In the clouds

[Edward]

No, we are priests of God and the Kingdom of God.

IMHO

iakov the fool

Yeah, that's what I meant.

 

[Jim Parker]

The second heaven and earth is the Kingdom that comes without observation and is within. Some people can't see it because they won't accept it. There still baptized in Jesus burial, looking up to the sky from hell saying 'when will the Lord return' because they have rejected Christ and the truth.

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
The Kingdom of God is within believers because that is where God rules. The Greek word translated "Kingdom" (βασιλεύς) primarily refers to the reign or rule of the king rather than the territory of a kingdom.

The Pharisees, to whom Jesus said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke17:20-21) quite likely had in mind a restored physical kingdom of Israel in which the subjects of the king, a descendant of David, adhered strictly to the Law of Moses to come to be when God destroyed all of His enemies.

The Lord will return and when He does he will restore the entire universe, all of creation, to the original purity and perfection in which He created it before the fall. And when He does return, He will rule in person.

Rev 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become
the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ,
and He shall reign forever and ever!”


iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)


DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
The Kingdom of God is within believers because that is where God rules. The Greek word translated "Kingdom" (βασιλεύς) primarily refers to the reign or rule of the king rather than the territory of a kingdom.

The Pharisees, to whom Jesus said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke17:20-21) quite likely had in mind a restored physical kingdom of Israel in which the subjects of the king, a descendant of David, adhered strictly to the Law of Moses to come to be when God destroyed all of His enemies.

The Lord will return and when He does he will restore the entire universe, all of creation, to the original purity and perfection in which He created it before the fall. And when He does return, He will rule in person.

Rev 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become
the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ,
and He shall reign forever and ever!”


iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)


DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

The whole bible has a rainbow and parable underneath the ink. Its all based in the relationship between the Father and the Son and the rule of law.

The law is completely useless. Tell me one law in any nation on earth that does not get broken. The only thing law does is put people in a oppressed ball and chain and fills prisons why the King of Babylon sits on his throne.

Spiritual 'law' however if different. Its what Jesus walked on earth, and he was blameless.

Jesus wont rule in person at all, when all are changed and he restores all things he wont need to rule over anyone, he will dwell with them like a true King, just like he did the sinners when he walked this earth, everyone expecting the Messiah to be a King sitting on a throne ruling over the people is not the example God sent as the image of a true King. A true King serves his people and dwells with his people and cares and looks after his people , he doesn't rule with tyrant laws from a throne while eating a luxury buffet why being massaged by multiple beautiful women. Thats mans image of a King that rules through the rule of Law. Man ruling over man.

Jesus will not rule over anyone. Everyone will be in harmony and clean he doesn't need to rule over anyone, everyone will be living in spiritual law, exact the same as Christ walked on this earth.

The body of Christ, people find this hard to swallow but we are Christ. We are all a part of Christ. The good part that dwells inside us, that we all have, is Christ, and that goodness grows within believers. The light grows and the darkness fades away. We are created beings and have life. God and Christ are the Life and Light of the world. Once the man of sin is taken out the way that Christ spiritually destroys by the breath of his mouth, the crookedness within us, we will walk pure.

Where the Spirit is there is Liberty and Christ is that Spirit.

 

[Johan]

Not "within," "among":

Luk 17:21 nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or 'There!' for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you." (ESV)

Just look to whom Jesus was talking. There would be no way he would or even could say that the kingdom of God was within the Pharisees. The kingdom isn't in men, men are in the kingdom.

We can try and understand . .and reason . . .and discuss . .and think we understand better . . .but:

Ultimately it boils down to what is experienced in the Spirit . . .as only God can really reveal what He meant

1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

As we need this relationship with God . . . . and only there . . .with God speaking . . . .growth is established.

1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

Only this way the new creation is established.
Jer 18:6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.

Love Johan

 

[Free]

We can try and understand . .and reason . . .and discuss . .and think we understand better . . .but:

Ultimately it boils down to what is experienced in the Spirit . . .as only God can really reveal what He meant

Not really. God created us in his image as rational beings. He also communicated his revelation to us in human language through human writers. This means that we can use our reasoning to understand most of what is being said.

In this case, it is very simple. Jesus is speaking to the Pharisees, those Jewish leaders who were "hypocrites," "full of greed and self-indulgence," "blind," "whitewashed tombs," "serpents," "vipers," leading the people astray. There is simply no way that Jesus would say that the kingdom of God was "within" them. It was "among" them because of his presence and the works which he performed.

1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

As we need this relationship with God . . . . and only there . . .with God speaking . . . .growth is established.

1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

Only this way the new creation is established.
Jer 18:6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.

I don't see how any of that addresses what I posted.

 

[Johan]

Not really. God created us in his image as rational beings. He also communicated his revelation to us in human language through human writers. This means that we can use our reasoning to understand most of what is being said.

In this case, it is very simple. Jesus is speaking to the Pharisees, those Jewish leaders who were "hypocrites," "full of greed and self-indulgence," "blind," "whitewashed tombs," "serpents," "vipers," leading the people astray. There is simply no way that Jesus would say that the kingdom of God was "within" them. It was "among" them because of his presence and the works which he performed.


I don't see how any of that addresses what I posted.

Not really. God created us in his image as rational beings.
SURE . . .BUT THAT "RATIONAL" CANNOT COMPREHEND GOD.

1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
AS WE SIMPLY DO NOT KNOW "knoweth no man" AND NEED THE SPIRIT BY WHICH WE KNOW "that we might know"

He also communicated his revelatiion

AND THIS SAY EXACTLY THAT . . .THAT WE NEED REVELATION

to us in human language through human writers. This means that we can use our reasoning to understand most of what is being said.

AND THIS IS CONTRADICTING AGAIN . . .. EVEN THE "most" SPEAK OF THE UNCERTAINTY OF UNDERSTANDING WITH OUR INHERENT, HUMAN, SINFUL CAPACITY

In this case, it is very simple.

IT IS NEVER "simple" . . BECAUSE WE DO NOT KNOW "knoweth no man"

Jesus is speaking to the Pharisees, those Jewish leaders who were "hypocrites," "full of greed and self-indulgence," "blind," "whitewashed tombs," "serpents," "vipers," leading the people astray. There is simply no way that Jesus would say that the kingdom of God was "within" them. It was "among" them because of his presence and the works which he performed.

YEP . . .THERE IS A WAY . . .IN GOD'S MIND . . .NOT JUDGING THEM AND US . .. BECAUSE WE ARE BUT THE SAME . . . AND GIVING THEM AND US THE WORD . . .USING THE OPPORTUNITY TO TEACH EVERYONE . . .WHERE THE KINGDOM IS .. . BECAUSE OF HIM IN US.

I don't see how any of that addresses what I posted.

OK . . .I TRIED AGAIN.

LOVE JOHAN

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

Moses raise the Serpant.

“Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness?.There is no bread! There is no water!. And we detest this miserable food!” Then the Lord sent venomous snakes among them; they bit the people and many Israelites died."


"The Lord said to Moses, “Make a snake and put it up on a pole anyone who is bitten can look at it and live. So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived."

 

[Edward]

Not really. God created us in his image as rational beings. He also communicated his revelation to us in human language through human writers. This means that we can use our reasoning to understand most of what is being said.

Yes, really. God did not create us in His image as rational beings. We were created in His image as spiritual beings and without intellect. It doesn't work that way with spiritual beings. We gained our rational self when we gained the knowledge of good and evil. (After we fell).

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

One simple law. Do not eat from the tree of knowledge. Thats all it takes for temptation and sin to come forth, a single law. Thats all it take for man to be ruling over man. For a King to sit on his throne and rule over people.

"Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died."

 

[ezrider]

Yes, really. God did not create us in His image as rational beings. We were created in His image as spiritual beings and without intellect. It doesn't work that way with spiritual beings. We gained our rational self when we gained the knowledge of good and evil. (After we fell).

Can you expound on your meaning as "rational" beings? Adam walked and talked with the Lord in the Garden, how could he do that without intellect? I can't accept that. Sorry. I would say we were created as intellectually rational beings, learning through reason and experience, applying common sense to a situation as we see it.

It is through the knowledge of good and evil that we become irrational beings. Becoming obedient to a law, we ignore our own common sense. That is irrational.

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

Fly in the Sky

 

[Free]

Yes, really. God did not create us in His image as rational beings. We were created in His image as spiritual beings and without intellect. It doesn't work that way with spiritual beings. We gained our rational self when we gained the knowledge of good and evil. (After we fell).

No. We are created in the image of God in a number of ways, including rational. That should go without saying. You are probably the only person in the history of Christianity to argue otherwise. If we weren't, God could not have even communicated with Adam and Adam certainly would not have been able to name the animals.

Please, tell me, with Scriptural proof, how it works "with spiritual beings."

 

[Edward]

No. We are created in the image of God in a number of ways, including rational. That should go without saying. You are probably the only person in the history of Christianity to argue otherwise. If we weren't, God could not have even communicated with Adam and Adam certainly would not have been able to name the animals.

Please, tell me, with Scriptural proof, how it works "with spiritual beings."

No scripture. I learned that from listening to a testimony from a Pastor who was giving a sermon and he recounted a time where he was taken up in spirit and he learned that while there. He says that we dont really talk in the Kingdom realm. That he formed a question while thinking and got his answer sort of like telepathy and in an instant he received it all. That he was able to experience it rather than talk about it. He realized that talking is really one of the worst forms of communication because it is limited and slow.

I believe the man. That makes sense to me.

 

[Free]

No scripture. I learned that from listening to a testimony from a Pastor who was giving a sermon and he recounted a time where he was taken up in spirit and he learned that while there. He says that we dont really talk in the Kingdom realm. That he formed a question while thinking and got his answer sort of like telepathy and in an instant he received it all. That he was able to experience it rather than talk about it. He realized that talking is really one of the worst forms of communication because it is limited and slow.

I believe the man. That makes sense to me.

You're basing a belief on the subjective experience of one man? Do you realize how dangerous and wrong that is? Not to mention you're using your reason to come to a conclusion about spiritual matters. Isn't that against what you believe?

 

[Edward]

You're basing a belief on the subjective experience of one man? Do you realize how dangerous and wrong that is? Not to mention you're using your reason to come to a conclusion about spiritual matters. Isn't that against what you believe?

Reason takes you to a place where a choice is made to have faith in it or not. Mmm, I am basing that on one mans word, but he has said other things that were confirmed for me either by revelation or by 2nd or 3rd witnesses who say the same thing. In the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses shall truth be established.

If I bring to mind the principle of, lean not to our own understanding (et al) I feel the ring of truth in it. We do not use intellect in heaven, that came from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

 

[Free]

Reason takes you to a place where a choice is made to have faith in it or not. Mmm, I am basing that on one mans word, but he has said other things that were confirmed for me either by revelation or by 2nd or 3rd witnesses who say the same thing. In the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses shall truth be established.

So adding more subjective opinions to the mix makes things better? And, please, don't misuse and abuse the Bible in such a way.

Mat 18:15 "If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.
Mat 18:16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. (ESV)

Co 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. Every charge must be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. (ESV)

1Ti 5:19 Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses. (ESV)

Heb 10:26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. (ES)

Notice that in each case it is about bringing a charge against someone. The testimony of two or three witness is only in regards to sin.

If I bring to mind the principle of, lean not to our own understanding (et al) I feel the ring of truth in it.

And that has nothing to do with what we are discussing. Another misapplication of Scripture.

We do not use intellect in heaven, that came from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Please provide evidence for both claims. The only ones who may not use their intellect in heaven will be those who don't use it now.

 

[Edward]

Are you of the position that if it's not in scripture, that there's no possible way it could be true? Then show me cell phone in scripture. Show me automobile and airplane.

Here's a scripture. So that I don't misapply it, would you please give me your take on it?

Daniel 12:4

But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.../

So will they be adding more chapters to the bible or what? Apparently I don't get this verse either. Help a Brother out...

 

[Free]

Are you of the position that if it's not in scripture, that there's no possible way it could be true? Then show me cell phone in scripture. Show me automobile and airplane.

False analogies. We are talking about certain beliefs of yours regarding God and Scripture, beliefs that, so far, have no evidence in Scripture.

Here's a scripture. So that I don't misapply it, would you please give me your take on it?

Daniel 12:4

But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.../

So will they be adding more chapters to the bible or what? Apparently I don't get this verse either. Help a Brother out...

In context it seems to be talking about knowledge of God's purposes as given in the prophecy will increase. But it really isn't all that clear what, exactly, the meaning is.

 

[Free]

Not really. God created us in his image as rational beings.
SURE . . .BUT THAT "RATIONAL" CANNOT COMPREHEND GOD.

Sure it can, at least, it can comprehend a good deal about God.

1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
AS WE SIMPLY DO NOT KNOW "knoweth no man" AND NEED THE SPIRIT BY WHICH WE KNOW "that we might know"

But that has nothing to do with using reason. Here is a better version:

1Co 2:11 For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. (ESV)

The meaning is that we cannot understand God's thoughts. Paul is speaking of the things of which he is writing about; those things that have been revealed to him by the Spirit. What it does not mean is that we cannot use our God-given reasoning to understand things in Scripture. We rely on the Spirit to guide us and bring illumination on difficulties but we are never to shut our brains off, we still use our reasoning.

He also communicated his revelatiion

AND THIS SAY EXACTLY THAT . . .THAT WE NEED REVELATION

No. We have the Bible which is God's revelation to us. We do not need more revelation. The only reason to think we need more revelation is that the Bible is insufficient. Is that what you believe?

to us in human language through human writers. This means that we can use our reasoning to understand most of what is being said.

AND THIS IS CONTRADICTING AGAIN . . .. EVEN THE "most" SPEAK OF THE UNCERTAINTY OF UNDERSTANDING WITH OUR INHERENT, HUMAN, SINFUL CAPACITY

What contradiction? Where was the first contradiction? Reason itself is amoral; there is nothing inherently sinful about it. It's what guides our reason that causes the problems.

In this case, it is very simple.

IT IS NEVER "simple" . . BECAUSE WE DO NOT KNOW "knoweth no man"

Many times it is simple, such as in Luke 17:21. Because the Bible was communicated to us in human languages, we can therefore read and study to come to an understanding of a great many things in Scripture.

Jesus is speaking to the Pharisees, those Jewish leaders who were "hypocrites," "full of greed and self-indulgence," "blind," "whitewashed tombs," "serpents," "vipers," leading the people astray. There is simply no way that Jesus would say that the kingdom of God was "within" them. It was "among" them because of his presence and the works which he performed.

YEP . . .THERE IS A WAY . . .IN GOD'S MIND . . .NOT JUDGING THEM AND US . .. BECAUSE WE ARE BUT THE SAME . . . AND GIVING THEM AND US THE WORD . . .USING THE OPPORTUNITY TO TEACH EVERYONE . . .WHERE THE KINGDOM IS .. . BECAUSE OF HIM IN US.

I don't see how any of that addresses what I posted.

OK . . .I TRIED AGAIN.

I don't understand what you're saying here.

 

[reba]

In the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses shall truth be established.

So i agree with Free