Is it okay if I ask this question?

[Webb]

I see Hebrews 10:25, in relationship to the context of who was being spoken to and why. What was the issue of that time, what day was fast approaching?
That is not to say that we should go it alone. But to say one is sinning if they don't go to a building on a certain day is not what this scripture is about.

There is nothing that I can see in Matt. 18:19, 20 that says anything about where, when, or how we fellowship with other Christians. People are the church, the Body of Christ. A man could be on a deserted island and still be in the Body of Christ. When John the Baptist was living in the wilderness, was he saved?

Where is your scripture that says where, when, and how we are to fellowship?
Why are we to fellowship?

Hi Deb
Where is my scripture that says when and how? Try Acts 20:7. The first day of the week. How? They broke bread (the Lord's supper and there was preaching. The where is left to us and does not need to be a building but where convenient to meet. I could be a building as we call it sometimes the "church building" it could be a building owned by the church or even rented. It could be in a cow pasture, etc. The command is to assemble, Heb.10:25. BTW, the command in Heb.10:25 is a imperative command. James chapter 2 mentions the "assembly" and gives instructions for our attitude in it. In I Cor.14 Paul give some very pointed instructions for behavior when the church comes together. In I Cor.11 Paul gives instruction to the church about their misuse of the Lord's supper: "--when ye come together in the church--" vs. 18. In I Cor.4:17 Paul taught he taught the "same thing in all the churches". In I Cor.16:1,2 the assembly is implied for the taking up of the contribution which was when? On the first day of the week! In Heb.2:12 the Hebrew writer says "--in the midst of the church I will sing praises--". What more need I say? From theses verses we see the "what" they did: Prayed, sang, took the Lord's supper,they gave, and heard preaching. That IS what is done when churches assemble on the Lord's day.

As for "the day that is fast approaching" in Heb.10:25 there has been much discussion as to whether the day means the "first day of the week" or the end of time. I do not know, but does it really matter? The reason is given in Heb.10:24, we are to "consider one another to provoke unto love and good works". So whether it be the 1st day of the week or the end of time its something we are not to take vacation from.

Now, about John exiled on Patmos. He was put there as punishment for preaching the gospel of Christ. Being in exile evidently was not of his choosing. One cannot always control what happens to ones self as in the case here of John. One thing is sure however, He expects us to remain as faithful as possible. And what did John do while there?? He wrote letters to the SEVEN CHURCHES of Asia!

Now what about that man alone of a desert island. Such is a hypothetical question is it not? Have you ever known of anyone alone on a deserted island? I have not. I doubt you have. I've seen it in movies and that's fiction and such is the question. BUT should it have ever happened to a Christian, yes, I believe he could be as faithful to God as his circumstances allowed however limited. I do not believe God holds us accountable for that which we CANNOT do. In the war numerous Christian military men found themselves in places where there was no church. To their credit (as did the apostle Paul ) they got busy and preached and taught the gospel and established a congregation. It isn't that hard to establish a new congregation, in the past I began two myself. The NT speaks of "saints in Caesar's household". How so? Very likely when Paul was a prisoner in Rome he preached the gospel to those around him.

No, I absolutely believer you cannot separate Jesus from His church or His church from Him. The NT teaches the church is His body and Ephesians 5 says He is the savior of the body and His church is really out there if we will search for it. But enough said.
God bless,
w

 

[Deborah13]

Hi Deb
Where is my scripture that says when and how? Try Acts 20:7. The first day of the week. How? They broke bread (the Lord's supper and there was preaching. The where is left to us and does not need to be a building but where convenient to meet. I could be a building as we call it sometimes the "church building" it could be a building owned by the church or even rented. It could be in a cow pasture, etc. The command is to assemble, Heb.10:25. BTW, the command in Heb.10:25 is a imperative command. James chapter 2 mentions the "assembly" and gives instructions for our attitude in it. In I Cor.14 Paul give some very pointed instructions for behavior when the church comes together. In I Cor.11 Paul gives instruction to the church about their misuse of the Lord's supper: "--when ye come together in the church--" vs. 18. In I Cor.4:17 Paul taught he taught the "same thing in all the churches". In I Cor.16:1,2 the assembly is implied for the taking up of the contribution which was when? On the first day of the week! In Heb.2:12 the Hebrew writer says "--in the midst of the church I will sing praises--". What more need I say? From theses verses we see the "what" they did: Prayed, sang, took the Lord's supper,they gave, and heard preaching. That IS what is done when churches assemble on the Lord's day.

As for "the day that is fast approaching" in Heb.10:25 there has been much discussion as to whether the day means the "first day of the week" or the end of time. I do not know, but does it really matter? The reason is given in Heb.10:24, we are to "consider one another to provoke unto love and good works". So whether it be the 1st day of the week or the end of time its something we are not to take vacation from.

Now, about John exiled on Patmos. He was put there as punishment for preaching the gospel of Christ. Being in exile evidently was not of his choosing. One cannot always control what happens to ones self as in the case here of John. One thing is sure however, He expects us to remain as faithful as possible. And what did John do while there?? He wrote letters to the SEVEN CHURCHES of Asia!

Now what about that man alone of a desert island. Such is a hypothetical question is it not? Have you ever known of anyone alone on a deserted island? I have not. I doubt you have. I've seen it in movies and that's fiction and such is the question. BUT should it have ever happened to a Christian, yes, I believe he could be as faithful to God as his circumstances allowed however limited. I do not believe God holds us accountable for that which we CANNOT do. In the war numerous Christian military men found themselves in places where there was no church. To their credit (as did the apostle Paul ) they got busy and preached and taught the gospel and established a congregation. It isn't that hard to establish a new congregation, in the past I began two myself. The NT speaks of "saints in Caesar's household". How so? Very likely when Paul was a prisoner in Rome he preached the gospel to those around him.

No, I absolutely believer you cannot separate Jesus from His church or His church from Him. The NT teaches the church is His body and Ephesians 5 says He is the savior of the body and His church is really out there if we will search for it. But enough said.
God bless,
w

God Bless you too, Webb

 

[JLB]

From my understanding of the scripture, I do not believe one can separate Jesus from His church: Matt.16:18; Heb.10:25

The Lord truly identifies Himself with His Covenant people, as this statement from Him is undeniable -

33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.' 37 Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40 And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.' Matthew 25:33-40


However, this verse you quoted has a little bit of a deeper meaning.

16 And Simon Peter answered and said , Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou , Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matthew 16:16-18


The Rock or foundation that Jesus builds His Church upon is: God speaks directly to His people, as He leads them and reveals His Son to them without any help from "flesh and blood".

Of course we need to be taught by anointed teachers and Pastors... however God Himself will reveal His Son to those whom He chooses.

John says it this way -

But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. 1 John 2:27


and The Lord through Jeremiah says of the New Covenant ones -

33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more." Jeremiah 31:33-34


I agree with you that Jesus does not separate Himself from His Church, however there are many who "think" they are of His Church that are not.


Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity." 2 Timothy 2:19


There is a difference in "going to Church" and "being the Church".





JLB

 

[Webb]

The Lord truly identifies Himself with His Covenant people, as this statement from Him is undeniable -

33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.' 37 Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40 And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.' Matthew 25:33-40


However, this verse you quoted has a little bit of a deeper meaning.

16 And Simon Peter answered and said , Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou , Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matthew 16:16-18


The Rock or foundation that Jesus builds His Church upon is: God speaks directly to His people, as He leads them and reveals His Son to them without any help from "flesh and blood".

Of course we need to be taught by anointed teachers and Pastors... however God Himself will reveal His Son to those whom He chooses.

John says it this way -

But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. 1 John 2:27


and The Lord through Jeremiah says of the New Covenant ones -

33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more." Jeremiah 31:33-34


I agree with you that Jesus does not separate Himself from His Church, however there are many who "think" they are of His Church that are not.


Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity." 2 Timothy 2:19


There is a difference in "going to Church" and "being the Church".


I agree with your statement that there is a difference in "going to church and being in the church." I agree with your concern that "many think they are in the church when they are not." However such is not the discussion. The discussion is based on Heb.10:25, can one forsake the assembly and be pleasing to God?

The Lord's church is out there, search for it and stop seeking ways to disobey the Creator.




JLB

 

[Deborah13]

What do you consider an assembly?

 

[Webb]

What do you consider an assembly?

I don't know if the above was addressed to me or not but very briefly our English word church is from the Koine Greek, ekklesia , assembly. It refers to a called group. For example those attending a movie theater are a church or assembly, they have been called out of the routine affairs of life for a few hours to see a film. It can be a ball game etc. Jesus said He would build His church, Matt.16:18, it is composed of those those who have been called out of the world by the gospel, II Thes.2:14. Sometimes the word church is used in its universal sense and at other times its local sense. As time allows I shall be happy to enlarge on this if need be.
God bless,
w
,

 

[Deborah13]

I don't know if the above was addressed to me or not but very briefly our English word church is from the Koine Greek, ekklesia , assembly. It refers to a called group. For example those attending a movie theater are a church or assembly, they have been called out of the routine affairs of life for a few hours to see a film. It can be a ball game etc. Jesus said He would build His church, Matt.16:18, it is composed of those those who have been called out of the world by the gospel, II Thes.2:14. Sometimes the word church is used in its universal sense and at other times its local sense. As time allows I shall be happy to enlarge on this if need be.
God bless,
w
,

Thank you. We agree. I think we can say that the church are the believers in Christ. A gathering of these believers is an assembly.
I think there a very few times that the Lord does not explain in His Word why He wants us to do/not do certain things and of coarse ultimately the purpose of all things are to glorify Him.