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As the Roman prince, Titus Flavius ended sacrifice with the destruction of the temple. He became a prince in a sense as his father became the emperor.

As far as Roman Jews, this could have some relevance:
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013/10/did-modern-jews-originate-italy

Possibly some of the Roman Catholics under this reasoning could have come from the same stock. Once again the Flavius Royal family has first century converts to Judaism and Christianity.
 
The future antichrist has to have some Jewish bloodline in order to be accepted as the “messiah” by the Jews.


However, that does not discount the fact that he will come from among the “people” who destroyed the city and sanctuary.

The “prince who is to come” is from among the people who destroyed the city and sanctuary. The Romans.


And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; Daniel 9:26-27


The Roman prince will confirm a covenant that will allow the temple to be built.

The Roman prince will put an end to sacrifice and offering.


JLB
You have been shown clearly that the Antichrist in Daniel 11:37 will be a Jew, and you twist this into a Jewish ruler from Rome, Big Smiles!
 
As the Roman prince, Titus Flavius ended sacrifice with the destruction of the temple. He became a prince in a sense as his father became the emperor.

As far as Roman Jews, this could have some relevance:
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013/10/did-modern-jews-originate-italy

Possibly some of the Roman Catholics under this reasoning could have come from the same stock. Once again the Flavius Royal family has first century converts to Judaism and Christianity.
You are following the false "Preterist" scenario of 70 AD fulfillment of Matthew Chapter 24, this is future, not fulfilled.

If you are a "Partial Preterist" I would be more than willing to dialogue with you on the chapter, start a thread?
 
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Just because the antichrist goes to the temple and proclaims himself as God doesn’t mean that Jerusalem is the city that rules the kings of the earth.


You are trying to force that.


I have answered your questions with scripture.


I ask you to please answer 1 of mine.


I'm discussing the context of Revelation 17 and 18 which is about Babylon the mother of harlots, the city that rules over the kings of the earth.


Mystery Babylon.


Here is your scripture:


8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. Revelation 11:8


Can you please point out in this verse that you cited, in which you have claimed that I have disregarded, where the word "Babylon" is mentioned?

You are trying to force Babylon in to being Jerusalem when only Sodom and Egypt are mentioned.


JLB

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Jerusalem is the fulfillment of Revelation 17:18, simple, as the Antichrist from Jerusalem will reign over the Kings on the earth.

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You are following the false "Preterist" scenario of 70 AD fulfillment of Matthew Chapter 24, this is future, not fulfilled.

If you are a "Partial Preterist" I would be more than willing to dialogue with you on the chapter, start a thread?

What would be the point? Whatever my opinion is on that matter it won't change. Neither will yours. So the only goal would be to propagate primacy of your position to onlookers. They I argue will probably also believe what they want but let's save the trouble right now.

This is a proclamation to the site and any future members and lurkers. I instruct from this moment on to not agree with or believe anything I have ever posted from this moment forth.
 
Under Roman power no subjugated land could execute anyone without Roman consent. That is why Jesus was crucified by pilate,and died via the roman means for a non citizen abd Paul being a Roman died via beheading .
 
Your interpretation is in error, as the King of Daniel 11:37 is the future antichrist of Daniel that will bring the Abomination of desolation as seen in Matthew 24:15 below.

The very clear scripture below proves your interpretation of this being fulfilled in Babylon, during the time of Nimrod- Nebuchadnezzar 100% false.

Jesus Christ spoke of this being "Unfulfilled" in his life, as seen below in Matthew 24:15, will you be corrected in your error?

(Quote, for_his_glory: "That attitude is not going to get you very far with many of us in here. Pride goeth before a fall".)

Matthew 24:15KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Daniel 11:31-37KJV
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.
36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Where have I ever displayed a bad attitude in any of my post or even demanded everyone to believe me. I am always opened for correction when it is needed as the Holy Spirit has always sent others to me for correction.

Where did I say this future king was not the last antichrist to come before the return of Christ? Daniel 11:36-45 is all about this willful king that is described in Matthew 24:15 and 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12.

The reason I used Nimrod was to show how many throughout the generations and the generations to come until Christ returns have rebelled against the God of his father, Daniel 11:37, just as the last antichrist/son of perdition who will claim himself being God.
 
You must understand that America is indeed written of in prophecy for there are many scriptures which still have their fulfillment to come before the return of Christ.
.

Jesus can come back anytime. He's not waiting for anything in Scripture to yet be fulfilled


Trump's new policy of "Make America Great Again" signals the end of the status quo.

It attempts to RESTORE the status quo - of about 65 years ago.



As we look to our own affairs and as he begins to call out the other nations for not doing their part, we fulfill this scripture which is written:

Ah, you destroyer, who yourself have not been destroyed, you traitor, whom none has betrayed! When you have ceased to destroy, you will be destroyed; and when you have finished betraying, they will betray you. ~Isaiah 33:1

This is a laughable misapplication not only of Scripture, but also of basic English.
You are trying to use God to push your own political opinion.

We have funded the military defense of most of the world, going into crushing debt to do so; meanwhile those who benefit despise us. Continuing down that path is a fool's errand, and unsustainable. Repenting of it destroys no one. This is not the sort of issue God has ever destroyed Nations over.
 
Iron: Macedonia under Alexander
Clay: Seleucia under Seleucus I Nicator

It would be good to discuss how these two fit what Daniel said about the iron and the clay in 2:41-43.

I don't know enough about Nicator to know if this fits or not.

George Washington had no close ties to NYC; just both part of the same fledgling Nation. He was inaugurated there, and the votes were counted there. It remained as the meeting spot for Congress for about 4years, and was the NINTH location to serve as US Capitol.
 
Then the 490 year pattern... drastic religious and Political changes have been happening on a schedule of 490 years...we are way shy of another shift for 150 years yet. (Roughly not exactly)

This is not something I have recognized; could you expound on this?
 
What would be the point? Whatever my opinion is on that matter it won't change. Neither will yours. So the only goal would be to propagate primacy of your position to onlookers. They I argue will probably also believe what they want but let's save the trouble right now.

This is a proclamation to the site and any future members and lurkers. I instruct from this moment on to not agree with or believe anything I have ever posted from this moment forth.
No need for you to respond, this is for those unfamiliar with "Partial Preterism"

Partial Preterist believe and teach that "Daniels Abomination Of Desolation" in verse 15, and the "Great Tribulation" seen in verse 21 took place in the 70AD Roman destruction of Jerusalem?

The "Time Stamp" proves this teaching false, as the Abomination Of Desolation in verse 15, causes the Great Tribulation in verse 21, verse 29 clearly teaches "Immediately After The Tribulation Of Those Days" as seen in verse 21 Jesus Christ returns in his second advent, and we know that this return is "Future"

As scripture clearly teaches all the events explained are tied together inseparable, and are "Future Events" unfulfilled.

Matthew 24:15-31KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
 
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You continue to explore historic accounts, and proclaim the Antichrist is some governmental power?

The future "Beast" will be a human man of Jewish decent, Rome and 1929 has absolutely nothing to do with this future figure the "Beast".

One can not separate history from studying scripture as it all goes together for our learning of the times and cultures. There is a one world government power that has always been throughout every nation on earth since 753BC that was, was not, and yet to come, Daniel 7; Rev 17:7-18, and it's within this system that the man of sin being human called antichrist/ son of perdition will come out from, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12; 1 John 2:18, 19. He is not a Jew, but will take his literal seat in Jerusalem as history we will see history repeating itself in the end of days.

The four Empires of Daniel 7 with the last one still in existence today have always persecuted, even to death, those who are of God and even Christ did they crucify in their fashion.
 
One can not separate history from studying scripture as it all goes together for our learning of the times and cultures. There is a one world government power that has always been throughout every nation on earth since 753BC that was, was not, and yet to come, Daniel 7; Rev 17:7-18, and it's within this system that the man of sin being human called antichrist/ son of perdition will come out from, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12; 1 John 2:18, 19. He is not a Jew, but will take his literal seat in Jerusalem as history we will see history repeating itself in the end of days.

The four Empires of Daniel 7 with the last one still in existence today have always persecuted, even to death, those who are of God and even Christ did they crucify in their fashion.

The scripture clearly teaches that the Antichrist will be a "Jew", how can you deny the presented scripture?

The future "Antichrist" of Daniel will be a "Jew" he will not regard the God of his fathers, the Hebrew God.

Daniel 11:37 below describes the future Antichrist as giving no regard to his father's God, a Hebrew/Jew.

"God of his fathers" is used (8) times in the Holy Bible, and you are looking at all (8) below, all pertaining to the Israel/Hebrew/Jew.

Daniel 11:37
Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Genesis 46:1 below establishes "God of his fathers" belonging specifically to "Israel" Hebrew/Jew.

I pray you can see your very clear error?

Genesis 46:1
And Israel took his journey with all that he had, and came to Beersheba, and offered sacrifices unto the God of his father Isaac.

2 Kings 21:22
And he forsook the Lord God of his fathers, and walked not in the way of the Lord.

2 Chronicles 17:4
But sought to the Lord God of his father, and walked in his commandments, and not after the doings of Israel.

2 Chronicles 21:10
So the Edomites revolted from under the hand of Judah unto this day. The same time also did Libnah revolt from under his hand; because he had forsaken the Lord God of his fathers.

2 Chronicles 28:25
And in every several city of Judah he made high places to burn incense unto other gods, and provoked to anger the Lord God of his fathers.

2 Chronicles 30:19
That prepareth his heart to seek God, the Lord God of his fathers, though he be not cleansed according to the purification of the sanctuary.

2 Chronicles 33:12
And when he was in affliction, he besought the Lord his God, and humbled himself greatly before the God of his fathers,
 
The scripture clearly teaches that the Antichrist will be a "Jew", how can you deny the presented scripture?

The future "Antichrist" of Daniel will be a "Jew" he will not regard the God of his fathers, the Hebrew God.

Daniel 11:37 below describes the future Antichrist as giving no regard to his father's God, a Hebrew/Jew.

"God of his fathers" is used (8) times in the Holy Bible, and you are looking at all (8) below, all pertaining to the Israel/Hebrew/Jew.

Daniel 11:37
Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Genesis 46:1 below establishes "God of his fathers" belonging specifically to "Israel" Hebrew/Jew.

I pray you can see your very clear error?

Genesis 46:1
And Israel took his journey with all that he had, and came to Beersheba, and offered sacrifices unto the God of his father Isaac.

2 Kings 21:22
And he forsook the Lord God of his fathers, and walked not in the way of the Lord.

2 Chronicles 17:4
But sought to the Lord God of his father, and walked in his commandments, and not after the doings of Israel.

2 Chronicles 21:10
So the Edomites revolted from under the hand of Judah unto this day. The same time also did Libnah revolt from under his hand; because he had forsaken the Lord God of his fathers.

2 Chronicles 28:25
And in every several city of Judah he made high places to burn incense unto other gods, and provoked to anger the Lord God of his fathers.

2 Chronicles 30:19
That prepareth his heart to seek God, the Lord God of his fathers, though he be not cleansed according to the purification of the sanctuary.

2 Chronicles 33:12
And when he was in affliction, he besought the Lord his God, and humbled himself greatly before the God of his fathers,
imo God of his fathers could be any group - an african voodoo tribe has a god of their fathers

there are no caps in the original hebrew or greek so it most likely says god of his fathers

in the passages you quoted we know for sure those people were jews so the Lord God God of their fathers would be YHVH

in Revelation we don't know who the person is so the god of his fathers could be the norse god for all we know
 
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Jerusalem is the "Great City" spoken of in Revelation chapters 17-18, why do you disregard the presented scriptural truth?

In Revelation 11:8 "The Great City" is identified as Jerusalem where Jesus Christ was crucified, why do you deny this truth?

Jerusalem Is Mystery Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots!

Jerusalem Is Guilty Of All The Earths Blood, And That Of The Prophets, As Rev 18:24 States.

"Rome Didn't Exist To Be Guilty Of The Prophets Blood"

Revelation 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Matthew 23:30-37KJV
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth,from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Jerusalem Is The "Great City" Where The Lord Was Crucified

Revelation 11:8KJV
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Revelation 14:8KJV
And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Revelation 17:18KJV
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Revelation 18:10KJV
Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

The Jewish Levitical Priesthood was clothed in purple, scarlet, precious stones and gold.

Revelation 17:4KJV
And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Exodus 39:8-13KJV
8 And he made the breastplate of cunning work, like the work of the ephod; of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen.
9 It was foursquare; they made the breastplate double: a span was the length thereof, and a span the breadth thereof, being doubled.
10 And they set in it four rows of stones: the first row was a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this was the first row.
11 And the second row, an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
12 And the third row, a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
13 And the fourth row, a beryl, an onyx, and a jasper: they were inclosed in ouches of gold in their inclosings.

Ezekiel 16:15-16KJV
15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.
16 And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlotthereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.

Jerusalem Is Built Upon Seven Hills/Mountains, Just As Rome

Revelation 17:9KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

The Seven Hills Of Jerusalem, By Ernest L. Martin, Ph.D.

the City of Jerusalem as it existed in the time of Christ Jesus was also reckoned to be the "City of Seven Hills." This fact was well recognized in Jewish circles. In the Pirke de-Rabbi Eliezer, an 8th century midrashic narrative (section 10), the writer mentioned without commentary (showing that the understanding was well known and required no defense) that "Jerusalem is situated on seven hills"(recorded in The Book of Legends, edited by Bialik and Ravnitzky, p. 371, paragraph 111). And, so it was. Those "seven hills" are easy to identify.

If one starts with the Mount of Olives just to the east of the main City of Jerusalem (but still reckoned to be located within the environs of Jerusalem), there are three summits to that Mount of Olives:
  1. The northern summit (hill) is called Scopus [Hill One],
  2. The middle summit (hill) was called Nob [Hill Two],
  3. The highest point of Olivet itself, and the southern summit (hill) was called in the Holy Scriptures the "Mount of Corruption" or "Mount of Offence" [Hill Three] (II Kings 23:13).
  4. On the middle ridge between the Kedron and the Tyropoeon Valleys there was (formerly) in the south "Mount Zion" [Hill Four] (the original "Mount Zion" and not the later southwest hill that was later called by that name),
  5. The "Ophel Mount" [Hill Five],
  6. To the north of that the "Rock" around which "Fort Antonia" was built [Hill Six],
  7. And finally, there was the southwest hill itself [Hill Seven] that finally became known in the time of Simon the Hasmonean as the new "Mount Zion."

The great city, not capitalized in scripture, has always been the Holy City of Jerusalem, even though Babylon was a great city before it's destruction by the Persians in 539BC. Jesus was not crucified in Jerusalem, but outside the walls of Jerusalem on a hill in Golgatha that was also part of the Roman government in Jerusalem at the time of Christ and crucified Jesus according to their custom.

Rev 17 and 18 speaks of mystery Babylon as it is even a mystery to those today that have no understanding (not directed at you). In Rev 17 the great harlot rides the beast so the harlot can not be both the harlot and the beast. The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them as even today these nations are controlled by the Roman Empire, Daniel 7:23-25; Rev 13, 17, that would love nothing less then to escape this ruling power.

These ten nations were the Anglo-Saxons (English), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

In Rev 17, 18, 19 the great harlot (son of perdition/last antichrist) is described and then destroyed along with the beast being the existing Roman Empire. The earth bewails their destruction as they were made rich by the merchandise of this woman. In the NT the term woman is used as a symbol for a church. The woman mentioned in Rev 12 is the true Church of God as she is carried away into the wilderness and taken care of by God.

This woman in Rev 17 sitting on a scarlet beast is a spiritual harlot as she entered into adulterous alliances with the leaders an kings of every nation around the world including America. Rev 18 describes all these worldly leaders and kings fornicated with her and will bewail her destruction. In her was found the blood of the prophets and the saints and all that were slain on earth.

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. 8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. 9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
 
feed9f3d08e4317e364194d3fb26736b--hats-donkeys.jpg

Moderator Hat ON
Ok guys,

lets all calm down.
eschatology is a study that has many different opinions. No two people seem to share the same view point. No matter what "incontrovertible plain scripture" you believe that you have presented and the other person seems to ignore.

the end isn't likely to be tomorrow...and if it is your arguing is pointless.

John's Apocalypse is deliberately not plain and clear. Try as we might...no one knows exactly the days and hours the Final Eschaton is coming. Jesus'arrival as a baby was obvious and plain in scriptures...and no one came except for the Wise Men....who can figure out the end when it's deliberately obfuscated?

so having a theory is fine.... arguing to try to get someone else to believe as you do? Pointless.
 
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