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In My Opinion

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#1
I'm sitting here having a bowl of honey nut cheerios and when I'm done, I'll pour myself a cup of coffee.

It's time for some casual talk and fellowship.
It's time for us all to share our opinions.
Today's opinion is John Calvin.
I never met the man so I don't have a first opinion.
I never read a book by him so I don't have a first opinion there either.

But it's easy to pick up 2nd opinions.
I believe I've read that book.
I use to refer to it as part of the New Apochrypha.

John Calvin, in my opinion, is in the book of 2nd opinions.
You see, there are first opinions of the Bible and then there are 2nd opinions.
Many people have written in the book of 2nd opinions.
Charles Russell, Joseph Smith, Ellen White, and many others, including John Calvin.

2nd Opinions is a popular book.
There seems to be as many people who want to debate the contents this book as much as they will debate the Word of God, the Holy Bible.
Some will debate 2nd opinions altogether, ignoring as much as possible the the Word of God, the Holy Bible.

Time out, it's time to get my coffee.

Yes, good coffee, now where was I?

I think there is a place in our lives for the book of 2nd opinions.
Because everyone has an opinion, right or wrong, and we all need the opportunity to express those opinions.
Sometimes I feel we don't hear others and only hear ourselves.
And we miss out a lot that way, especially if the other person happens to be right.

But of course, in my opinion and yours, we know we're right.
 
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#2
Russell, White, Smith, are not in the same category as Calvin.
They ADDED to scripture.
Calvin exegeted existing scripture, but, alas not correctly.

Calvin and Luther agreed with each other on some issues, but not all.
This is from Wikipedia.
Do you agree with it?


*************************************************************************************
He defined justification as "the acceptance by which God regards us as righteous whom he has received into grace."[96] In this definition, it is clear that it is God who initiates and carries through the action and that people play no role; God is completely sovereign in salvation.[97] Near the end of the book, Calvin describes and defends the doctrine of predestination, a doctrine advanced by Augustine in opposition to the teachings of Pelagius. Fellow theologians who followed the Augustinian tradition on this point included Thomas Aquinas and Martin Luther,[98] though Calvin's formulation of the doctrine went further than the tradition that went before him.[99] The principle, in Calvin's words, is that "All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death."[100]
 
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#3
Russell, White, Smith, are not in the same category as Calvin.
They ADDED to scripture.
Calvin exegeted existing scripture, but, alas not correctly.

Calvin and Luther agreed with each other on some issues, but not all.
This is from Wikipedia.
Do you agree with it?


*************************************************************************************
He defined justification as "the acceptance by which God regards us as righteous whom he has received into grace."[96] In this definition, it is clear that it is God who initiates and carries through the action and that people play no role; God is completely sovereign in salvation.[97] Near the end of the book, Calvin describes and defends the doctrine of predestination, a doctrine advanced by Augustine in opposition to the teachings of Pelagius. Fellow theologians who followed the Augustinian tradition on this point included Thomas Aquinas and Martin Luther,[98] though Calvin's formulation of the doctrine went further than the tradition that went before him.[99] The principle, in Calvin's words, is that "All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death."[100]
NO!
 

Knotical

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#5
Russell, White, Smith, are not in the same category as Calvin.
They ADDED to scripture.
Calvin exegeted existing scripture, but, alas not correctly.

Calvin and Luther agreed with each other on some issues, but not all.
This is from Wikipedia.
Do you agree with it?


*************************************************************************************
He defined justification as "the acceptance by which God regards us as righteous whom he has received into grace."[96] In this definition, it is clear that it is God who initiates and carries through the action and that people play no role; God is completely sovereign in salvation.[97] Near the end of the book, Calvin describes and defends the doctrine of predestination, a doctrine advanced by Augustine in opposition to the teachings of Pelagius. Fellow theologians who followed the Augustinian tradition on this point included Thomas Aquinas and Martin Luther,[98] though Calvin's formulation of the doctrine went further than the tradition that went before him.[99] The principle, in Calvin's words, is that "All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death."[100]
Which parts did Calvin get wrong? In your opinion?
 
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#6
Which parts did Calvin get wrong? In your opinion?
May I answer?

Calvinism teaches that Jesus' atonement on the Cross was limited, that is, that He died only for a chosen group, His "elect," not for the sins of the entire world. I believe that Jesus died on the Cross for all sins of all people, and that anyone who wants to can accept Him as Lord and Savior and be born again.

Secondly, I reject the Calvinistic teaching called "irresistible grace," which is the belief that man cannot, even if he wants to, resist the wooing and calling of God to salvation. Instead, I believe that man has a free will and he can resist the call of God if he chooses to do so.
 

Knotical

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#7
May I answer?

Calvinism teaches that Jesus' atonement on the Cross was limited, that is, that He died only for a chosen group, His "elect," not for the sins of the entire world. I believe that Jesus died on the Cross for all sins of all people, and that anyone who wants to can accept Him as Lord and Savior and be born again.

Secondly, I reject the Calvinistic teaching called "irresistible grace," which is the belief that man cannot, even if he wants to, resist the wooing and calling of God to salvation. Instead, I believe that man has a free will and he can resist the call of God if he chooses to do so.
So you don't believe that God already knew before the world was formed who He would call to Himself and would ultimately be saved?

Calvin backed his assertions with scripture. Where are is your scriptural support showing that he is wrong?
 
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#8
So you don't believe that God already knew before the world was formed who He would call to Himself and would ultimately be saved?

Calvin backed his assertions with scripture. Where are is your scriptural support showing that he is wrong?
You, as a moderator, should know this is not a debate forum.
I brought up Calvin in a casual discussion.
If you wish to debate anything he ever said or believed, you should go to the appropriate forum and start a thread on it.
I made it a point from the start that this thread was based on opinions, nothing more.
 

Free

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#9
You, as a moderator, should know this is not a debate forum.
There is nothing to suggest it isn't....If you are going to make truth claims, you need to be prepared to give a reason as to why you believe they are true.
 
J

Justicewolf

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#12
Sitting with a casual cup of tea in a relaxed atmosphere where debate takes a rest at this forums door...


I can't help but notice , don't let my post count fool ya, that as a relative new arrival still, that there is a decided issue with John. And Calvinism.
Even in other debate forums where the door is wide open for such stuff, one can be accused of being a Calvinist just for speaking at all.
John, like unto another dead male in history, insured he'd live forever creating a doctrine named after himself, while wrapping his legacy around the scriptures he believed spoke his language.
And Jesus came to bring his sheep together. But what divides, but the mind of man? That thinks denominationalism like stepping stones lead what was the path to Christ, away into sectarian disputes over the value of who's is right.


Sugar?
 
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#13
Do you think it's ok to read someone's post stating that God picks some persons to be saved and not others without making a comment?
It's very difficult for me to let this just pass by.

What if someone said something mean about a spouse?
Shouldn't they be corrected?
 

ezra

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#14
My opinion too many folks accept Scofield's notes as truth
i have a scofield study bible do i accept his notes as truth? some i have some i have not . as per john calvin he was just a man . yes i reject his teaching on salvation . no Doubt God knows who will and when they will be saved or the fact they will not. calvinism as a whole is just like any thing else. something a man studied and got a group of followers yes i reject irresistible Grace the ones God chooses can not reject God.. i believe in Free will God allows us to accept when he calls . it takes a willing heart . i like jay mcgee he is a calvinist . but nothing like piper or MacArthur both good men of God . i try my best to get it of my own.... my belief is based upon study
 

ezra

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#15
Do you think it's ok to read someone's post stating that God picks some persons to be saved and not others without making a comment?
It's very difficult for me to let this just pass by.

What if someone said something mean about a spouse?
Shouldn't they be corrected?
the way i look st . what we are dealing with is interruptions a conversation i had with a lady about general baptist verse missionary Baptist i explained it her being missionary saying eternal security was Bible ... we all see scripture in a different way
 
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#16
the way i look st . what we are dealing with is interruptions a conversation i had with a lady about general baptist verse missionary Baptist i explained it her being missionary saying eternal security was Bible ... we all see scripture in a different way
Hi Ezra

Here you're speaking about eternal security which would be the P in TULIP.
Perseverance of the saints.
Of course, in Calvinism free will does not exist except within God's will so God will make sure that you are saved till you die.

This is also known as eternal security or OSAS.

Although the Bible clearly states that salvation depends on our enduring till the end, or our remaining with Jesus till we die in order to be saved, those that believe osas do not change the nature and character of God.

Calvin, with his doctrine, changes the nature and character of God and renders God unrecognizable.
There is only one God.
But Calvinists are serving a different god than other Christian's

This is the major problem with Calvinism, imo
 
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#17
Sitting with a casual cup of tea in a relaxed atmosphere where debate takes a rest at this forums door...


I can't help but notice , don't let my post count fool ya, that as a relative new arrival still, that there is a decided issue with John. And Calvinism.
Even in other debate forums where the door is wide open for such stuff, one can be accused of being a Calvinist just for speaking at all.
John, like unto another dead male in history, insured he'd live forever creating a doctrine named after himself, while wrapping his legacy around the scriptures he believed spoke his language.
And Jesus came to bring his sheep together. But what divides, but the mind of man? That thinks denominationalism like stepping stones lead what was the path to Christ, away into sectarian disputes over the value of who's is right.


Sugar?
So we post to show we're right?
Sounds rather prideful.
Pride,,,at the base of most sins.
So why do You post?

And Calvin is as easy as denominalationism?
I've never seen anyone here debate which denomination is right or wrong.
We tend to debate doctrine.
 

ezra

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#18
Hi Ezra

Here you're speaking about eternal security which would be the P in TULIP.
Perseverance of the saints.
Of course, in Calvinism free will does not exist except within God's will so God will make sure that you are saved till you die.

This is also known as eternal security or OSAS.

Although the Bible clearly states that salvation depends on our enduring till the end, or our remaining with Jesus till we die in order to be saved, those that believe osas do not change the nature and character of God.

Calvin, with his doctrine, changes the nature and character of God and renders God unrecognizable.
There is only one God.
But Calvinists are serving a different god than other Christian's

This is the major problem with Calvinism, imo
i have done lots f posting in carm with the calv armn section... it gets rather intense at times... i have STUDIED OUT CALVINISM ..they have some good points some i dont agree with p.o.s is those who are truly saved will stay with it...i lean that direction but not in a full agreement . i also lean toward the eternal security doctrine but not in full agreement with the southern baptist teaching either.. i have my own belief from studying the scriptures . Church of Christ feel they are the true Church the apostolic feel same way ..no name tags in heaven either are or are not this imo
 
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#19
Which parts did Calvin get wrong? In your opinion?
Everything.
Total depravity...
We are fallen, but even the unsaved do good deeds. Man yearns to be civil.
We are not totally depraved,,,wouldn't that make doing good deeds impossible?

Unconditional Election
My very mostest favorite by far.
God chooses who will be saved and who will go to hell.
Based on what? Nothing!
Nice god Calvin thought up.

Limited Atonement
Jesus died only for the preselected lucky few.
But he said He would draw ALL men to Him!
Guess all doesn't really mean all...

Irresistible Grace
I must accept God's calling to salvation.
I have no free will and I'm one of the lucky few.
How could I ever , however, be sure I'm AM one of the lucky few since I had no part in the decision to serve God? What if I just Think I've been chosen because I don't want to go to hell?

Perseverance of the Saints
IF I am one of the lucky few, God will see to it that I make it to heaven.
No free will in getting saved,
No free will EVER.
To bad for the unchosen. Oh well...they would have ended up in h ell anyway.
God was just soooooo good to pick some for heaven.
Sigh.

John 3:16 destroys the tulip.
 
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JLB

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#20
John Calvin, in my opinion, is in the book of 2nd opinions.
You see, there are first opinions of the Bible and then there are 2nd opinions.
Many people have written in the book of 2nd opinions.
Charles Russell, Joseph Smith, Ellen White, and many others, including John Calvin.
:salute
 
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