreeGrace]

That is not what Romans 11:29 (NIV) teaches. Let's look at the verse of Romans 11:29 in context:

All Israel will be saved
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

‘The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.

28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all (Rom 11:25-32 NIV).


Applying 'God's gifts and his call are irrrevocable' to Christian believers to bolster your OSAS position defies the exegesis of this passage. That 'irrevocable' meaning applies to Israel's gifts and call. That's the context.

OK, if Paul was referring to "Israel's gifts", then where did he note or describe them IN CONTEXT? HUH?

The problem is that he NEVER EVER described any "gifts" to Israel. Not in Romans, and not in any other epistle of his. So, just what these so-called "gifts to Israel" anyway? They sure aren't noted in Romans 11.

But, Paul DID describe some of God's gifts previously in his epistle to the Romans:
spiritual gifts in 1:11
justification in 3:24 and 5:15,16,17
eternal life in 6:23

Yet, no one has been able to show ANY OTHER gifts, especially any to Israel, anywhere in the epistle.

It's beyond my understanding why you do this when you violate the context to try to push your OSAS view.
Oz

I don't understand why anyone would even think Paul was somehow referring to gifts only to Israel when he penned 11:29. Esp since he NEVER described such gifts.

The ONLY gifts he did describe are the ones I just listed above. Those are the gifts of God that Paul was thinking of when he penned 11:29.

That's what context really means. And is.

 

[FreeGrace]

Here is my clearly stated scripture again:

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

Just as the portion of this scripture is clear concerning eternal life, so is it clear concerning eternal death.

I've already explained the verse and how it fits with the rest of Scripture. Where is your refutation of my explanation?

All you've done is repeat yourself without any attempt to refute anything I've said. We're just talking over each other's heads.

Here's the context leading up to this verse.

Romans 6:

• 15] What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

Paul plainly tells these Christians not to sin.

• 16] Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

How does any of this refute my comments, or support yours?

Christians who present themselves as a slave to sin; sin will eventually become their master, and lead them into eternal death.

So far, you've failed to prove what you're claiming here. There are no verses that support your claims.

Seems you just always assume that "death" refers to spiritual death. But you never prove it.

Christians who present themselves as slaves of righteousness, with Christ as your rightful Lord and Master; will eventually lead to becoming righteous, as He is righteous.

I can agree to this, but it has no relevance to eternal security whatsoever.

 

[JLB]

I've already explained the verse and how it fits with the rest of Scripture. Where is your refutation of my explanation?

All you've done is repeat yourself without any attempt to refute anything I've said. We're just talking over each other's heads.

How does any of this refute my comments, or support yours?


So far, you've failed to prove what you're claiming here. There are no verses that support your claims.

Seems you just always assume that "death" refers to spiritual death. But you never prove it.


I can agree to this, but it has no relevance to eternal security whatsoever.

Your going to have to do more than state your opinion, in the face of the scriptures I posted.
You have "explained" nothing.
All you have done is to "explain away" the plain words of scripture.

If you can't comprehend what "the wages of sin is death" means, then please don't try and "explain this verse away" because you can't understand what it means.

The wages of sin is death, plainly and clearly means is: the wages you will receive for sin is eternal death.

The context:
Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

The gift we have been given is Jesus Christ; His nature within us. The Spirit of [eternal] life in Christ Jesus within us, is God's gift to those who believe.

There is no eternal life apart from Jesus Christ.

If we walk in obedience to His Life, His Spirit within us, then this lifestyle is the lifestyle of righteousness.

But, if instead, while we have been given the eternal life of Jesus Christ within us, and instead of submitting to and being led by His life, His Spirit, we begin to obey the sin and it's lustful desires that dwell within our flesh, because we have chosen to present of bodies as a servant, to serve the desires of our flesh, and practice the works of the flesh, this lifestyle will lead us to the end result which is eternal death.


12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:12-16


There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit...12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:1,12-13

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

• Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9
• Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7

• Here's a very simple definition that will help you to understand the difference

Unrighteous people are those who practice unrighteousness.
Righteous people are those who practice righteousness.

Unrighteous people will not inherit the kingdom of God; they have no part in God's kingdom.



JLB

 

[OzSpen]

OK, if Paul was referring to "Israel's gifts", then where did he note or describe them IN CONTEXT? HUH?

The problem is that he NEVER EVER described any "gifts" to Israel. Not in Romans, and not in any other epistle of his. So, just what these so-called "gifts to Israel" anyway? They sure aren't noted in Romans 11.

Paul most certainly did describe the gifts to Israel in the larger context of Rom 11 (NIV) in Rom 9:1-5 (NIV), which reads,

I speak the truth in Christ – I am not lying, my conscience confirms it through the Holy Spirit – 2 I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my people, those of my own race, 4 the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. 5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, for ever praised! Amen.

What were their gifts?

• 'adoption to sonship';
• 'the divine glory';
• 'the covenants';
• 'receiving of the law';
• 'temple worship and the promises';
• 'the human ancestry of the Messiah'.

What an array of gifts. These are the gifts to Israel that are irrevocable, that can never be withdrawn.

To make Rom 11:29 apply to Christians and salvation that is OSAS and irrevocable is to engage in eisegesis - imposing FreeGrace's interpretation on the text.

I don't understand why anyone would even think Paul was somehow referring to gifts only to Israel when he penned 11:29. Esp since he NEVER described such gifts.

I don't understand how FreeGrace could make Rom 11:29 (ESV) apply to the irrevocable gift of salvation to all Christians - meaning OSAS - when the Romans context is clearly referring to the gifts and calling being to Israel.

Oz

 

[JLB]

Paul most certainly did describe the gifts to Israel in the larger context of Rom 11 (NIV) in Rom 9:1-5 (NIV), which reads,


What were their gifts?

• 'adoption to sonship';
• 'the divine glory';
• 'the covenants';
• 'receiving of the law';
• 'temple worship and the promises';
• 'the human ancestry of the Messiah'.

What an array of gifts. These are the gifts to Israel that are irrevocable, that can never be withdrawn.

To make Rom 11:29 apply to Christians and salvation that is OSAS and irrevocable is to engage in eisegesis - imposing FreeGrace's interpretation on the text.



I don't understand how FreeGrace could make Rom 11:29 (ESV) apply to the irrevocable gift of salvation to all Christians - meaning OSAS - when the Romans context is clearly referring to the gifts and calling being to Israel.

Oz

Yes sir.

And Paul plainly stated that they as well as us could be "cut off" from God, for unbelief.

[Edited. WIP]

Great point!


JLB

 

[OzSpen]

Yes sir.

And Paul plainly stated that they as well as us could be "cut off" from God, for unbelief.

Any rational person who even remotely desired to know the truth could see the warning to us from their example.

Great point!


JLB

Thanks JLB for affirming exactly what Romans 11:29 states, that the gifts that are irrevocable are in respect of Israel.

I could quote a number of evangelical commentators who are in agreement that Rom 11:29 refers to the election, calling and gifts of the Jews. Let's start with one of them, Douglas Moo, in his New International Commentary on the New Testament: The Epistle to the Romans (Moo 1996).

Paul now grounds the last part of v. 28: the Jews, despite their rejection of the gospel, remain God's beloved "because" the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable. The "call" of God clearly refers to the election according to which the Jews are beloved. The "gifts" may then be combined with "call" as one idea - "the benefits of God's call" - or be taken a distinct category - "the gifts and the call of God." The relationship between this paragraph and 9:1-5 suggests that Paul would intend "gifts" to summarize those privileges of Israel that he enumerated in 9:4-5. God's "call," then, is probably to be seen as one of the most important of those gifts: "the gifts and especially among those gifts, the call of God." The rare word "irrevocable" [Gk ametameletos. lit. "without regret"; also in 2 Cor 7:10] emphasizes the point that Paul made at the beginning of his argument: "The word of God has not failed" (9:6a). However, while this initial statement of God's faithfulness to his promises was defensive - just because Israel has not believed, "it is not as though" God is not faithful - this second assertion is positive - Israel will have a place in God's plan because God is faithful. In this way Paul marks the movement of his argument. He began with a defense of God's word and constancy against a Jewish assumption of assured access to God's grace (9:6b-29); he ends with a defense of Israel's continuing privileges on the basis of God's word against a Gentile assumption of priority (Moo 1996:732).

Work consulted
Moo, D J 1996. The Epistle to the Romans (The New International Commentary on the New Testament). N B Stonehouse, F F Bruce & G D Fee (gen eds). Grand Rapids, Michigan / Cambridge, U.K.: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.

I consider that this discussion can teach all of us lessons. We can have a particular theological perspective so grained in us that it is difficult to read favourite verses in context and arrive at conclusions that are contrary to our traditional interpretations.

I know for me that I had to battle the silence of women in ministry in the church of my upbringing. I've reached a different conclusion after examining the Bible closely. I was raised in a liberal church that baptised infants but when my parents were born again they moved to a Baptist church and I had to get answers for why they baptised believing adults.

Here we have encountered a problem that has plagued the church from its early centuries concerning eternal security and the threat of falling away, apostasy. Now this Romans 11 passages teaches us what could happen to the Jews could also happen to unbelieving Gentiles.

Getting the Lord to change our minds on a number of issues can be a struggle for some of us. I speak for myself.

Oz

 

[FreeGrace]

Paul most certainly did describe the gifts to Israel in the larger context of Rom 11 (NIV) in Rom 9:1-5 (NIV), which reads,

I speak the truth in Christ – I am not lying, my conscience confirms it through the Holy Spirit – 2 I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my people, those of my own race, 4 the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. 5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, for ever praised! Amen.

What were their gifts?

• 'adoption to sonship';
• 'the divine glory';
• 'the covenants';
• 'receiving of the law';
• 'temple worship and the promises';
• 'the human ancestry of the Messiah'.

What an array of gifts. These are the gifts to Israel that are irrevocable, that can never be withdrawn.

You seem quite convinced that Paul considered these as gifts. Where does he say that they are gifts? Nowhere.

You are assuming that Paul considered these things as gifts. But he NEVER described them as gifts. Nont here, not anywhere else.

btw, NO WHERE in Scripture is this list of what Israel had called "gifts".

Yet, Paul DID describe what he meant by "gifts of God" within the context of his epistle to the Romans:
spiritual gifts in 1:11
justification in 3:24 and 5:15,16,17
etertnal life in 6:23

These are the ONLY things Paul described as gifts of God in Romans. So you do not have a point.

To make Rom 11:29 apply to Christians and salvation that is OSAS and irrevocable is to engage in eisegesis - imposing FreeGrace's interpretation on the text.

Utter nonsense. Paul gets to define what he means by "gifts of God", not you or I. And he did exactly that.

The eisegesis is your calling that list "gifts", when the Bible does NOT do so. And ignoring what Paul described as gifts within that epistle.

I don't understand how FreeGrace could make Rom 11:29 (ESV) apply to the irrevocable gift of salvation to all Christians - meaning OSAS - when the Romans context is clearly referring to the gifts and calling being to Israel.
Oz

I think that you don't want to understand. Paul very clearly described justification and eternal life as gifts of God. So when he comes to 11:29, he doesn't have to re-list them. He only needs to make his point about God's gifts, which are irrevocable.

We know that justification and eternal life are intimately associated with salvation. And in Eph 2:8, Paul describes salvation as a gift of God.

So there is no rational reason to reject that eternal life is an irrevocable gift of God.

And finally, once again I will point out that there are ZERO verses that plainly teach that one can lose their salvation.

The opinion cannot be supported from Scripture.

 

[OzSpen]

And this gift of eternal life is irrevocable. Rom 11:29 with Rom 6:23.

I've demonstrated in #1284 and #1286 that this is a false understanding. The gifts and calling to which Rom 11:29 (ESV) refers is to the Jews - not to Christians.

Oz

 

[FreeGrace]

Yes sir.

And Paul plainly stated that they as well as us could be "cut off" from God, for unbelief.

[Edited. WIP]

Great point!
JLB

Please go ahead and prove that "cut off" means loss of salvation. By exegesis. Not by opinion.

[Deleted reference to deleted content. WIP]

I'm still waiting for someone to prove that Paul didn't have in mind what he had already described as gifts of God when he penned 11:29.

 

[OzSpen]

You seem quite convinced that Paul considered these as gifts. Where does he say that they are gifts? Nowhere.

You are assuming that Paul considered these things as gifts. But he NEVER described them as gifts. Nont here, not anywhere else.

btw, NO WHERE in Scripture is this list of what Israel had called "gifts".

Yet, Paul DID describe what he meant by "gifts of God" within the context of his epistle to the Romans:
spiritual gifts in 1:11
justification in 3:24 and 5:15,16,17
etertnal life in 6:23

These are the ONLY things Paul described as gifts of God in Romans. So you do not have a point.

Utter nonsense. Paul gets to define what he means by "gifts of God", not you or I. And he did exactly that.

The eisegesis is your calling that list "gifts", when the Bible does NOT do so. And ignoring what Paul described as gifts within that epistle.

I think that you don't want to understand. Paul very clearly described justification and eternal life as gifts of God. So when he comes to 11:29, he doesn't have to re-list them. He only needs to make his point about God's gifts, which are irrevocable.

We know that justification and eternal life are intimately associated with salvation. And in Eph 2:8, Paul describes salvation as a gift of God.

So there is no rational reason to reject that eternal life is an irrevocable gift of God.

And finally, once again I will point out that there are ZERO verses that plainly teach that one can lose their salvation.

The opinion cannot be supported from Scripture.

When you refuse to deal with the evidence I presented and then go off at your own tangent, you have used a red herring logical fallacy. We cannot have a logical conversation when you do this.

 

[FreeGrace]

Thanks JLB for affirming exactly what Romans 11:29 states, that the gifts that are irrevocable are in respect of Israel.

Let's be clear. Rom 11:29 does NOT speak of Israel. That is just an assumption. Paul already defined what he meant by gifts of God. And he NEVER described any of the list of what Israel had as "gifts". Anywhere.

 

[FreeGrace]

I've demonstrated in #1284 and #1286 that this is a false understanding. The gifts and calling to which Rom 11:29 (ESV) refers is to the Jews - not to Christians.

Oz

You've stated your opinion. And I have asked for any verse where that list is described as a gift. Anywhere in Scripture. You're not going to find any. And Paul already DID describe what he meant by gifts of God.

All one has to do to understand what Paul meant in Rom 11:29 is do a word search for "gifts" in Romans.

 

[OzSpen]

And since you bring up "rational persons", it is only those who see the direct connection between what Paul described as a gift of God in Rom 6:23 and Rom 11:29, which says that God's gifts are irrevocable.

I'm still waiting for someone to prove that Paul didn't have in mind what he had already described as gifts of God when he penned 11:29.

I've refuted your view of Rom 11:29 at #1284 and #1286. Avoiding the contextual information I've given to demonstrated that Rom 11:29 deals with the Jews is using the avoidance mechanism. It won't work, FreeGrace.

 

[FreeGrace]

When you refuse to deal with the evidence I presented and then go off at your own tangent, you have used a red herring logical fallacy. We cannot have a logical conversation when you do this.

You've provided no evidence. I asked for verses that call the things Paul listed as what Israel has as gifts. That would be evidence.

And you can stop the silly nonsense of your "red herring logical fallacy". I've presented specifically what Paul described as "gifts of God" before he penned 11:29. Context is clearly on my side.

I know what Paul meant in 11:29 because of what he wrote before 11:29.

 

[OzSpen]

Let's be clear. Rom 11:29 does NOT speak of Israel. That is just an assumption. Paul already defined what he meant by gifts of God. And he NEVER described any of the list of what Israel had as "gifts". Anywhere.

It does and I've demonstrated it in #1284 and #1286. I've provided the factual evidence and you refused to accept it. You bet Paul defined what gifts he referred to. They are in Rom 9:1-5 (ESV). Why do you think the ESV has the heading 'The Mystery of Israel's Salvation' for Rom 11:25-36 (ESV)? It's because these verses refer to Israel and their 'gifts' and 'calling'.

It does not refer to Gentiles and OSAS.

Oz

 

[FreeGrace]

I've refuted your view of Rom 11:29 at #1284 and #1286. Avoiding the contextual information I've given to demonstrated that Rom 11:29 deals with the Jews is using the avoidance mechanism. It won't work, FreeGrace.

You have "refuted" exactly nothing, Oz. I'm really disappointed because you do understand the clarity of the scope of Christ's death for everyone. But there is no clarity for loss of salvation anywhere in Scripture.

Here are 5 reasons why the Bible teaches eternal security.

First, Paul described both justification (Rom 3:24, 5:15,16,17) and eternal life (Rom 6:23) as gifts of God. Then he wrote Rom 11:29 - the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. Since he had already described what he meant by "gifts of God", there was no reason for him to specifically list what he meant by "gifts of God".

3:24 - being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus
6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
11:29 - for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Second, every believer is sealed with the Holy Spirit when they believe (Eph 1:13). This sealing is a pledge with a view to the redemption of God's own possession (believers - Eph 1:14).
And, this sealing is for the day of redemption (Eph 4:30).
1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise
1:14 - who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
4:30 - Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Third, Jesus tells us WHEN one HAS eternal life; when they believe (Jn 5:24). Then, He tells us that those to whom He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH (Jn 10:28).
5:24 - “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
10:28 - and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

Fourth, Paul stated that regardless of the believer's lifestyle, or "whether we are asleep or awake, we will be together with Him" in 1 Thess 5:10. The context begins in v.4 and contrasts believers with unbelievers, or day with night, or being alert with being asleep or sober with drunkeness.
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief;
5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;
6 so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.
7 For those who sleep do their sleeping at night, and those who get drunk get drunk at night.
8 But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.

Analysis of this passage:
v.4 tells us that believers are "not in darkness"
v.5 differentiates believers (sons of light and day) with unbelievers (not of night or darkness).
v.6 encourages believers to not live like unbelievers (not sleep as others do, but be alert and sober).
v.7 describes unbelievers and what they do.
v.8 explains that "since we are of the day" (believers), we need to be sober.
v.9 explains the destiny of the believer - not destined for wrath but for salvation
v.10 says that regardless of the believer's lifestyle, we will live together with Him.

Fifth, there are absolutely zero verses that warn us plainly that one can lose their salvation.

Feel free to explain to me what each of these verses do teach, if not eternal security.

 

[OzSpen]

You've provided no evidence. I asked for verses that call the things Paul listed as what Israel has as gifts. That would be evidence.

And you can stop the silly nonsense of your "red herring logical fallacy". I've presented specifically what Paul described as "gifts of God" before he penned 11:29. Context is clearly on my side.

I know what Paul meant in 11:29 because of what he wrote before 11:29.

I've presented abundant evidence but you refuse to accept it. It is you who is committing the red herring logical fallacy when you refuse to deal with the evidence I provide and then spin off into what you want to talk about.

I've provided abundant evidence from Romans 9 and Romans 11 to confirm Rom 11:29 (ESV) is referring to the Jews and not your pet doctrine of Christian OSAS. You are jumping through lots of hoops to make Rom 11:29 apply to OSAS when the context refutes it.

Oz

 

[FreeGrace]

It does and I've demonstrated it in #1284 and #1286. I've provided the factual evidence and you refused to accept it. You bet Paul defined what gifts he referred to. They are in Rom 9:1-5 (ESV). Why do you think the ESV has the heading 'The Mystery of Israel's Salvation' for Rom 11:25-36 (ESV)? It's because these verses refer to Israel and their 'gifts' and 'calling'.

It does not refer to Gentiles and OSAS.

Oz

Your opinion is noted. Where did Paul call those things in 9:1-5 as "gifts"? That's your problem. He didn't. But we know what he DID describe as gifts of God.

 

[OzSpen]

You have "refuted" exactly nothing, Oz. I'm really disappointed because you do understand the clarity of the scope of Christ's death for everyone. But there is no clarity for loss of salvation anywhere in Scripture.

Here are 5 reasons why the Bible teaches eternal security.

First, Paul described both justification (Rom 3:24, 5:15,16,17) and eternal life (Rom 6:23) as gifts of God. Then he wrote Rom 11:29 - the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. Since he had already described what he meant by "gifts of God", there was no reason for him to specifically list what he meant by "gifts of God".

3:24 - being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus
6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
11:29 - for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Second, every believer is sealed with the Holy Spirit when they believe (Eph 1:13). This sealing is a pledge with a view to the redemption of God's own possession (believers - Eph 1:14).
And, this sealing is for the day of redemption (Eph 4:30).
1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise
1:14 - who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
4:30 - Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Third, Jesus tells us WHEN one HAS eternal life; when they believe (Jn 5:24). Then, He tells us that those to whom He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH (Jn 10:28).
5:24 - “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
10:28 - and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

Fourth, Paul stated that regardless of the believer's lifestyle, or "whether we are asleep or awake, we will be together with Him" in 1 Thess 5:10. The context begins in v.4 and contrasts believers with unbelievers, or day with night, or being alert with being asleep or sober with drunkeness.
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief;
5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;
6 so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.
7 For those who sleep do their sleeping at night, and those who get drunk get drunk at night.
8 But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.

Analysis of this passage:
v.4 tells us that believers are "not in darkness"
v.5 differentiates believers (sons of light and day) with unbelievers (not of night or darkness).
v.6 encourages believers to not live like unbelievers (not sleep as others do, but be alert and sober).
v.7 describes unbelievers and what they do.
v.8 explains that "since we are of the day" (believers), we need to be sober.
v.9 explains the destiny of the believer - not destined for wrath but for salvation
v.10 says that regardless of the believer's lifestyle, we will live together with Him.

Fifth, there are absolutely zero verses that warn us plainly that one can lose their salvation.

Feel free to explain to me what each of these verses do teach, if not eternal security.

Why are you repeating what you've already said?

These verses have ZERO to do with Rom 11:29.

Bye, bye.

 

[FreeGrace]

I've provided abundant evidence from Romans 9 and Romans 11 to confirm Rom 11:29 (ESV) is referring to the Jews and not your pet doctrine of Christian OSAS.

At least you do note that my doctrine is Christian. Because is comes directly from the Bible.

As to "abundant evidence", all you've done is to make a claim that 9:1-5 were gifts of God to Israel. But there are NO verses that describe any of them as gifts.

You are jumping through lots of hoops to make Rom 11:29 apply to OSAS when the context refutes it.
Oz

No hoops. Just clear Scripture. Paul described these as gifts of God:
spiritual gifts in 1:11
justification in 3:24 and 5:15,16,17
eternal life in 6:23

These are the ONLY THINGS Paul described as gifts of God before he penned 11:29. You have no point.