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Is futurism dying

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Those are your words JLB not mine . I read an edge to you words i hope i am mistaken.

I will not argue this with you we just donot see/read things the same way... For me it is not about making a point or being right.. it is simply offering out what i believe.. I hope so with you also.
Like you offer scripture to your view and just dont get why others dont see it your way so did do i.
 

JLB

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13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. 6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:4-8


... knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.


And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

When people are taught that this event is past, it overthrows their faith ...

We are called to comfort one another with the truth of forever being with the Lord when we die, not overthrowing there faith, saying the resurrection is past.

17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:17-18

To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

A wonderful thing to look forward to...


JLB
 
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Have the Jews finished transgressing the Covenant?

Are the Jews still sinning?

Has iniquity of the Jews be reconciled and brought to a completion?
You bring up some very interesting points...

Lets take a look at your implications and what they mean for the Jews:

"And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the Great City which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified" (Rev. 11:8).

This verse designates Jerusalem as "Sodom and Egypt" because it was in Jerusalem that the Lord Jesus was crucified. If we are to say this verse refers to a time in our future and is not yet fulfilled, then we must also say that Jerusalem remains the spiritual "Sodom and Egypt" to this very day because of its Messianic blood-guilt, and that it must remain so indicted until the Judgment of Rev. 11:13-19 is fulfilled sometime in our future. This conclusion is inescapable if the passage has yet to be fulfilled.

And if Rev. 11:13-19 is yet unfulfilled, this logically implies that Paul's indictment against Jews must remain intact to this very day, specifically, that "the Jews [who "killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets"] ...are ...hostile to all men. ...They always fill up the measure of their sins" (I Thess. 2:14-16).

In the consistent futurist doctrine, all people who call themselves Jews today are left wide open to being automatically viewed with special suspicion by Christians. Futurism logically produces a very dangerous ambiguity and ambivalence toward modern-day "Jews" in that, on the one hand, they are in some sense "God's chosen people," and on the other hand they must remain a blood-guilty race of enemies who are opposed to all men, and whose Metropolis is "Egypt" and "Sodom" until Revelation 11 is fulfilled.

In the preterist doctrine, in contrast, Jerusalem was "given to the nations" by God in the late 60's, A.D., and the Great City was then tread under foot for 42 months (Rev. 11:2). During that Great Tribulation which culminated in the destruction of the City and the Sanctuary in A. D. 70, the wrath of God against the Jews had come to the utmost (I Thess. 2:16; Heb. 10:26-31) and the Jews had paid the price for their Messianic blood-guilt to the last cent (Lk. 12:54-59). When the fleshly covenant-nation was disinherited as God's covenant people in 70, God's wrath against her was finished. After that day, the Jews became --covenantally speaking-- simply one of the many ethnic classes in the family of man (Eph. 3:15). And there is not one class (or "race") of man today that is in any sense accepted or rejected by God because of DNA, but all are freely accepted in Christ.

How many lives would have been saved if this preterist view of Israel in Bible prophecy had been taught instead of consistent futurism?

Probably millions.


to bring in everlasting righteousness
Is there everlasting righteousness among the Jews in the city of Jerusalem?
Adding to the text are you?
Jesus Himself said he fulfills ALL righteousness. Do you doubt His claim?

Are people living forever yet?
Jesus said: "He who lives and believes in me shall never die"

Do you doubt His claim here too?





The Decree of Cyrus - about 536 BC
17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations. Matthew 1:17

The Math:

14 generations @ 40 years per generation = 560 years
Did I read that right? are you asserting that a Biblical Generation is 40 years?

Bravo!


To arrive at the "going forth of the command" we deduct the time of captivity.

560 - 70 = 490 years from the going forth of the command to the birth of Christ = 490 years. 70 weeks!


No made up generic dates, such as some say 33BC...it's close enough I reckon.

The problem you have is Messiah the Prince refers to a specific event, which is not the birth of Christ.
I have no such problem. As I said, The event "Messiah the Prince" is Jesus' Baptism, not Birth. Never said His Birth... not sure where you got that from but it wasn't me.

The second problem with this is, the prophecy states the it is 69 weeks to the event called "Messiah the Prince".


Shall I continue?


JLB
Yes, keep digging, by all means.
 
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The natural city of Jerusalem that was built by man, and the natural temple that was built by man, was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD, right here on earth.
I have been looking at this and most claim this was Herod's Temple that Jesus stood by saying not one stone will be left on another. Well, there are still parts of walls with stones on top of each other, and My thinking is that what happened in 70ad is just guesswork at best with tons of make believe and speculation. If Jesus said no stone left on top the other, then it can't be Herod's temple and if not Herod's temple then what they think was the temple in 70ad is MYTH BUSTED!!!

We need to stick with scriptures not faulty History.

Mike.

The Stones that make up the "wailing Wall" today were NOT part of the Herodian Temple.
Archeologists have found Roman coins minted AFTER Herod's death underneath the foundation stones of the Wall..

The Western Wall that stands today was NOT part of the structure that Jesus said "not one stone will be left upon another", rather it was built up in the centuries AFTER Israels Great tribulation of 66-70 AD. AFTER the Temple Christ Pointed to and Said "not one stone..." was taken apart stone by stone, on time, in that "Generation" as promised.

Myth Busted indeed!
 
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Brother Mike

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The Western Wall that stands today was NOT part of the structure that Jesus said "not one stone will be left upon another", rather it was built up in the centuries AFTER Israels Great tribulation of 66-70 AD. AFTER the Temple Christ Pointed to and Said "not one stone..." was taken apart stone by stone, on time, in that "Generation" as promised.
Well, all I had was video's as I don't have scripture showing this temple getting smashed. Groups have put together "Proof" that this was the temple Jesus talked about, but could not be as the one Jesus talked about did not have any stones on each other or even part standing.

I also don't have evidence that any temple was taken apart stone by stone around 70ad because where is that to be found? I am reading a thing that the Arab's did it not the Romans, so who knows. I need scriptures!!!! then I know.

Mike.
 

JLB

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Jesus said: "He who lives and believes in me shall never die" Do you doubt His claim here too?
6 Moreover He said, "I am the God of your father--the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:6

Was Abraham's body dead or alive when the Lord spoke this to Moses?


34 And Jesus answered and said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:34-36


Jesus said that those who attain the resurrection of the dead, do not die anymore.

Everlasting righteousness will be attained, when Jesus returns and removes all the wicked and then the righteous, who are everlasting ones with bodies that will never die, will shine like the sun.

Just exactly as Jesus taught us -


41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear! Matthew 13:41-43

If people still have bodies that will die, then Everlasting Righteousness is not yet been attained.

24 "Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, Daniel 9:24

The prophecy in Daniel 9 pertains to Daniel's people; The Jews.

And Daniel's holy city; Jerusalem.


JLB
 

JLB

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I have no such problem. As I said, The event "Messiah the Prince" is Jesus' Baptism, not Birth. Never said His Birth... not sure where you got that from but it wasn't me.
Yes, you have a problem in your math -

560 - 70 = 490 years from the going forth of the command to the birth of Christ = 490 years. 70 weeks!

That is without any gaps in the first 69 weeks, as anyone can see doesn't work.

The prophecy calls for 69 weeks, from the going forth of the command to Messiah the Prince.

By your theory, from the going forth of the command to the "baptism" of Christ is -

560 - 70 = 490 years from the going forth of the command to the birth of Christ = 490 years. 70 weeks. plus another 30 years to His baptism.

By your theory you have 520 years from the going forth of the command to the baptism of Christ.
The prophecy call for 69 weeks from the going forth ot the command to Messiah the prince.

That equals 483 years, not 520 years.

Now you are left with one of two options.

#1 - Try to discredit the fact that a generation is 40 years.

or

#2 - Understand that there is a gap in the first 69 weeks, as the prophetic word is structured, as 7 weeks and 62 weeks for this very reason.

17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations. Matthew 1:17

A Generation is 40 years.

Babylonian Captivity to Christ = 14 generations = 560 years

Time of Captivity = 70 years

560 -70 = 490 years

Gap between 7 weeks and 62 weeks = 40 years = 1 Generation

Ezra 4:23-24

23 Now when the copy of King Artaxerxes' letter was read before Rehum, Shimshai the scribe, and their companions, they went up in haste to Jerusalem against the Jews, and by force of arms made them cease. 24 Thus the work of the house of God which is at Jerusalem ceased, and it was discontinued until the second year of the reign of Darius king of Persia.

Very important to the prophetic time line!


33 = Birth to “Palm Sundayâ€

490 - 40 = 450 years + 33 years “Birth†to Messiah the Prince 483 years = 69 weeks

[Messiah the Prince; Hosanna to the son of David]


JLB

 
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[MENTION=90220]JLB[/MENTION] 's assertion that a generation is always 40yrs is easily disproven from scripture. Of those two other 14 generation periods, from Abraham to David, and from David to the Babylonian captivity, neither are 560yrs. Clearly the assertion that a generation must be 40yrs is, in fact, wrong.
 
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Yes, you have a problem in your math - 560 - 70 = 490 years from the going forth of the command to the birth of Christ = 490 years. 70 weeks!

1) Where does the prophesy say "Birth of Christ"?

2) What "command" do you say the prophesy refers to?

The Math I employ is correct, as I demonstrated earlier but will gladly do so again for the benefit of our readers.

Daniel prophesied in verse 25 that from the commandment to restore and rebuild Israel to the coming of the Messiah is 483 years. (69 Weeks) The question comes to "which decree is it?"

the MATH allows for only ONE decree to fit, and it is Decree of Artaxerxes - 458 BC (not ABOUT 458 BC, but Actually 458 BC)
* Ezra 7:12 - 26 Artaxerxes makes the decree.
* The math: 483-458 = 25, but there was no 0 AD nor 0 BC, so that makes 26 AD. (something you fail to account for in your math)
* What happened in 26 AD?
Mark 1:9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
Mark 1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
Messiah the Prince came and the Spirit, like a dove, descended upon Him. So began the ministry of Jesus Christ.
What is 483 + 7? 490 years. Simple.

The 69th Week Ended and the 70th week beganat the Baptism of Christ.
Jesus' first coming and ministry on this earth, through to His death, burial and resurrection and subsequent 3.5 year ministry to the Jews exclusively by the apostles, fulfilled the 70th week of Daniel completely.
 
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When people are taught that this event is past, it overthrows their faith ...

Overthrows their faith in what; The man-endorsed dogmas presented to them by their particular religion or their faith in God? Sometimes it's a good thing to lose faith when it is revealed that that which one had placed their faith in was not worthy of such trust.

When people go to 2 Thess and use it as if it was written to us as opposed to people living 1970 years ago, I'm all but floored. Paul was telling them that the return of Jesus that they were looking forward to and were being told to prepare for had not yet occurred. That doesn't mean it hasn't occurred since that time. PAUL WASN'T TALKING TO YOU. HE WAS TALKING TO THEM! We must keep that is mind as we study what was written.

------
The Bible gives indications that there are to be multiple resurrections and that depending on which resurrection one is party to, there are different fates in the age to come. Some will rule with Christ while others will be raised to age lasting life without the ruling authority offered to an elect few. Still others are said to be raised to face judgment, damnation, and destruction.
One can make a strong case that only the saints would be party to the 1st resurrection while everyone else, both the righteous and the unrighteous would be raised at another time to be either gifted with life (the righteous) or to face judgment (the unrighteous).

The problem with accepting this as a possible teaching is that it puts us living now in the position of having to deal with the idea that we will have a lesser reward than the saints that were spoken of as being persecuted martyrs. Jesus sent messengers to invite everyone to His wedding feast, but never says that the invited guests are to be as close to Him or as priveledged as His bride who not only gets the reward of life, but also gets to rule.
 

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[MENTION=90220]JLB[/MENTION] 's assertion that a generation is always 40yrs is easily disproven from scripture. Of those two other 14 generation periods, from Abraham to David, and from David to the Babylonian captivity, neither are 560yrs. Clearly the assertion that a generation must be 40yrs is, in fact, wrong.
I see you chose option 1, which is expected.

Please "disprove" that a generation is not 40 years as stated in Matthew 1:17.

17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations. Matthew 1:17


JLB
 

JLB

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When people are taught that this event is past, it overthrows their faith ...

Overthrows their faith in what; The man-endorsed dogmas presented to them by their particular religion or their faith in God? Sometimes it's a good thing to lose faith when it is revealed that that which one had placed their faith in was not worthy of such trust.

When people go to 2 Thess and use it as if it was written to us as opposed to people living 1970 years ago, I'm all but floored. Paul was telling them that the return of Jesus that they were looking forward to and were being told to prepare for had not yet occurred. That doesn't mean it hasn't occurred since that time. PAUL WASN'T TALKING TO YOU. HE WAS TALKING TO THEM! We must keep that is mind as we study what was written.

------
The Bible gives indications that there are to be multiple resurrections and that depending on which resurrection one is party to, there are different fates in the age to come. Some will rule with Christ while others will be raised to age lasting life without the ruling authority offered to an elect few. Still others are said to be raised to face judgment, damnation, and destruction.
One can make a strong case that only the saints would be party to the 1st resurrection while everyone else, both the righteous and the unrighteous would be raised at another time to be either gifted with life (the righteous) or to face judgment (the unrighteous).

The problem with accepting this as a possible teaching is that it puts us living now in the position of having to deal with the idea that we will have a lesser reward than the saints that were spoken of as being persecuted martyrs. Jesus sent messengers to invite everyone to His wedding feast, but never says that the invited guests are to be as close to Him or as priveledged as His bride who not only gets the reward of life, but also gets to rule.
17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:17-18

Saying the resurrection is past, overthrows the faith of some.

Just exactly as Paul teaches us.


JLB
 

JLB

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Daniel prophesied in verse 25 that from the commandment to restore and rebuild Israel to the coming of the Messiah is 483 years. (69 Weeks) The question comes to "which decree is it?"
The commandment to rebuild Israel? Maybe you mean Jerusalem?

25 "Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;

It was Cyrus who was called by God to restore Jerusalem, which included the Temple,

as it is written -

28 Who says of Cyrus, 'He is My shepherd, And he shall perform all My pleasure, Saying to Jerusalem, "You shall be built," And to the temple, "Your foundation shall be laid." Isaiah 44:28

and again -

1 Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and also put it in writing, saying, 2 Thus says Cyrus king of Persia: All the kingdoms of the earth the Lord God of heaven has given me. And He has commanded me to build Him a house at Jerusalem which is in Judah. Ezra 1:1-2

The same word from Jeremiah that Daniel understood -

1 In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the lineage of the Medes, who was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans-- 2 in the first year of his reign I, Daniel, understood by the books the number of the years specified by the word of the Lord through Jeremiah the prophet, that He would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem. Daniel 9:1-2


Cyrus gave the decree to restore and build Jerusalem.


the MATH allows for only ONE decree to fit, and it is Decree of Artaxerxes - 458 BC (not ABOUT 458 BC, but Actually 458 BC) * Ezra 7:12 - 26 Artaxerxes makes the decree.

Artexerxes made the work stop, until a letter from Cyrus was found in the archives.

23 Now when the copy of King Artaxerxes' letter was read before Rehum, Shimshai the scribe, and their companions, they went up in haste to Jerusalem against the Jews, and by force of arms made them cease. 24 Thus the work of the house of God which is at Jerusalem ceased, and it was discontinued until the second year of the reign of Darius king of Persia.

It was Darius who gave the command for the work to resume -

1 Then King Darius issued a decree, and a search was made in the archives, where the treasures were stored in Babylon. Ezra 6:1


11 Also I issue a decree that whoever alters this edict, let a timber be pulled from his house and erected, and let him be hanged on it; and let his house be made a refuse heap because of this. 12 And may the God who causes His name to dwell there destroy any king or people who put their hand to alter it, or to destroy this house of God which is in Jerusalem. I Darius issue a decree; let it be done diligently. 13 Then Tattenai, governor of the region beyond the River, Shethar-Boznai, and their companions diligently did according to what King Darius had sent. Ezra 6:11-13


According to The Word of the lord, Cyrus King of Persia gave the command to restore Jerusalem and the temple.

Artexerxes made it stop, which cause a gap it the time line.

Darius caused the work that Cyrus decreed to begin, to resume.

Read it for yourself from the scriptures.


JLB
 
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17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:17-18 Saying the resurrection is past, overthrows the faith of some. Just exactly as Paul teaches us. JLB

There you go JLB. You've got to do more than quote mine to make a case. You've done nothing (as I indicated in my previous post) to show why the above scripture would be applicable to a modern context.
 

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17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:17-18 Saying the resurrection is past, overthrows the faith of some. Just exactly as Paul teaches us. JLB

There you go JLB. You've got to do more than quote mine to make a case. You've done nothing (as I indicated in my previous post) to show why the above scripture would be applicable to a modern context.
I quoted the scripture that shows clearly, that claiming the resurrection is past, will overthrow the faith of some.

That is what the scripture states.

Are you yourself living in a resurrected body that will never die?


JLB
 
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I quoted the scripture that shows clearly, that claiming the resurrection is past, will overthrow the faith of some.

Why did Paul say it would it overthrow the faith of some?

Wouldn't it be easy enough to point to the unopened graves and say "see... no rezzy yet"?

Hint: What damning, faith-destroying error did Paul continuously have to address in his epistles?

Hint #2:Its the same error Paul is accusing Hymenaeus of.
 
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It was Darius who gave the command for the work to resume - 1 Then King Darius issued a decree, and a search was made in the archives, where the treasures were stored in Babylon. Ezra 6:1 11 Also I issue a decree that whoever alters this edict, let a timber be pulled from his house and erected, and let him be hanged on it; and let his house be made a refuse heap because of this. 12 And may the God who causes His name to dwell there destroy any king or people who put their hand to alter it, or to destroy this house of God which is in Jerusalem. I Darius issue a decree; let it be done diligently. 13 Then Tattenai, governor of the region beyond the River, Shethar-Boznai, and their companions diligently did according to what King Darius had sent. Ezra 6:11-13 According to The Word of the lord, Cyrus King of Persia gave the command to restore Jerusalem and the temple. Artexerxes made it stop, which cause a gap it the time line. Darius caused the work that Cyrus decreed to begin, to resume. Read it for yourself from the scriptures.
I have my friend, and here's what it says:

In 520 BC ( Ezra 6:1-5) Darius simply quotes Cyrus, but in vs. 6-12, Darius sends out a decree.
The math however does not work: 520 - 483 = 37 BC = No Messiah yet.

You correctly cite that Atrexerxes original decree is to STOP building .... but stop building UNTIL He says to start again:
Ezra 4:21
Now http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Ezra%204.17-22#footnote4give the command to make these men cease, that this city may not be built until the command is given by me.

And that Command to build, Given by him in 458 BC can be found in Ezra 7:12-26

And THAT math works, no gaps or gymnastics needed.
458BC - 483 = 26 AD
 

JLB

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It was Darius who gave the command for the work to resume - 1 Then King Darius issued a decree, and a search was made in the archives, where the treasures were stored in Babylon. Ezra 6:1 11 Also I issue a decree that whoever alters this edict, let a timber be pulled from his house and erected, and let him be hanged on it; and let his house be made a refuse heap because of this. 12 And may the God who causes His name to dwell there destroy any king or people who put their hand to alter it, or to destroy this house of God which is in Jerusalem. I Darius issue a decree; let it be done diligently. 13 Then Tattenai, governor of the region beyond the River, Shethar-Boznai, and their companions diligently did according to what King Darius had sent. Ezra 6:11-13 According to The Word of the lord, Cyrus King of Persia gave the command to restore Jerusalem and the temple. Artexerxes made it stop, which cause a gap it the time line. Darius caused the work that Cyrus decreed to begin, to resume. Read it for yourself from the scriptures.
I have my friend, and here's what it says:

In 520 BC ( Ezra 6:1-5) Darius simply quotes Cyrus, but in vs. 6-12, Darius sends out a decree.
The math however does not work: 520 - 483 = 37 BC = No Messiah yet.

You correctly cite that Atrexerxes original decree is to STOP building .... but stop building UNTIL He says to start again:
Ezra 4:21
Now http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Ezra%204.17-22#footnote4give the command to make these men cease, that this city may not be built until the command is given by me.

And that Command to build, Given by him in 458 BC can be found in Ezra 7:12-26

And THAT math works, no gaps or gymnastics needed.
458BC - 483 = 26 AD
In you last post, you insisted that Artaxerxes was the starting point of the 70 weeks. you even made a statement and tagged your statement with a scripture reference without quoting the scripture.

Now that you see that was futile, you are now claiming it was Darius who gave the command.



And that Command to build, Given by him in 458 BC can be found in Ezra 7:12-26
Another opinion with a "date" of 458 BC and scripture tag.

I don't find any "dates" in scripture.

I have show you that Artexerses stops the building, but does not issue the original command.

Cyrus is the one who issues the Command.

Cyrus was called and anointed by God for this purpose.

Here are the scriptures, again -

24 Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: "I am the Lord, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself; 25 Who frustrates the signs of the babblers, And drives diviners mad; Who turns wise men backward, And makes their knowledge foolishness; 26 Who confirms the word of His servant, And performs the counsel of His messengers; Who says to Jerusalem, 'You shall be inhabited,' To the cities of Judah, 'You shall be built,' And I will raise up her waste places; 27 Who says to the deep, 'Be dry! And I will dry up your rivers';

28 Who says of Cyrus, 'He is My shepherd, And he shall perform all My pleasure, Saying to Jerusalem, "You shall be built," And to the temple, "Your foundation shall be laid." Isaiah 44:24-28

1 "Thus says the Lord to His anointed, To Cyrus, whose right hand I have held-- To subdue nations before him And loose the armor of kings, To open before him the double doors, So that the gates will not be shut: 2 'I will go before you And make the crooked places straight; I will break in pieces the gates of bronze And cut the bars of iron. 3 I will give you the treasures of darkness And hidden riches of secret places, That you may know that I, the Lord, Who call you by your name, Am the God of Israel.

13 I have raised him up in righteousness, And I will direct all his ways; He shall build My city And let My exiles go free, Not for price nor reward," Says the Lord of hosts. Isaiah 45:1-3,13


HE SHALL BUILD MY CITY AND LET MY EXILES GO FREE.

HE SHALL LET MY EXILES GO FREE.

The Anointed King Cyrus issued the Command to release the Jewish exiles and to rebuild the city of Jerusalem!

Not Artaxerxes!

1 Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and also put it in writing, saying, 2 Thus says Cyrus king of Persia: All the kingdoms of the earth the Lord God of heaven has given me. And He has commanded me to build Him a house at Jerusalem which is in Judah. Ezra 1:1-2


JLB
 
Joined
Jun 27, 2007
Messages
2,227
Christian
Yes
Is futurism dying?

Too ask this question,one would also have too ask the below

2 Peter 3:4

And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation...


My point is,had Christ returned,there would be no debate about it,we would know for sure....Abosolutly,Positively,No Doubt About It!!!!!!

I mean for real though,Preterism,makes no sense AT all,not even common sense....
 
B

Brother Mike

Guest
I mean for real though,Preterism,makes no sense AT all,not even common sense....
You made another brilliant statement. Preterism is a confusing mess with no scriptural support. Now just have to work on that post-trib doctrine and get that all straightened out.

I never heard of Preterism until I came to this forum, so might need to be a thread about "Preterism, the handful of the confused?"

Blessings as always.

Mike.
 

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