Bible Study "... IF you abide in My word, then..."

[I_love_Springtime]

There are several passages of Scripture that seem to indicate a condition for keeping eternal salvation, that is the condition of "abiding in Him," and "keeping His word" (hang with me, I used the word "seem"!)

John 8:31 - Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed."

Here are a few from the gospel of John (Paul says the same thing several times in his writings too):

John 8:31, John 8:51, John 14:21-24, 1 John 2:28

I think John 14:23 explains everything well though when it relates our love towards Jesus as the proof we will in fact continue to abide in Him.

John 14:23 - Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; ..."

So Jesus is saying you need to abide in Him to be His disciple - but if you love Him, you will abide in Him anyway.

So does it sound like a condition or not? Not to keep salvation. I don't believe in a person losing their salvation once he knows Jesus and the Father. I think what the Lord is saying is there needs to be a change of heart, one that loves the Lord God. That condition is done when you're born again, and the love of Christ is poured into your heart by the Holy Spirit. He puts that desire to abide in Him in you.

 

[GodsGrace]

Interesting how you phrased your post.
I have a friend here who believes one cannot lose salvation...
But not because it cannot be lost per se, but because once someone knows the love of God, it becomes impossible to leave Him.

So here's what I think...

If we have to abide in Christ to be saved, then, yes, it is a condition.
And even if it IS difficult to leave God, is it impossible?

If the Holy Spirit "puts" that desire in our heart...as you said,
Is He forcing us to remain saved?
Does God force us?

 

[LovethroughDove]

I agree with what you are saying. Not to keep salvation, cause at that point the Holy Spirit is in you. He is speaking to those who will be his. He is the Word and if you remain in the Word and his words remain in you............the Holy Spirit will be in you and guide you into ALL truth.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I'm not big on theology, but I go for perseverance of the saints, personally. if someone turns apostate, it raises the obvious question: was the person genuinely saved to begin with?

interesting posts, btw.

 

[barelohim]

John 1: 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 3: 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Rev. 3:5 He that overcometh shall thus be arrayed in white garments; and I will in no wise blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

The Right to become, does not necessarily mean they will become, but they have the right to become.
" Should not perish " is a conditional preposition, doesn't say they :: Will not perish!
REV. speaks for itself.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I agree with what you are saying. Not to keep salvation, cause at that point the Holy Spirit is in you. He is speaking to those who will be his. He is the Word and if you remain in the Word and his words remain in you............the Holy Spirit will be in you and guide you into ALL truth.

Excuse me being rude but being OSAS, I just neede to offer food for thougtht because I will not argue that subject again, not mow anyway.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Well, a split post.

God wrote the Book of Life before He created the Earth, let alone before Adam was, my name was in the Book of Life and God being perfect, He makes no mistakes and the names of the Pretenders were never there to be erased. Yeah, I know what scripture says and I so want to know the answer but he won't let me die and come home. And so I wonder.

To facilitate this read the first chapter of Genesis because I am convince that folks tend not to onsider how this could be but God is not trapped into this Time/Space Continuum and never has been. God is here but He is Omniscient, Omnipotent and Omnipresent. Gis everywhere at every time, He always has been. God already knows who will and who won't walk aall of the way with Him.

I know first hearing this it sounds Sy Fi but I have discussed this with a number of Teachers, Pators and Missionaries and not one has disagreed nor even balked at first.

 

[GodsGrace]

I agree with what you are saying. Not to keep salvation, cause at that point the Holy Spirit is in you. He is speaking to those who will be his. He is the Word and if you remain in the Word and his words remain in you............the Holy Spirit will be in you and guide you into ALL truth.

Not sure if you're speaking to me...
I agree that the Holy Spirit will guide us into truth.
Not sure about ALL truth...
We cannot be sure about everything where scripture is not precise, iow.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

John 1: 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 3: 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Rev. 3:5 He that overcometh shall thus be arrayed in white garments; and I will in no wise blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

The Right to become, does not necessarily mean they will become, but they have the right to become.
" Should not perish " is a conditional preposition, doesn't say they :: Will not perish!
REV. speaks for itself.

Are you trying to put doubts in people's minds concerning their salvation?
What do you mean by this?

 

[1Genesis]

There are several passages of Scripture that seem to indicate a condition for keeping eternal salvation, that is the condition of "abiding in Him," and "keeping His word" (hang with me, I used the word "seem"!)

John 8:31 - Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed."

Here are a few from the gospel of John (Paul says the same thing several times in his writings too):

John 8:31, John 8:51, John 14:21-24, 1 John 2:28

I think John 14:23 explains everything well though when it relates our love towards Jesus as the proof we will in fact continue to abide in Him.

John 14:23 - Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; ..."

So Jesus is saying you need to abide in Him to be His disciple - but if you love Him, you will abide in Him anyway.

So does it sound like a condition or not? Not to keep salvation. I don't believe in a person losing their salvation once he knows Jesus and the Father. I think what the Lord is saying is there needs to be a change of heart, one that loves the Lord God. That condition is done when you're born again, and the love of Christ is poured into your heart by the Holy Spirit. He puts that desire to abide in Him in you.

Our Salvation is not conditional. It is not tentative. That is something that likely from the moment Christ drew his last breath on the cross, the adversary of righteousness has hoped to convince the followers of the Lords message of.
“I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.” (John 10:28-29)
God is not a man that he should lie. "never", is unequivocal.

While those who hope to convince otherwise were foreseen by Christ too.

“For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.” (Matthew 24:24)
“And many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.” (Matthew 24:11-13)

 

[GodsGrace]

Our Salvation is not conditional. It is not tentative. That is something that likely from the moment Christ drew his last breath on the cross, the adversary of righteousness has hoped to convince the followers of the Lords message of.
“I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.” (John 10:28-29)
God is not a man that he should lie. "never", is unequivocal.

While those who hope to convince otherwise were foreseen by Christ too.

“For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.” (Matthew 24:24)
“And many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.” (Matthew 24:11-13)

Perhaps your idea is the false one.

You're saved as long as you abide in Christ.
Abide is an ongoing action. Not a one time act.

You are misleading persons into thinking they can never lose their salvation no matter what type of life they live.

Jesus left us with commands we're to follow.
Why?
Was He wasting His breath by teaching us how to walk with Him?

 

[GodsGrace]

Our Salvation is not conditional. It is not tentative. That is something that likely from the moment Christ drew his last breath on the cross, the adversary of righteousness has hoped to convince the followers of the Lords message of.
“I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.” (John 10:28-29)
God is not a man that he should lie. "never", is unequivocal.

While those who hope to convince otherwise were foreseen by Christ too.

“For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.” (Matthew 24:24)
“And many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.” (Matthew 24:11-13)

Read you're last sentence in Mathew...

Who who stands firm till the end.
Stands firm...
Does not fall...

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

wondering says "You are misleading persons into thinking they can never lose their salvation no matter what type of life they live."

I don't see where Genesis is saying this/
Can you point it out to me?

 

[1Genesis]

wondering says "You are misleading persons into thinking they can never lose their salvation no matter what type of life they live."

I don't see where Genesis is saying this/
Can you point it out to me?

Genesis isn't saying this. Because Genesis isn't Arminian.

Rather, what is speaking in order to implicate Genesis as a means to an end, is the false teaching all Christians happen on in forums sooner or later. That Jesus lied. And eternal life, salvation,is not so.

Those who are in Christ don't make a habit of sinning. And when we do sin that is covered under the blood of Christ.
I knew a guy who lived his whole Christian life terrified of making one mistake, doing one thing God would disapprove, because he believed, and would tell anyone who would listen, that as soon as he, a Christian, transgressed against God at all, He would take away their Salvation.
Mentioning to him that all the references Jesus made to our eternal destiny as one of his own, the saved, concerning our eternal security in him was met with rebuttal that was out of context or outright false.

Jesus said all that the Father has given him , us, shall never be taken from his hand.
"Never", means what?
When scripture says God knew us before the womb, by name, and Christ said no one comes to him but His Father draws them, if one wants to believe the transitory salvation argument, would mean God who foreknew those who would come to his Son, seek Salvation, would have it stripped from them for some reason.
Which is nonsense of course. Because we don't do a thing to achieve nor keep our Salvation. The grace of GOD, is what affords us eternal security. His grace is what delivered himself into the world through Mary. So as to bring us to deliverance from our sins.

Every Christian should know the parable of the prodigal son.

When we're saved we become a new creation. The naysayers that promote transient salvation would be hard pressed to show the passages of scripture that says, that falls away. And the "un" state , as in unredeemed, unregenerated, is possible.

 

[1Genesis]

1. Question: "What is conditional security?"

2.Seven Proofs of Unconditional Salvation
Proof #6
The Bible gives examples of sinners
saved without any conditions.


Since God saves sinners unconditionally by His own sovereign wisdom and power in Jesus Christ, and the gospel and its ordinances are only for the education and comfort of the elect, then there should be examples of such cases in the Bible. And there are many. The previous proofs and the following examples solve the perpetual questions men have had about infants, idiots, and the heathen. Salvation is by God's grace alone, and it can easily reach every class of man in every situation. The examples to follow cover every man and thus are comforts for our souls.
We have already shown in the previous five proofs that God's elect are saved fully and infallibly without conditions. But let us add to these proofs with specific examples of such from the Bible.

What about John the Baptist? He leaped for joy in his mother's womb at the presence of Jesus, and he did so by the Holy Ghost (Luke 1:15, 44). Joy is a fruit of the Spirit and an evidence of eternal life, so we know John was saved before he was born (Gal 5:22; Rom 8:14-15; I Pet 1:8).

What about Cornelius? He feared God, which no unsaved man does (Rom 3:18); and he gave alms and prayed acceptably to God (Acts 10:1-4). And this was true before hearing the gospel or being baptized. Peter revealed by the Spirit he was already accepted with God (Acts 10:34-35).

What about Lot? He loved Sodom more than righteousness, and he ended up incestuously with his daughters in a cave (Gen 13:12; Gen 19:14, 16, 20, 36). Yet we are taught by the Spirit Lot was a just and righteous man, saved by the glorious grace of God by Christ's obedience (II Pet 2:7-9).

What about the rich young ruler? Though he chose his riches over Christ, Jesus loved him; and he went away sorrowful - two marks of a man with eternal life (Mark 10:17-27). Jesus hates the wicked (Ps 5:5; Matt 7:23); and only spiritual men desire to follow Christ. Riches are a strong obstacle to obedience; but salvation by an omnipotent God is easy even in such cases.

What about Israel in the wilderness? They ate and drank spiritually of Jesus Christ, which is to have eternal life (I Cor 10:1-4); but they were disobedient and rebellious (I Cor 10:5). Yet God chose them, chastened them, called them children, and loved them (Deu 7:6-8; 8:5; 14:1; 33:1-3).

What about blinded Israel? Paul declares that a portion of elect Israel was blinded to the gospel, so that though they were enemies of the gospel, they were beloved in election (Rom 11:25-32).

What about infants? There is no doctrine of salvation on earth that consistently and Scripturally provides for infants, except the truth of unconditional salvation. Since eternal life is entirely by God's grace in Jesus Christ, dying elect infants are saved the same way as all other sinners.

 

[GodsGrace]

wondering says "You are misleading persons into thinking they can never lose their salvation no matter what type of life they live."

I don't see where Genesis is saying this/
Can you point it out to me?

Genesis is not saying this because she's a mature Christian.
However, what she's saying can mislead a new Christian.
I never imply or assume Christian's are living a life of sin...
But this impression could be given to someone new in the faith.

The early Christian's didn't have a concept of eternal salvation.
Were they wrong or are we?

What changed to make us believe it cannot be lost.
Cannot post scripture now.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Genesis is not saying this because she's a mature Christian.
However, what she's saying can mislead a new Christian.
I never imply or assume Christian's are living a life of sin...
But this impression could be given to someone new in the faith.

The early Christian's didn't have a concept of eternal salvation.
We're they wrong or are we?

What changed to make us believe it cannot be lost.
Cannot post scripture now.

I don't know what changed it.
I wasn't there.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't know what changed it.
I wasn't there.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

If you were there, you'd be 500 years old.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

If you were there, you'd be 500 years old.

I musta just missed it...

 

[GodsGrace]

I musta just missed it...

Hey,,,
You're livin' in it, as evidenced by these osas threads.