Bible Study Is Death A Sin? - Yes!

[Edward]

Once again, death is the result of sin that when we die in the physical body and return back to the dust of the ground and have rejected Christ then we are separated from the Father and have no second chance of reconciliation with Him. Adam at first Spiritually died (not physically) when he ate of the tree. This caused a Spiritual separation from God. Adam would have to reconcile his sin before his physical death in order to have eternal life with the Father just as all of us have to because the wages of sin is Spiritual separation of God/Spiritual death. After physical death there is no more chance of eternal life with the Father if one has died rejecting God.

I agree with this. Adam spiritually died the day he ate the fruit. The bible may not spell this out in black and white, but keep in mind that the bible is for us to learn to get on the road to life, not death. Saying the since God continued to interact with Adam & Eve after the fall means there could not have been a spiritual death is an assumption. We most certainly did lose close relationship with Him and there were perhaps (almost undoubtedly) some other aspects of being, that we lost at the same time. We do not know exactly what all we lost, because we are in a fallen state and have little to no knowledge about the realities and mechanics of being and living as a spiritual being. We do know that we are instructed to live for the spirit. We do know that we are instructed to pursue a personal relationship with Jesus.

If there is no such thing as spiritual death, then what in the world are all those instructions about, hmm? We are not human beings on a spiritual journey my friend. We are spiritual beings on a human journey.

On a side note, I've thought a lot about it and believe that the torment that is waiting in Hell is probably in all actuality, the total separation from God. We have never felt this, ever, because we were all born after the Holy Spirit comforter was given to the world. The reverse of this is likewise...our real reward is not necessarily just eternal life, but to be able to live in the presence of God for all eternity. Everyone and everyone who ever gives testimony of being visited by Jesus, or had the privilege of visiting the third heaven, all say the same thing. That the feeling of being in that presence was one of total love and acceptance which is the greatest feeling that they have ever felt.

Ah! A good link which helps to explain this better:
http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/what-does-the-bible-say-about-death-five-important-facts/

 

[th1b.taylor]

If death is a sin, then Jesus sinned for us!?!
Sorry, but no. Death is not a sin.

Great point.

 

[for_his_glory]

I agree with this. Adam spiritually died the day he ate the fruit. The bible may not spell this out in black and white, but keep in mind that the bible is for us to learn to get on the road to life, not death. Saying the since God continued to interact with Adam & Eve after the fall means there could not have been a spiritual death is an assumption. We most certainly did lose close relationship with Him and there were perhaps (almost undoubtedly) some other aspects of being, that we lost at the same time. We do not know exactly what all we lost, because we are in a fallen state and have little to no knowledge about the realities and mechanics of being and living as a spiritual being. We do know that we are instructed to live for the spirit. We do know that we are instructed to pursue a personal relationship with Jesus.

If there is no such thing as spiritual death, then what in the world are all those instructions about, hmm? We are not human beings on a spiritual journey my friend. We are spiritual beings on a human journey.

On a side note, I've thought a lot about it and believe that the torment that is waiting in Hell is probably in all actuality, the total separation from God. We have never felt this, ever, because we were all born after the Holy Spirit comforter was given to the world. The reverse of this is likewise...our real reward is not necessarily just eternal life, but to be able to live in the presence of God for all eternity. Everyone and everyone who ever gives testimony of being visited by Jesus, or had the privilege of visiting the third heaven, all say the same thing. That the feeling of being in that presence was one of total love and acceptance which is the greatest feeling that they have ever felt.

Ah! A good link which helps to explain this better:
http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/what-does-the-bible-say-about-death-five-important-facts/

It's hard for me to think that anyone who is Spiritually born again can not grasp the concept between physical death and Spiritual death. That is a good website.

 

[Chopper]

Did ug disappear again? We need to call him Casper,

 

[for_his_glory]

Did ug disappear again? We need to call him Casper,

why does he disappear , maybe does not like confrontation or a good discussion...........it's a mystery I tell ya............a mystery

 

[TimothyW]

I think the pertinent question here is God said the day you eat of the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil you WILL die,...what died?

...was God lying , did God lie?

No, God didn't lie. Hebrew experts tell me that Mut ta Muth is translated "dying, you will die". I'm no Hebrew expert, but I know that Genesis wasn't originally written in English.

God didn't lie, He said that Adam would die if he ate the fruit and Adam did die. Genesis 5:5 says when Adam died. FHG was never able to answer my question "Where does the Bible say that Adam died before Adam died?". The truth is that the Bible does not say that Adam died spiritually before Adam died physically.

 

[TimothyW]

God is Spirit and we worship Him in Spirit and truth. When we break that fellowship as Adam did then it becomes a type of death in that we no longer have that Spiritual relationship with God which leaves us spiritually dead inside. The Biblical definition of spiritual death is the absence of having spiritual life, which is only available in the Lord Jesus Christ. When Adam broke that fellowship he had with God by being disobedient to Gods command of not to eat from the tree Adam broke that Spiritual relationship with God and became Spiritually dead within his inner man.There are many scriptures that speak of the inner man being dead to God, but you have to study what Spiritual death is within these scriptures to understand that there is a Spiritual death and a physical death.


Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

1John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

You didn't answer my question.
Where exactly does the Bible says that Adam died before Adam died?

 

[Karl]

No, God didn't lie. Hebrew experts tell me that Mut ta Muth is translated "dying, you will die". I'm no Hebrew expert, but I know that Genesis wasn't originally written in English.[/quoto]

Timothy, let's take a look at what you said, "dying, you will die," if what you say is true, then Adam was already dying before he ate from the tree, how could that be? Paul tells us that sin entered into the world by one man (Adam) and death followed sin Rom 5:12
So before Adam sinned how could he be already dying? Can you substantiate what you are saying with Scripture?

Here is Gen 2:17

But of the tree H4480 H6086 of the knowledge H1847 of good H2896 and evil, H7451 thou shalt not H3808 eat H398 of H4480 it: for H3588 in the day H3117 that thou eatest H398 thereof H4480 thou shalt surely die. H4191 H4191

It says you will die die, a reference to dying once physically and dying the second time spiritually, which is the destiny for every human that doesn't receive Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior and the translators of our English Bible used the word surely to give us the sense and the meaning of the Divine affirmation of this fact. Also notice that God said this to Adam before He announced the Gospel in Gen 3:15, ...the first place in the Word Grace is introduced to us (Genesis is the Book of beginnings and this is the beginning of Grace).

Notice it also says the day you eat , that doesn't mean a week later, or a month later, or a 930 years later, it means the very same day Adam ate of the fruit.

And you haven't answered my question, you say God didn't lie, so what died the day Adam ate of the fruit?

Blessings

 

[for_his_glory]

TimothyW,

I have given you several scriptures that explain that of Genesis 2:17 that Adam did not physically die that day, but Spiritually died as he caused sin to enter into himself causing the fellowship he had with God to be broken and for that God expelled Adam from the garden where he could have lived in paradise forever. Adam was created not of a natural birth as we are, but that of God breathing His very Spirit into Adam which gave Adam that Spiritual relationship with God until Adam broke that Spiritual relationship in disobedience as now Adam was Spiritually dead as the result of his sin against God for flesh can never be obedient to the Spirit of God. This is why we have to be Spiritually born again, not from the womb, but by the very Spirit of God in whom by His grace we are once again joined to His fellowship. I know you are looking for the exact words Spiritual death and that is found in Romans 8:5,6 which explains this very clearly. Carnal minded is death (Spiritual death) spiritually minded is (Spiritual life).

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Let me ask you a question, have you been Spiritually born again?

 

[Malachi]

How can death be a sin, when the Bible tells us that death is the ultimate consequence of sin?
"But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren" (James 1:14-16 KJB).

God the Holy Spirit tells us through James that there is a very specific progression towards death -- temptation, lust, sin and finally death. Death is not only the separation of the body from the soul and spirit, but it is also ultimately the eternal separation of the sinner from God. That is why we have the Gospel.

 

[TimothyW]

TimothyW,

I have given you several scriptures that explain that of Genesis 2:17 that Adam did not physically die that day, but Spiritually died as he caused sin to enter into himself causing the fellowship he had with God to be broken and for that God expelled Adam from the garden where he could have lived in paradise forever. Adam was created not of a natural birth as we are, but that of God breathing His very Spirit into Adam which gave Adam that Spiritual relationship with God until Adam broke that Spiritual relationship in disobedience as now Adam was Spiritually dead as the result of his sin against God for flesh can never be obedient to the Spirit of God. This is why we have to be Spiritually born again, not from the womb, but by the very Spirit of God in whom by His grace we are once again joined to His fellowship. I know you are looking for the exact words Spiritual death and that is found in Romans 8:5,6 which explains this very clearly. Carnal minded is death (Spiritual death) spiritually minded is (Spiritual life).

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Let me ask you a question, have you been Spiritually born again?

Nothing that you said even comes close to saying that Adam died the day he ate the fruit.

You asked me if I have been spiritually born again. I trust in Jesus Christ for salvation, I put all of my faith in Him as my Lord, my God and my Savior. I follow Jesus Christ. Have I been "spiritually born again"? As a Christian, the Spirit of God dwells in me, it is no longer I who live but Christ who dwells in me. I have experienced this, which I can only explain as "a new life", being metaphorically born again.

I know that you want death to mean "alive but really dead" so that you can have your religion just the way you want it. But the fact is that the Bible doesn't say what you are saying. Soften your heart and accept what the Holy Spirit of God says to you through His Word, the Bible. There is only eternal life in Christ, and nowhere else. There is no eternal life in hell being tormented alive forever. There is only death in "hell", no life of any kind.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Nothing that you said even comes close to saying that Adam died the day he ate the fruit.

You asked me if I have been spiritually born again. I trust in Jesus Christ for salvation, I put all of my faith in Him as my Lord, my God and my Savior. I follow Jesus Christ. Have I been "spiritually born again"? As a Christian, the Spirit of God dwells in me, it is no longer I who live but Christ who dwells in me. I have experienced this, which I can only explain as "a new life", being metaphorically born again.

I know that you want death to mean "alive but really dead" so that you can have your religion just the way you want it. But the fact is that the Bible doesn't say what you are saying. Soften your heart and accept what the Holy Spirit of God says to you through His Word, the Bible. There is only eternal life in Christ, and nowhere else. There is no eternal life in hell being tormented alive forever. There is only death in "hell", no life of any kind.

Brother,
Back in The creation story we see that even the Devil knew what Adam had been assured of when he tweaked it and deceived Eve and when Adam bit into that fruit, he died, not as man counts death but he, instead, died the Spiritual Death that, today, everyone of us must overcome to enter into Heaven. Later, at over 900 years of age, he died the death that we know as the First Death, death of the body.

 

[for_his_glory]

Nothing that you said even comes close to saying that Adam died the day he ate the fruit.

You asked me if I have been spiritually born again. I trust in Jesus Christ for salvation, I put all of my faith in Him as my Lord, my God and my Savior. I follow Jesus Christ. Have I been "spiritually born again"? As a Christian, the Spirit of God dwells in me, it is no longer I who live but Christ who dwells in me. I have experienced this, which I can only explain as "a new life", being metaphorically born again.

I know that you want death to mean "alive but really dead" so that you can have your religion just the way you want it. But the fact is that the Bible doesn't say what you are saying. Soften your heart and accept what the Holy Spirit of God says to you through His Word, the Bible. There is only eternal life in Christ, and nowhere else. There is no eternal life in hell being tormented alive forever. There is only death in "hell", no life of any kind.

I never said Adam physically died that day and have said that many times throughout my posts here. I'm sorry you can not see the difference between physical death and spiritual death. You said that you were metaphorically born again, that is the same thing I have been trying to get you to see. Physical death (as reality) is the end of life in the physical body, spiritual death (metaphorically) is the separation from your spirit and that Spirit of God that dwells in us when our inner man is Spiritually born again. It has nothing to do with religion or softening my heart as I am not a religious person, but am a blood bought Spiritually renewed child of the most high God by that of John 3:3-6 and Romans 10:9,10. Genesis 2:16, 17 God told Adam he would surely die if he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Did Adam physically die that day, no, he Spiritually died that day as he broke the Spiritual relationship he had with God causing metaphorically a Spirit death. We have all been Spiritually dead until made Spiritually alive again when we accepted Jesus as our Lord and Savior and was Spiritually renewed by the Holy Spirit that now dwells in us making us Spiritually alive unto Christ Jesus.

 

[TimothyW]

Brother,
Back in The creation story we see that even the Devil knew what Adam had been assured of when he tweaked it and deceived Eve and when Adam bit into that fruit, he died, not as man counts death but he, instead, died the Spiritual Death that, today, everyone of us must overcome to enter into Heaven. Later, at over 900 years of age, he died the death that we know as the First Death, death of the body.

I'm sorry, but the Bible says when Adam died. Read Genesis 5:5. The Bible does not say that Adam died in any way when he bit into the fruit. Fact.

 

[TimothyW]

I never said Adam physically died that day and have said that many times throughout my posts here. I'm sorry you can not see the difference between physical death and spiritual death. You said that you were metaphorically born again, that is the same thing I have been trying to get you to see. Physical death (as reality) is the end of life in the physical body, spiritual death (metaphorically) is the separation from your spirit and that Spirit of God that dwells in us when our inner man is Spiritually born again. It has nothing to do with religion or softening my heart as I am not a religious person, but am a blood bought Spiritually renewed child of the most high God by that of John 3:3-6 and Romans 10:9,10. Genesis 2:16, 17 God told Adam he would surely die if he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Did Adam physically die that day, no, he Spiritually died that day as he broke the Spiritual relationship he had with God causing metaphorically a Spirit death. We have all been Spiritually dead until made Spiritually alive again when we accepted Jesus as our Lord and Savior and was Spiritually renewed by the Holy Spirit that now dwells in us making us Spiritually alive unto Christ Jesus.

No. The Bible does not say that Adam "spiritually died" the day that he ate the fruit. Read the account. Your claim is in error. The reason I suggested that you soften your heart is so that you can accept what the Bible says instead of your presupposition.

 

[jasonc]

• for we have passed from death unto life.. for we were dead in our trespasses and sins. sound like spiritually dead until we repent.

 

[TimothyW]

• for we have passed from death unto life.. for we were dead in our trespasses and sins. sound like spiritually dead until we repent.

Sounds to me like we no longer are headed to death, we are headed to eternal life. (If we have repented of our sins and turned to Christ for eternal life)

 

[jasonc]

Sounds to me like we no longer are headed to death, we are headed to eternal life. (If we have repented of our sins and turned to Christ for eternal life)

the bible translate that as being dead. do you believe that YOU have eternal life now or till you die then are raised? if now then justify why god has said that and how he also doesn't say with the same tense that we are dead at present until we are forgiven.

 

[Ricko]

Before they ate the fruit they were in fellowship with God. After they ate, their eyes were opened. They knew they had sinned. They realized they were naked and hid from God. The were no longer in fellowship and now spiritually separated from God. Did they turn to God to confess and repent? Not until we confess and repent can we be in fellowship with God.

 

[jasonc]

yes the Hebrew does say and dying you shall die. that is what I was about to going into. he died the day of the eating the fruit and went down from there. ever know a person from your youth that you sinned with? and only you repented and did you notice that you grew more like jesus and they waxed worse?