Is Baptism an Ordinance or Command?

[JLB]

I truly can't understand why anyone would think to disregard what Jesus said, and what His Apostles practiced, concerning Baptism.

• And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. Mark 16:15

• Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38

• But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized. Acts 8:12

• 17 And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized. Acts 9:17-18

• 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days. Acts 10:44-48

• 14 Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul. 15 And when she and her household were baptized, she begged us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.” So she persuaded us. Acts 16:14-15

• And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’ Acts 22:16

JLB

 

[eddif]

I met a retired minister once who was raised in India. His sermons often praised the Indians for looking for the god that is within all men. Some eastern religions (I suppose) teach through meditation to arrive somewhere better. As far as I know this is all error, and not Christian.

While we are made with physical imagery of God in us, God is not in us till we invite Him in. This is like the old covenant tabernacle made with certain descriptive elements, but not holy till the Spirit entered. That tabernacle has imagery that relates to us, but is OT / OC temporal imagery.

The NT / NC reality of the new birth (no more imagery / symbolism) is eternal through Christ Jesus, and not temporal). True eternal salvation begins at the last trump when the corruptible puts on incorruption (and those might not be the best words).

We find, then receive:
Sin in us
Repentance
Believe in Christ Jesus for eternal life
Receive the Holy Spirit for power to witness
Baptized in fire to purify
All things commanded by Jesus

No more physical symbolism;
Kidneys were a symbol of removal of sin

The heart shows the symbolism of the crucified Christ (hidden man of the heart)

But now:
The Word in our hearts and minds (the quickening spirit Jesus became can enter us).

Once hidden in symbols with the reality hidden.

Now with the reality with a symbol / symbols applied.

You reckon rednecks aren't strange
eddif

 

[stovebolts]

I truly can't understand why anyone would think to disregard what Jesus said, and what His Apostles practiced, concerning Baptism.

• And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. Mark 16:15

• Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38

• But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized. Acts 8:12

• 17 And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized. Acts 9:17-18

• 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days. Acts 10:44-48

• 14 Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul. 15 And when she and her household were baptized, she begged us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.” So she persuaded us. Acts 16:14-15

• And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’ Acts 22:16

JLB

I agree. Through the years, I've heard some really smart people reason away baptism. I suppose that's what happens when the stories become text and doctrines battle for position

 

[stovebolts]

Hi everyone,

Spirit is rhema wind or breath

the reason why man has a eternal soul is because when God breathed into to Adams nostrils

he transferred part of him self/Spirit into Adams empty vessel and that is how and why Adam became a living soul

because God cannot die is the reason why the soul cannot die and is held accountable by the thoughts words and deeds committed by us in our vessels or bodies

The spirit enters a person at conception and is conformed to the image characteristics comprehension and personality of the vessel or person as they develop grow and mature here on earth

when the vessel passes away the soul leaves the vessel with the image characteristics comprehension and personality of the vessel or person

its like water poured into an ice cube tray and becoming the shape image and design of the tray

but after its frozen it leaves the vessel as an ice cube still made up of water

but transformed from its original composition to the vessels shape image and design

the vessel returns to the earth and the spirit now the soul of a person returns back to the spiritual realm either home with the father until Jesus returns or in hell awaiting judgement day

Just food for thought

Peace

Good post, and nice analogy

 

[stovebolts]

But we are not breathing bags of dirt. We are made up of the elements of the earth.

Uh-huh. True, the word is part of the language and, like all languages, words often have more than one meaning.
But, because we have some experience with language, we can discern the meaning of the word by the context.
So the "breath of life" (נִשְׁמַת חַיִּים) can be understood as both breath of God and spirit of God but probably not the wind of God.

God says we should. We can choose to do what He says and spend eternity with Him or do what the devil likes and spend eternity with him.
pick one

iakov the fool

Okey doky

 

[eddif]

Isaiah 55:12 KJV
For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap theirhands.

Really deep symbolism. The mountains may be rock, but are the hills dirt?

eddif

 

[eddif]

Psalms 150:1 KJV
Praise you the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.
2 Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.
3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.

Evidently everything God has made (creation) praises Him. Everything we do should praise Him. From dust to gold. Breath is the outpouring of praise even if there are no lungs as such. Symbolism - very strange at times.

Let us turn aside to the burning bush. Let us look at dirt.

eddif

 

[eddif]

Is not baptism a similar thing that should praise God? The old covenant had the sign of circumcision for Abraham. Is not baptism confessing before men what we believe?

eddif

 

[Nathan]

Is not baptism a similar thing that should praise God? The old covenant had the sign of circumcision for Abraham. Is not baptism confessing before men what we believe?

eddif

I don't think circumcision would be the same as baptism. One you would show, the other....not so much.

Also, one is to God, the other is to man.

I have always wondered how they knew if a man was actually circumcised. Like with Paul and Timothy. How did they prove that? Maybe I miss something in the OT where it is permissible to show nakedness for the sake of circumcision?

 

[eddif]

Ice can change to vapor
Water can become vapor
Hot water becomes steam

Water breathes. Water confesses the physical can become spirit.

eddif

 

[eddif]

I don't think circumcision would be the same as baptism. One you would show, the other....not so much.

Also, one is to God, the other is to man.

I have always wondered how they knew if a man was actually circumcised. Like with Paul and Timothy. How did they prove that? Maybe I miss something in the OT where it is permissible to show nakedness for the sake of circumcision?

I Kings 16:11 KJV
And it came to pass, when he began to reign, as soon as he sat on his throne, thathe slew all the house of Baasha: he left him not one that pisseth against a wall, neither of his kinsfolks, nor of his friends.

Hide and watch?

Romans 4:11 KJV
And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

The belief was the important thing. The sign was temporal.

When we get to baptism I feel a similar way. Baptized as a Baptist I really only understood repentance. In a Presbyterian church I understood Jesus as my savior. Sitting wet headed in front of a heater I received the Holy Spirit. Normal? I highly doubt it. I do understand background and ceremony this way.

eddif

 

[eddif]

I would be interested in someone taking the mixed multitude and the one general baptism in the sea, and looking at Ephesians 4 and the differing individuals and callings being addressed differently in the one baptism of the New Testament.

In reading this thread there seems to be a need to see the broadness in the one.

eddif