Growth Is keeping your Body Fit an Acceptable Sacrifice to the Lord?

[tim-from-pa]

I wonder why this is not in the health/nutrition forum? We talk about this kind of stuff over there all the time. This board tends to break down into mini-forums with a certain set of members gravitating to each one. I won't repeat myself about the dangers of processed foods in excess, kosher, and going more natural along with supplements. Visit some of my posts over there to get a feel of the interesting things I say. One other thing, like I always quip: take the worldly, medical health advice, turn it around 180 degrees, and you'll be just fine.

 

[Sandy Zalecki]

It absolutely is a sin to eat something that you know is going to kill you. It is a sin to accept what the world has done to our food supply without trying to do something about it. Gluttony is a sin according to Titus 1:12.

 

[Gary]

Mark 16
17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

 

[Gary]

It absolutely is a sin to eat something that you know is going to kill you. It is a sin to accept what the world has done to our food supply without trying to do something about it. Gluttony is a sin according to Titus 1:12.

Google "Monsanto the evil empire". Watch some of the videos on youtube.
.

 

[Free]

I wonder why this is not in the health/nutrition forum? We talk about this kind of stuff over there all the time. This board tends to break down into mini-forums with a certain set of members gravitating to each one.

Because this is a theological study of health, not a general health discussion.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Because this is a theological study of health, not a general health discussion.

OK, I can dig that, although just so that you know there's a blur between the two as I see it, as my rants against mainline nutritional advice are often empowered by what I believe the bible teaches instead. In other words, if I am talking about proper diet to even a worldly person, the bible comes into play as to what to eat, so nutrition and bible doctrine are one in the same to me.

Whether we want to admit it or not, this thread then borders on Kosher eating (which I agree with) and keeping away from the biblical warnings of mixing (as Sandy pointed out with the things they do to our foods). Even those foods deemed Kosher by our Jewish friends I don't fully agree with being healthy. And likewise, the stuff they tell us to avoid I may eat in abundance, but that is not treating your body wrongly as the temple of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Free]

OK, I can dig that, although just so that you know there's a blur between the two as I see it, as my rants against mainline nutritional advice are often empowered by what I believe the bible teaches instead. In other words, if I am talking about proper diet to even a worldly person, the bible comes into play as to what to eat, so nutrition and bible doctrine are one in the same to me.

The Bible doesn't give the Christian any nutritional advice, that I can think of.

Whether we want to admit it or not, this thread then borders on Kosher eating (which I agree with) and keeping away from the biblical warnings of mixing (as Sandy pointed out with the things they do to our foods). Even those foods deemed Kosher by our Jewish friends I don't fully agree with being healthy. And likewise, the stuff they tell us to avoid I may eat in abundance, but that is not treating your body wrongly as the temple of the Holy Spirit.

There is nothing that I have seen in this thread that even gets remotely close to Kosher eating or biblical warnings of mixing.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Free,

That's the impression I gotten when Sandy posted the question:

Is presenting your over weight, chronic disease ridden body an acceptable sacrifice to the Lord? Is this the temple that the Holy Spirit wants to occupy? I don’t believe it is.

How else does it get that way unless by the path of the things I mentioned? One cannot talk health without consideration of the diet. But of course the Holy Spirit does not want to occupy such a person. Does the Holy Spirit still occupy that person? Sure. The question was asked if the Spirit wants to, however. I'll give the Spirit the benefit for having preferences like any of us do.

The Bible doesn't give the Christian any nutritional advice, that I can think of.

Then you don't know the bible at all, for it gives advice on every area of life.

So the whole issue (spiritually speaking) relates to obedience, and proper living relating to biblical health. The pragmatic and practical way to approach this is in part, by diet. Now if I'm missing something here in this conversation, I'm open to suggestions.

 

[Gary]

How else does it get that way unless by the path of the things I mentioned? One cannot talk health without consideration of the diet. But of course the Holy Spirit does not want to occupy such a person. Does the Holy Spirit still occupy that person? Sure. The question was asked if the Spirit wants to, however. I'll give the Spirit the benefit for having preferences like any of us do.

The thing that determines whether the Holy Spirit will reside within an individual is the condition of the heart, not the condition of the body.

The Lord searches the spiritual, not the physical. The heart is spiritual, the body is physical.
.

 

[jasoncran]

I am in the process of writing an article on this very topic for my own site.

Here are the opening couple of lines:.
"......God created us in His image. Who here thinks He looks like the Michelin man? Pillsbury Dough boy? C'mon show of hands please......No one?
Didn't think so......."

....."We must keep our bodies, minds, hearts and souls fit for Him. He gave us the complete package and we should do our best to preserve it or as my own case, restore it.".......

Copyright 2014 www.hisnarrowpath.com

off topic, what god looks like isn't said. all the imagery shown is just that. pm me if you wish to know more.

 

[jasoncran]

ok since sandy said that. I will ask its a sin to sell , make and produce unhealthy foods?i aslo will state this. I could forsake jesus for what I like to do. I have to watch that. have I been overweight ? yes but theres a lot of grey in that. I may be over the army weight standards but compared to the average American im far from out of shape.i also have low bp and low cholesterol.

 

[tim-from-pa]

The thing that determines whether the Holy Spirit will reside within an individual is the condition of the heart, not the condition of the body.

The Lord searches the spiritual, not the physical. The heart is spiritual, the body is physical.
.

Oh, I agree. That's why I humorously stated want vs. actuality. It was tongue-in-cheek. However, what one does physically to their body reflects on their spiritual condition, i.e. obedience (or lack thereof) or maybe ignorance of scriptures or whatever. The same can be said about material things for example. One does not have to give money and offerings to have the Spirit, but if they have the Spirit, they will have a great tendency to do so. This is why when fellows as myself say the Law is not done away with, it gets confused with my saying "works righteousness". No, the issue isn't works in and of itself (including taking care of the body) but whose works? Self power or by Spirit?

I take this topic seriously. I think the reason why some Christians struggle with illness (barring perhaps a genetic cause, born that way or whatever) is because they are listening to advice to stay healthy, but it's the wrong advice. It's worldly advice, not the Spirit. But I and some others pointed this out, and the same ones who want healing or talk about healing then get hot under the collar because down deep they want to be healthy, but continue on in, (well, to put it bluntly), sin. You can't have it both ways. It's not always easy to admit wrong doing. I understand that. And we all do it in moments of weakness. But sometimes it's wrong and it's not admitted to and thus keep on doing it. That's when it's a problem.

 

[Free]

Free,

That's the impression I gotten when Sandy posted the question:

But again, there is nothing that I have seen in this thread that even gets remotely close to Kosher eating or biblical warnings of mixing. There is nothing in Sandy's question that would suggest such a conclusion.

How else does it get that way unless by the path of the things I mentioned? One cannot talk health without consideration of the diet. But of course the Holy Spirit does not want to occupy such a person. Does the Holy Spirit still occupy that person? Sure. The question was asked if the Spirit wants to, however. I'll give the Spirit the benefit for having preferences like any of us do.

That's simply an unanswerable question and we should be careful to not say more than we ought about that.

Then you don't know the bible at all, for it gives advice on every area of life.

Actually, no, it does not, and among those areas it does not is dietary advice for Christians.

So the whole issue (spiritually speaking) relates to obedience, and proper living relating to biblical health. The pragmatic and practical way to approach this is in part, by diet. Now if I'm missing something here in this conversation, I'm open to suggestions.

What you're missing is that the Bible says very little, if anything, about how to live a physically healthy lifestyle, so there is nothing to be obedient to. Of course a case can be made for the Bible suggesting that one should not get stressed and be joyful, and that "bodily training is of some value" (1 Tim 4:8, ESV), but that is about it. We should not make the Bible say more than it does.

 

[agua.]

How about

1Ti 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

 

[Claudya]

How about

1Ti 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

That's to teach us that people were the same at all times: they find all kinds of excuses to drink alcohol.

It absolutely is a sin to eat something that you know is going to kill you. It is a sin to accept what the world has done to our food supply without trying to do something about it. Gluttony is a sin according to Titus 1:12.

I agree with you almost completely on the issue of this thread. I'm a health and fitness crazy person, too.
We all have bee given a unique and amazing human life and a more or less healthy human body. Our physical life is strongly connected to our spiritual life (we have a saying here: In a healthy body dwells a healthy spirit), although many christians thoughtlessly equate the needs of our body with the Biblical Pauline concept of the "flesh" that stands in the way of the spirit. But it's only our bodies that enable us to experience and enjoy God's creation, learn about Him, praise Him, extend His love to other people, help people in need So we should keep our body in the best shape we can.
It's a gift from God to enjoy and make good use of. We should honour that gift not only for the sake of the gift, but also for the One who gave it to us.

Yet I want to remind you and everyone that there is a danger in how far we go. For some people health and fitness is like a new religion. There are scientists that suggest that obssessively eating healthy can turn into an eating disorder.
And while it is true we shouldn't eat things that kill us it's absolutely okay to eat even processed junk food if it's done in moderation. That means if you've been eating healthy and exercising all week then it's okay to have a (regular sized!!) fast food menu on sunday. Our bodies can handle that if it's something we do only occassionally.

 

[tim-from-pa]

What you're missing is that the Bible says very little, if anything, about how to live a physically healthy lifestyle, so there is nothing to be obedient to. Of course a case can be made for the Bible suggesting that one should not get stressed and be joyful, and that "bodily training is of some value" (1 Tim 4:8, ESV), but that is about it. We should not make the Bible say more than it does.

OK then, I'll serve you some rats and spiders tonight for supper, if the bible says very little.

And keep in mind, saying nothing is saying something. This is why the restrictive dietary advice they give today is nonsense, because the bible does not deem it non-Kosher. Foods which the Israelites ate are considered today as bad such as giving heart disease, cancer and other stuff. But they did not have it. Kosher people actually live it up more than those following worldly advice, provided they stay in the bounds of the bible, and the types of foods they ate.

I'm just here to make sure we know the difference between such sources of information, and that people following the advice out there somehow think they are healthier and doing the Holy Spirit a favor, or to that effect.

 

[Sandy Zalecki]

That's to teach us that people were the same at all times: they find all kinds of excuses to drink alcohol.


I agree with you almost completely on the issue of this thread. I'm a health and fitness crazy person, too.
We all have bee given a unique and amazing human life and a more or less healthy human body. Our physical life is strongly connected to our spiritual life (we have a saying here: In a healthy body dwells a healthy spirit), although many christians thoughtlessly equate the needs of our body with the Biblical Pauline concept of the "flesh" that stands in the way of the spirit. But it's only our bodies that enable us to experience and enjoy God's creation, learn about Him, praise Him, extend His love to other people, help people in need So we should keep our body in the best shape we can.
It's a gift from God to enjoy and make good use of. We should honour that gift not only for the sake of the gift, but also for the One who gave it to us.

Yet I want to remind you and everyone that there is a danger in how far we go. For some people health and fitness is like a new religion. There are scientists that suggest that obssessively eating healthy can turn into an eating disorder.
And while it is true we shouldn't eat things that kill us it's absolutely okay to eat even processed junk food if it's done in moderation. That means if you've been eating healthy and exercising all week then it's okay to have a (regular sized!!) fast food menu on sunday. Our bodies can handle that if it's something we do only occassionally.

Amen sister!! I live by the 80/20 rule. Good 80% or the time bad 20% of the time, but I find the more I eat healthy, the less of the bad stuff I can stomach. The food I used to like makes me want to through up when I see it now. Funny though, I still can't say that about pizza. I only try and eat it about once every couple of months.

 

[Claudya]

Amen sister!! I live by the 80/20 rule. Good 80% or the time bad 20% of the time, but I find the more I eat healthy, the less of the bad stuff I can stomach. The food I used to like makes me want to through up when I see it now. Funny though, I still can't say that about pizza. I only try and eat it about once every couple of months.

Yes I too noticed that the more I get used to healthy food the less attractive most unhealthy foods become. It's great that we can get used to a healthy lifestyle so easily, because those sugary and fatty foods sure are tempting.

Oh yeah, Pizza....

Or anything with cheese on it.
But the real temptation for me are cookies. My church always has a huge stock of cookies (there's a cookie factory in a little town not far south of here and they have a cheap factory sale, and some people from my church live in the neighbourhood of that factory) so people have something to eat during group or team meetings, or after the services. Although I eat healthy and those cookies are a pile of highly processed fat and sugar there's no way I could resist eating way too many of them every time I'm at my church. I wish they'd find a new place to stash the cookies and would keep it secret from me.

Oh btw if you love pizza, how about instead of buying a refrigerated pizza or a fast food restaurant pizza you could buy the ingredients and make your own. It'd still be processed food, but it's way better you buy fresh products and do the processing yourself because you will know what ingredients you used and have control of how much fat, salt or sugar you put in there. Also preparing and eating a pizza together can be a fun group activity as a family or with friends, neighbours or a church group.

 

[Sandy Zalecki]

Yes I too noticed that the more I get used to healthy food the less attractive most unhealthy foods become. It's great that we can get used to a healthy lifestyle so easily, because those sugary and fatty foods sure are tempting.

Oh yeah, Pizza....

Or anything with cheese on it.
But the real temptation for me are cookies. My church always has a huge stock of cookies (there's a cookie factory in a little town not far south of here and they have a cheap factory sale, and some people from my church live in the neighbourhood of that factory) so people have something to eat during group or team meetings, or after the services. Although I eat healthy and those cookies are a pile of highly processed fat and sugar there's no way I could resist eating way too many of them every time I'm at my church. I wish they'd find a new place to stash the cookies and would keep it secret from me.

Oh btw if you love pizza, how about instead of buying a refrigerated pizza or a fast food restaurant pizza you could buy the ingredients and make your own. It'd still be processed food, but it's way better you buy fresh products and do the processing yourself because you will know what ingredients you used and have control of how much fat, salt or sugar you put in there. Also preparing and eating a pizza together can be a fun group activity as a family or with friends, neighbours or a church group.

Cookies are my husband's favorite. He is the cookie monster. Love pizza. I will have to look into making some of my own. Sounds like a great idea!!

 

[Free]

OK then, I'll serve you some rats and spiders tonight for supper, if the bible says very little.

I'm not sure how that addresses what I said. The fact is, the Bible gives no dietary restrictions to Christians. Some people in some countries do eat rats and spiders; it's likely a cultural thing or done out of necessity.

And keep in mind, saying nothing is saying something. This is why the restrictive dietary advice they give today is nonsense, because the bible does not deem it non-Kosher.

I don't understand your point here.

Foods which the Israelites ate are considered today as bad such as giving heart disease, cancer and other stuff. But they did not have it. Kosher people actually live it up more than those following worldly advice, provided they stay in the bounds of the bible, and the types of foods they ate.

And you know this how? You are creating a false dualism between what you think the Bible says and "worldly advice."

I'm just here to make sure we know the difference between such sources of information, and that people following the advice out there somehow think they are healthier and doing the Holy Spirit a favor, or to that effect.

Given that the Bible is not to be used as a source for diet--to do so is to miss the whole point and misuse Scripture--what other sources are there?