Is the Trinity biblical? Is Jesus really God?

Discussion in 'Theology' started by FolloweOfGod, Nov 21, 2017.

?

Is this article saying the truth about the Trinity?

  1. Yes

    33.3%
  2. No

    66.7%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. jaybird

    jaybird Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2017
    Messages:
    383
    Location:
    Arkansas
    is asking questions considered hostile? just want to make sure i am not breaking rules by asking questions like the scripture commands us to do.
     
  2. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    45,874
    Location:
    State of Jefferson
    Christian:
    Yes
    The snark was noticed
     
  3. chessman

    chessman Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    3,635
    Location:
    Florida
    Correct. We worship God, not His lower angels or creatures.

    The Lamb of God is God (because He’s the Son voluntarily taking on flesh, dying and rising in accordance with the Eternal plan of Salvation). Thus, we see him worshiped in His Revelation:

    And they are crying-out with a loud voice, saying “Salvation belongs to our God sitting on the throne and to the Lamb”.
    ... Because the Lamb at the center of the throne will shepherd them, and guide them to springs of the waters of life. And God will wipe-away every tear from their eyes”.
    Revelation 7:10,17 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Revelation 7:10,17&version=DLNT
     
  4. Randy

    Randy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Messages:
    1,112
    Christian:
    Yes
    What I did read is you stated no one understands the trinity. You find it odd to ask the Lord for wisdom? He is also called "wonderful counselor"
    hypostatic union -Please explain what that is and address how that applies to the Holy Spirit - God is Spirit
    I have addressed the Spirit of the Son and the Spirit of the Father The fullness of God was pleased to dwell in the Son.
    one God one lord one spirit

    One must believe in Jesus and He is called Christ the Son of God Hence the early believers called them selves "Christ-ians"
     
  5. Randy

    Randy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Messages:
    1,112
    Christian:
    Yes
    That puts Jesus at the beginning of creating with God which is cohesive with what I believe about the Son
    He is all that the Father is - God in that context
    He was before the world began
    The creation was made through Him
    He also says, "In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.

    This puts Jesus before the world began John 17:5 NIV
    And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

    At some point in history before the world began Jesus became firstborn a beginning but no end - He has always been the Son
     
  6. Randy

    Randy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Messages:
    1,112
    Christian:
    Yes
    He has always been the Son - However all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell in Him - that is possible
     
  7. chessman

    chessman Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    3,635
    Location:
    Florida
    First, the Text says “in the beginning” He was God, not at the beginning. There’s a difference.

    Second, creating “with God” is creating with The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit.

    Scripture please?

    What “history” before the beginning of the world? Now there’s an contradiction.

    But let’s overlook your contradiction and ask;
    If The Son became The Son, then did The Father become The Father? Answer this please.
     
  8. wondering

    wondering Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2015
    Messages:
    9,591
    Please explain the Trinity if you can.
    If you explain it correctly, maybe you could come here and explain it to a couple of theologians I know. They don't seem to be able to understand it.

    The hypostatic union has to do with Jesus being fully God and fully man.
    That was also being discussed.
    I would suppose you really understand that too.

    There are some things about Christianity that I accept without understanding them.
    If you understand everything about God, that's wonderful.
    I don't and I never will because God is extremely far above us.
    Who can know His ways?
    I like this verse...
    Job 38:4......

    If someone believes they understand everything about God, chances are they don't.
     
  9. wondering

    wondering Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2015
    Messages:
    9,591
    At some point in history?
    This would mean that the Son had a beginning, as you state above.

    Jesus IS GOD.
    He had no beginning. He always was and He always will be.
    John 1:1 Jesus is the Word. Jesus IS GOD.
    John 5:18
    Rev 22:13

    Please provide a scripture that says the Son had a beginning.

    This is why you THINK you understand the Trinity,,,
    because you do not.
    Jesus is God.


    Please provide scripture.
     
  10. Randy

    Randy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Messages:
    1,112
    Christian:
    Yes
    No they don't - they can't explain the trinity as written other than a mystery - I have explained why Jesus is called God and scripture calls Him the firstborn of all creation but that doesn't fit their mystery so they can't accept it. Further more even though no one can explain the mystery they have backed themselves into they refuse to seek wisdom with the Lord Himself.
     
  11. Randy

    Randy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Messages:
    1,112
    Christian:
    Yes
    Fully God and fully man?
    Jesus has a God and also has His own spirit.
    Jesus received from the Father.
    Jesus calls the Father the one true God. If He always was and always was God then how do you believe in ONE God for Jesus stated on the cross "Father into your hands I commit my spirit"?

    I understand that Jesus is Gods firstborn and that the fullness was pleased to dwell IN Him. Jesus(his spirit) is not that fullness. The fullness of the godhead would be the Fathers being.
    I understandard How Jesus and the Father are one. Jesus taught that.

    On this day the believers will have a common frame of reference to understand the "oneness"
    I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one23I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.
    “If you love me, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will bec in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live.20On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”


    Is Jesus God?
    He never dies
    Yes, He is all that the Father is
    no, He has always been the Son
     
  12. Randy

    Randy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Messages:
    1,112
    Christian:
    Yes
    The firstborn of all creation. At some point in history before the world began God formed His spirit. A beginning. Making the Father His God and His heavenly Father.

    The Father by from whom all things came. The Son through Whom the creation was made. No mention of the Spirit
    Did Paul forget?

    yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
     
  13. Randy

    Randy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Messages:
    1,112
    Christian:
    Yes
    Yes it is and has nothing to do with pregnancy.
     
  14. chessman

    chessman Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    3,635
    Location:
    Florida
    Do you have access to a Bible whereby you can support this claim with some Scripture?
    And did you catch what you just said (which is my point); "Making the Father His God and His heavenly Father"

    Since you failed to answer my question directly (even though I said please): "If The Son became The Son, then did The Father become The Father?", then we are left with the conclusion that your weak and unsupportable Biblical case for The Son's beginning is that The Father also became The Father at this same imaginary "point in history" when The Son began.
     
  15. Randy

    Randy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Messages:
    1,112
    Christian:
    Yes
    The Son received from the Father. There is no scripture that shows the Father receiving from any being. So if the Father has a beginning it couldn't be by any other being.
    Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.

    Jesus Himself calls the Father His God.
    Also you have the testimony of the Father
    You love righteousness and hate wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.
     
  16. Free

    Free Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2003
    Messages:
    13,143
    Location:
    AB, Canada
    Of course it has nothing to do with pregnancy. That is an analogy that shows the irrationality of your position.
     
  17. Justicewolf

    Justicewolf Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2017
    Messages:
    310
  18. Free

    Free Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2003
    Messages:
    13,143
    Location:
    AB, Canada
    The Greek of John 1:1 is such that when the beginning began, the Word was already in existence. And as I previously stated, “firstborn” does not necessarily mean one that came into existence, one who is literally firstborn. It can mean that one has the rights as of one who is the firtsborn even though they actually aren’t the firstborn. That is a legitimate biblical usage.

    In regards to Jesus then, it means that he is preeminent, he is Lord over all creation. It does not mean that there was a time when the Son did not exist.

    Just as “one God, the Father, from whom all things came,” speaks to his eternal existence, so “one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came,” speaks to his eternal existence.

    It is exactly the same language. And if Paul is right that “all things came” through Jesus, then logic tells us that Jesus cannot be one of those created things. This is in perfect agreement with John 1:3 and Col. 1:16-17.
     
  19. Free

    Free Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2003
    Messages:
    13,143
    Location:
    AB, Canada
    Did you mean to post that in this thread?
     
  20. Justicewolf

    Justicewolf Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2017
    Messages:
    310
    I sure did. Thanks. It seemed to be desperately needed given the atmosphere of animus that seems to brew here. Contradictory I think when discussing the grace and love of our Lord. Thank you so much for asking. God's blessings surround you.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page