Is futurism dying

[Rev33]

I'll save you the effort.

Nicene Creed:

We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried, and the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end.
And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

 

[Rev33]

Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

The prince who is to come, is the "he" who confirms a 7 year covenant.

Not Exactly. The 7 year time frame is placed on the CONFIRMATION, not the Covenant. The Covenant is EVERLASTING. but yes, the Prince who is to come , a reference to "Messiah the Prince", is the "he".

"He" is a reference to the last person mentioned.

Yes

The last person mentioned is the prince who is to come.

Yes

Jesus did not confirm a 7 year covenant.

Correct again.

Jesus confirmed an everlasting covenant.

Yes He did, for "one Seven" exactly as Daniel prophesied.

 

[reba]

I'll save you the effort.

Nicene Creed:

We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried, and the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end.
And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Yup a vague answer to a simple question

@Rev33 do you believe Jesus is returning for His Church/bride/people ?

 

[Rev33]

I believe as the Creed States:
"And He shall come again in glory to Judge the living and the Dead"

As to the timing and nature of that event, I have no idea, but I do believe it is yet future to us.... so your whole "coming for his bride church people" thing isn't as simple a question as you would have me believe... You are asking if I share the same conclusions you do about the nature of the event, not if I believe There will be a Future to us coming.

There WILL be a future to us coming of Christ to judge the living and the dead.
I have no idea about the timing or nature of that event however.
Simple enough?

Now your turn...
Do you believe The Church IS Christ's Body on earth today?

 

[Rev33]

So, if the Kingdom of God is here and now, and it is, but if that is all the Kingdom of God we are getting, then we are far below ability, far below right now than where we should be.

So you say the Kingdom of God is here now but in some sort of diminished capacity?
IF that is so, then tell us what person, spirit or principality in existence now has power over the present, yet diminished Kingdom of God on earth today?

We should be doing our part, and great things will get done, but the World will remain a mess until the Lord Jesus comes, and sets it right.

Why rearrange the chairs on the Titanic?

If you believe all our efforts as the Body of Christ to do great things will have no positive effect on the world, why bother?

 

[Deborah13]

So, if the Kingdom of God is here and now, and it is, but if that is all the Kingdom of God we are getting, then we are far below ability, far below right now than where we should be. We should be doing our part, and great things will get done, but the World will remain a mess until the Lord Jesus comes, and sets it right.

So I agree with your statement, that I quoted. I believe that the Lord is coming again and He will take care of the mess. I do not believe in a rapture or the Great Tribulation as futurists do.
I do not believe that we are going to be living on this earth (or anywhere) with our Lord Jesus, for a 1,000 yrs. participating in animal blood sacrifices. That time ended when Jesus died on the cross.

Not true.......... You can't remove the 6th seal and claim this. It's not possible, it's one or the other.

Ok, you'll have to explain that to me. You say, if I believe the sixth seal was opened I can't believe in the future return of the Lord.

Revelation 6 NIV
11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters,[a] were killed just as they had been.
12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.

 

[Brother Mike]

Why rearrange the chairs on the Titanic?

If you believe all our efforts as the Body of Christ to do great things will have no positive effect on the world, why bother?

I am wondering that even though you highlight my quote if your actually reading what you highlighted. This is twice now you have messed up in what I have said. Try to stay more focused, and pay attention.

Mike.

 

[Brother Mike]

Ok, you'll have to explain that to me. You say, if I believe the sixth seal was opened I can't believe in the future return of the Lord.

See, that is where it's all connected. The day of the Lord. The wording is spot on and very consistent here.

Act_2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

It's mentioned in 29 verses, all have the same effect. We are not talking about a couple obscure verses here.

In connection to the Day of the Lord, the 6th and 7th seal is released. That along with the 7th trumpet sound right before. We have 3 events here.

The stars get wiped from the heavens, the sun goes out, and the moon turns blood red. No stars is a pretty big event I would say along with the sun going out.
After the 1/2 hour of complete silence on the Earth men hide and try to hide. Mens hearts fail them for the signs in the heavens, the whole earth shakes.

Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The 6th seal is in connection to Jesus coming. With 29 verses to look at and compare, this would be hard to miss.

For a 6th seal and 7th trumpet that would mean there had to be a 1-5 seal and trumpet which bring just total destruction to the earth. We have not even gotten to the vials yet.

I do not believe that we are going to be living on this earth (or anywhere) with our Lord Jesus, for a 1,000 yrs. participating in animal blood sacrifices. That time ended when Jesus died on the cross.

I am not sure where you got this.........or who says that.

 

[reba]

You are asking if I share the same conclusions you do about the nature of the event, not if I believe There will be a Future to us coming.

Do you know my conclusions about that nature of the event?

 

[reba]

Do you believe The Church IS Christ's Body on earth today?

A straight question that is not always simple.. Yes

 

[JLB]

Yes He did, for "one Seven" exactly as Daniel prophesied.

This is a false statement.

The Lord has not ever made a seven year covenant.

 

[JLB]

Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

@ Deb

I do not believe that we are going to be living on this earth (or anywhere) with our Lord Jesus, for a 1,000 yrs. participating in animal blood sacrifices.

Animal blood sacrifices in the 1000 year reign ?

That's a new one.

I'm afraid to ask where that scripture is.


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

Animal blood sacrifices in the 1000 year reign ?

That's a new one.

I'm afraid to ask where that scripture is.

I don't think Deb pulled that out of her pocket, she must have heard it somewhere. I would be hard pressed to find that in the Word though. I think the thought of God's anointed 144,000 Jews to witness at the end, but they are witnesses and nothing about taking up the Old Jewish practices. Just a guess where she might have gotten that.

Animal blood sacrifices in the 1000 year reign ?

That's a new one.

I'm afraid to ask where that scripture is.

I count two covenants, the one God made with Abraham........and the improved version of that Covenant.

Mike.

 

[Rev33]

Do you believe The Church IS Christ's Body on earth today?

A straight question that is not always simple.. Yes

OK, is Christ present in that Body currently or absent from it?

 

[Rev33]

Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

@ Deb

I do not believe that we are going to be living on this earth (or anywhere) with our Lord Jesus, for a 1,000 yrs. participating in animal blood sacrifices.

Animal blood sacrifices in the 1000 year reign ?

That's a new one.

I'm afraid to ask where that scripture is.


JLB

Ezekiel 40-44

Haven't found a hyper futurist yet that doesn't claim Ez 40-44 is a depiction of the "Millennial Temple".... Perhaps you'll be the first JLB? Brother Mike?

 

[reba]

[MENTION=94590]Rev33[/MENTION]It took a while but i see my question has been answered.... this site , which i agree with, views full preterism as a heresy .... My personal ( not moderator) opinion is anything you post from now on will have no credibility. Things stink when one does not have the willingness to be straight up about what they believe...

 

[Rev33]

Yes He did, for "one Seven" exactly as Daniel prophesied.

This is a false statement.

The Lord has not ever made a seven year covenant.

Did you even read what I posted?

I have NEVER claimed anything of the sort.

The 7 years is the span of THE CONFIRMATION - NOT OF THE COVENANT ITSELF...The Covenant IS everlasting.

Christ did indeed CONFIRM the EVERLASTING Covenant to the Jews for one seven, exactly as Daniel prophesied.
3.5 years By His Earthly Ministry, then after the cross another 3.5 years of His Gospel going to the Jews Exclusively.

He was cut off in the midst (cross) and His Perfect sacrifice caused all other sacrifices of the Mosaic Law to become null and void.

 

[Rev33]

@Rev33 It took a while but i see my question has been answered.... this site , which i agree with, views full preterism as a heresy .... My personal ( not moderator) opinion is anything you post from now on will have no credibility. Things stink when one does not have the willingness to be straight up about what they believe...

Thats fine, but I'm no full preterist.

And have alwasy been straight up. Just because you want me to do the research for you doesn't mean I'm not being straight.

I believe in a future to us coming of Christ.
Said that from the get go from your initial question of same.

 

[reba]

Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

@ Deb

I do not believe that we are going to be living on this earth (or anywhere) with our Lord Jesus, for a 1,000 yrs. participating in animal blood sacrifices.

Animal blood sacrifices in the 1000 year reign ?

That's a new one.

I'm afraid to ask where that scripture is.


JLB

Scofield one of the fathers of dispensationalism said this.... "

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Doubtless these offerings will be memorial, looking back to the cross, as the offerings under the old covenant were anticipatory, looking forward to the cross. In neither case have animal sacrifices power to put away sin." [/FONT]

 

[reba]

@Rev33 It took a while but i see my question has been answered.... this site , which i agree with, views full preterism as a heresy .... My personal ( not moderator) opinion is anything you post from now on will have no credibility. Things stink when one does not have the willingness to be straight up about what they believe...

Thats fine, but I'm no full preterist.

And have alwasy been straight up. Just because you want me to do the research for you doesn't mean I'm not being straight.

I believe in a future to us coming of Christ.
Said that from the get go from your initial question of same.

Thank you for a direct reply..