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Is Jesus Christ also Michael the Arch Angel ?

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savedbygrace57

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Rev 12:


7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

This scripture testified of a great conflict between Michael and the Dragon, which is Satan, the Arch Angel is none other than The Lord Jesus Christ; For this is known because of the words Arch Angel, which means Chief Messenger, and so what Greater Messenger than Jesus Christ ? Who By the Way is the Messenger of the Covenant Mal 3:

1Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger or prince of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

In Daniel 10 21


21But I will shew thee [Daniel] that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

Michael is here said to be Daniels Prince !! see acts 5:

31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Christ here is called a Prince along with being called a Saviour or Deliverer, Now, who is Daniels Prince and Saviour, but the Lord Jesus Christ ?

In Daniel 12:

1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Michael is called the Great Prince of thy People , again, this could be none other than The Prince and Saviour of Israel [acts 5:31] Gods Chosen People.
 
Hi Savedbygrace,

Michael is an Angel in the sense that he is a celestial being. These celestial beings are also called Prince.

Exodus 23: 20 "See, I am sending an angel (Messenger, not celestial) ahead of you to guard you along the way and to bring you to the place I have prepared. 21 Pay attention to him and listen to what he says. Do not rebel against him; he will not forgive your rebellion, since my Name is in him.

The place that I have prepared is in reference to the Tabernacle, which is a copy of heavenly things which themselves point to heavenly things. The story in itself (through verse 26) is a repeat of the creation account. What I would like to explore is "But to whome of God's messengers has God given the authority to forgive sins, and to whome of God's messengers is God's Name in him?" (Heb 1)

Ironically the Jews believe the Angel spoken to in Exodus is the Angel Metatron who we first see in Genesis 16:7 and again as it relates to Exodus in Joshua 5:13-15. But speaking of God's name being in him (Metatron), the Hebrew numerical value of Metatron's name is 314. In comparison, what is translated into english as God Almighty is El Shaddai. Shaddai also takes on the numerical value of 314. Thus we have an ancient thought within Hebrew theology which connect the two.

What's ironic about this, is the name El Shaddai (God Almighty) is viewed in Hebrew scripture as the great shepherd who protects and guides His flock which David echo's by way of example in 1 Sam 17:34-36. If we stop and think for a moment, how many times does Jesus call himself the Good Shepherd?

This brings me back to Joshua 5:13-15 as the Angel of the Lord to whom God's name is in, as well as the authority to forgive sins, is is bringing God's people into the land he's promised on oath to Abraham, as well as causing them to be fruitful and multiply (Ex. 23:30). Doesn't this also point forward?
 
stove:

Michael is an Angel in the sense that he is a celestial being. These celestial beings are also called Prince.

Thats not accurate, He is called an Arch Angel, can you provide us with any other Angel being called an Arch Angel ?

The only other is the one in 1 thess 4 which I would contend is Jesus Christ.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Steve? Who's steve? :lol

But yeah, I'll do some research and get back with ya on that probably by tomorrow if I get a chance. Sorry for the delay... Lots going on if ya know what I mean.

BTW, I agree that Michael is the lead angel, that much is clear. Have you done any studies on Metatron?
 
Steve? Who's steve? :lol

But yeah, I'll do some research and get back with ya on that probably by tomorrow if I get a chance. Sorry for the delay... Lots going on if ya know what I mean.

BTW, I agree that Michael is the lead angel, that much is clear. Have you done any studies on Metatron?

There is only One Arch Angel, Chief Messenger !
 
The language of Jude 9 seems to point to Michael being the chief amongst the angels, not the Lord Himself:

Jude 9 "But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, "The Lord rebuke you."

Also, 1 Thess 4:16 which SBG mentioned states, "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall arise first."

I've never taken this to mean that Jesus has the voice of the archangel because He is the archangel, but that the angels come down from heaven with Him and Michael the archangel shall sound a mighty shout as they do so. This falls in line with what Jesus said in Matthew 24:30-31 "...and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other."

Looking at these Matthew 24 and 1Thess 4 together, I see the Son of Man and the archangel being two different persons. Add Jude 9 to the mix and I really cannot fathom Jesus arguing with Satan about Moses' body.

Malachi 3:1 seems to be a clear prophecy of John the Baptist for it was John the Baptist who "cleared" the way before Christ. Matthew testified this in Matthew 3:3 "For this is the one referred to by Isaiah the prophet, saying 'The voice of one crying in the wilderness, make ready the way of the Lord.'"

As for Daniel, one text in Daniel that points to Michael being an angel rather than the Lord Himself is 10:13 which states that Michael is one of the chief princes. Indicating that he is only one of others. Jesus is One and Only.

SBG are you aware that the Mormons teach that Jesus and Michael are one in the same?
 
There is only One Arch Angel, Chief Messenger !
You'll find no argument there with me, that's for sure :thumbsup

But let's take this seriously shall we? For Paul even wrote in Colossians 2:18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions.

There is only one Messenger that has God's name in him, and only one Messenger that can forgive Sins....

God said,
Exodus 23: 20 "See, I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you along the way and to bring you to the place I have prepared. 21 Pay attention to him and listen to what he says. Do not rebel against him; he will not forgive your rebellion, since my Name is in him.

Jesus said,
John 5:43 I have come in my Father's name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.
John 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.


We do not worship Angels... Agreed?
 
handy:

Malachi 3:1 seems to be a clear prophecy of John the Baptist for it was John the Baptist who "cleared" the way before Christ.

It is John the baptist as to the first messenger mentioned in the verse Mal 3:

1Behold, I will send my messenger[John the Baptist], and he shall prepare the way before me: and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant[Jesus Christ], whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

He, John the Baptist prepares the way for the Messenger of the Covenant, as He comes to His Temple. It was not Johns Temple, think about it. You are showing poor judgment.
 
You are showing poor judgment.

Let's talk nicely with each other, 'K!

I had quite a bit of other texts we can look at, if you are interested in looking over them. I fully agree that Jesus is the Angel of the Lord that is mentioned at various times in the Old Testament, most notably being the One that visited with Hagar in Genesis 16:10-13.

But, I don't agree that Michael and Jesus are one and the same. I guess I've lived amongst the Mormons for too many years and have thrashed this out with them. As I pointed out earlier, Daniel 10:13 shows that Michael is one of many "chief princes". There is nothing in any of these texts that demands that we look at Michael as Jesus in the same way that Genesis 16:10-13 does.
 
Hi Dora,

Like yourself, I also view Genesis 16 in the same light you do. Have you ever looked at the passage in Genesis 23 as well? It really lends itself to 24:1 :)
 
SBG, I was reading over your OP again and noted this:

21But I will shew thee [Daniel] that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.
Michael is here said to be Daniels Prince !! see acts 5:

31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Christ here is called a Prince along with being called a Saviour or Deliverer, Now, who is Daniels Prince and Saviour, but the Lord Jesus Christ ?

In Daniel 12:

1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Michael is called the Great Prince of thy People , again, this could be none other than The Prince and Saviour of Israel [acts 5:31] Gods Chosen People.
Jeff touched on this with his post and I just wanted to add to keep in mind Ephesians 2:1-2 "And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience."

"Prince" is a title that is applied to spirits/angels, both good and evil. Yes, Jesus is the Prince of Peace, but all "princes" in the Bible are not referring to Jesus.

That Daniel refers to Michael as the "great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people" only shows that Michael has a prominent angelic role, not that he is Christ Himself.
 
I can see it either way, and don't see a big problem either way. Even though I would rather not give the appearance of agreeing with anything that might be considered Mormon, I lean towards seeing Michael as being an OT Christophany.

Several thoughts:
Michael translates to "who is like God".
Angels are not always celestial beings.
Prince often refers to priest.
Is not a mediator a messenger?:shrug
 
Ahh, Exodus 23 and 24...

StoveBolts said:
Hi Dora,

Like yourself, I also view Genesis 16 in the same light you do. Have you ever looked at the passage in Genesis 23 as well? It really lends itself to 24:1 :)

Hence the confusion! :biglol

I do believe that Exodus 24:1 as well as Exodus 3:2 are speaking of Jesus. And, I believe it was Jesus on Mount Sinai with Moses during the giving of the commandments. Exodus 19:18 speaks of the Lord "coming down on Sinai". Maybe I'm needing more study on these things, but when reading of any kind of physical presence of the Lord here on Earth, I automatically assume it is speaking of the Son.

However, I believe that Exodus 23:20 is referring to a different angel, most likely Michael. Reason being that God is speaking the very words of 23:20-23 and He refers to the fact that He will be sending an angel (not the Angel of the Lord) and the Lord speaks of this angel in the 3rd person. As far as "My name is in him" Michael does contain the name of the Lord and Michael does hold the role of protector of Israel.

As for the forgiveness of sins, even the human apostles could withhold forgiveness of sins as per John 20:23.

So, as of now, I lean toward Exodus 23:20-23 referring to an angel and most likely that angel is Michael.
 
I can see it either way, and don't see a big problem either way. Even though I would rather not give the appearance of agreeing with anything that might be considered Mormon, I lean towards seeing Michael as being an OT Christophany.

Several thoughts:
Michael translates to "who is like God".
Angels are not always celestial beings.
Prince often refers to priest.
Is not a mediator a messenger?:shrug
tis not moramonism but the jws that call the christ micheal and archangel.

if the lord was but an archangel who then does one like smaller believe in the trinity when the lord is spoken off as being above the angels and an arc angel is still and angel.

and God is God and must be from everlasting and angles are created beings.
 
Angels are created beings. Jesus is not a created being. Therefore, Jesus is not an angel.
 
tis not moramonism but the jws that call the christ micheal and archangel.

if the lord was but an archangel who then does one like smaller believe in the trinity when the lord is spoken off as being above the angels and an arc angel is still and angel.

and God is God and must be from everlasting and angles are created beings.

Jason, I stand corrected. My apologies, I do talk with a lot of Mormons and I've worked with a lot of JW's, hence my addled confusion. Mormons teach that Michael is Adam and is the father of Jesus and Lucifer. :oops

The point of angels being created beings and therefore Jesus cannot be an angel is true, but I do believe that the Angel of the Lord is Jesus. The Angel of the Lord more likely being a title rather than indicating that Jesus was a created being such as an angel.
 
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