isreal and the trib and millenium

[jasoncran]

how will salvation go from a personal decision to a national offer by the lord and what will the message from the jewish nation be to the goyim in the trib and millenium?

 

[tim-from-pa]

how will salvation go from a personal decision to a national offer by the lord ....

I'll use a worldy example type question:

How can life insurance go from a personal decision to buy it to a corporate offer where people work?

 

[jasoncran]

I'll use a worldy example type question:

How can life insurance go from a personal decision to buy it to a corporate offer where people work?

ok that negates the idea of a national salvation of isreal. why? because all these jews saved before the rapture are what you just described.

people make up the nation of isreal. when you look at it that way and functioning of the church it makes sense to say that for isreal to return and be that light doesnt line up with what jesus came to do.

the idea of the seed of eve that would bring the redeemer to save the world means that the redeemer himself died for the world. he not isreal is that light of men.

 

[tim-from-pa]

ok that negates the idea of a national salvation of isreal. why? because all these jews saved before the rapture are what you just described.

people make up the nation of isreal. when you look at it that way and functioning of the church it makes sense to say that for isreal to return and be that light doesnt line up with what jesus came to do.

the idea of the seed of eve that would bring the redeemer to save the world means that the redeemer himself died for the world. he not isreal is that light of men.

Not sure what you are driving at, Jason. Some are saved now, and some later, i.e. the millennium when they as a nation will have Messiah reigning over them, they are saved from destruction, restored nationally, and offered the new covenant in Jeremiah 31.

 

[jasoncran]

Not sure what you are driving at, Jason. Some are saved now, and some later, i.e. the millennium when they as a nation will have Messiah reigning over them, they are saved from destruction, restored nationally, and offered the new covenant in Jeremiah 31.

sorry the new covenant is for all that has been fulfilled.

he made that for them at the cross.the problem is then will that apply to the people like rachab? and other gentiles who joined themselves to isreal. then theres the parts in these millenial verses of yours that mention levites offering up sin sacrifices and the law being used. hmm that is too ot testament like to be under this new way with the law in them. the blood of animals doesnt save. so why would jesus go back?

 

[smaller]

The issues with the blinded of Israel are seldom seen:

Hosea 4:12
My people ask counsel at their stocks, and their staff declareth unto them: for the spirit of whoredoms hath caused them to err, and they have gone a whoring from under their God.

Hosea 5:4
They will not frame their doings to turn unto their God: for the spirit of whoredoms is in the midst of them, and they have not known the LORD.

To understand Israel's blindness is to observe what is 'in them.' No outside look is going to be able to see the above.

Scriptures tell us 'why' they were blinded. Why they could not see. Why they were judged.

It is written on all counts, plain as THE DAY. Yet the causes remain unseen.

To see Israel requires sight inside their box, provided courteously by text.

In the end, they will ALL be saved regardless, AS it is written.

The exact same issues they had and have are the identical issues that 'christians' struggle to see, that the above scriptures point to, clearly.

s

 

[jasoncran]

my major beef with futurism that is on isreal is the idea that they are used instead of the church in this millenium with a return not even to the law but works only( a totally fail on what the lord did then).

 

[Sinthesis]

my major beef with futurism that is on isreal is the idea that they are used instead of the church in this millenium with a return not even to the law but works only( a totally fail on what the lord did then).

Yeah, surely it can't be in God's plan for Israel to return to her vomit for a thousand years.

Pro 26:11 - As a dog returneth to his vomit, [so] a fool returneth to his folly.

 

[jasoncran]

Yeah, surely it can't be in God's plan for Israel to return to her vomit for a thousand years.
Proverbs 26:11

i agree and many futurist just overlook that part. i did because i never really questioned it until hitch and reba and others challenged me.

 

[Hitch]

Yeah, surely it can't be in God's plan for Israel to return to her vomit for a thousand years.
Proverbs 26:11

Did you know that DTS actually taught that the church would spend that time in the sky in the 'New Jerusalem' hovering over the earth while the Jews resumed Temple rites and Christ commuted back and forth?

 

[jasoncran]

Did you know that DTS actually taught that the church would spend that time in the sky in the 'New Jerusalem' hovering over the earth while the Jews resumed Temple rites and Christ commuted back and forth?

why am i not shocked at that. post that so that i can use that.

 

[Sinthesis]

Did you know that DTS actually taught that the church would spend that time in the sky in the 'New Jerusalem' hovering over the earth while the Jews resumed Temple rites and Christ commuted back and forth?

Makes me want to puke.:verysick

 

[Hitch]

why am i not shocked at that. post that so that i can use that.

I'll see if I can find my 'Things To Come ' ,,,after the game

 

[jasoncran]

I'll see if I can find my 'Things To come ' ,,,after the game

lol. that is funny. i know you didnt mean it that way.

 

[Hitch]

Based on the premise that the city in the quote below is a literal , stone&mortar construction;


And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

2.The position of the city in R 21;10. It is generally agreed by interpreters of both views that the city seen in R 21;10 is suspended over the earth. On that basis it is argued that this could not be the millennial scene, for in the millennium the Lord returns to earth and his feet stand on the Mt of Olives(Z14;4). The lord it is argued will reign from earthly Jerusalem,not heavenly Jerusalem. Since this city is not on the earth it cannot be millennial fir it obviously is the center of the habitation of the Lamb.

In reply it may be argued that Christ will return to the earth at the second advent and He will reign on David's throne. the center of that authority is recognized to be earthly Jerusalem.That does not neccessitate the presence of Christ on that throne constantly. Christ may still reign on David's throne over David's kingdom ,but make the heavenly Jerusalem his place of residence ,with His Bride.


If it be objected by some that resurrected Israel has no part with the church but is destined to be on the earth and not in such an intimate relation to Christ and the church let us make several obvservations. (1)The first resurrection will include not only those in Christ (1Thes 4;16) but those that are Christ's (1Cor 15;23)(2) the desitny of the saved patriarchs and the just men made perfect(H 12;23) is said to be the New Jerusalem,which can only be entered by resurrection. (3)Old Testament saints are not to be subjected to the discipline of the King. (4)Ole Testament saints are to reign in the millennium(R20;3) even as the church. (R 3;21) and theymay reign from the heavenly city inasmuch as it is seen to be in relation to the earth and in the sphere of the earth, evn though not on the earth. . There would be no restriction on them to keep them from coming and going at will.
It would thus be concluded that during the millennium the heavenly city will be brought into a relation to the earth, although not settled on the earth. The resurrected saints of all ages in that city will be in their eternal state as possessed of their eternal blessings, even though such is not true of things on the earth itself.

The Lord promised to prepare a place for His own.At the rapture and resurrection of the church the saints of this age are after judgement and marriage, installed in that prepared place They are joined by the saints of the Old Testament at the time of their resurrection at the second advent.This dwelling place prepared for the bride, in which the Old testament saints find their place as servants (R22;3) is moved down into the air to remain over the land of Palestine during the millennium, during which time the saints exercise their right to reign. These saints are in their eternal state and the city enjoys its eternal glory. At the expiration of the millennial age during the renovation of the earth, the dwelling place is removed during the conflageration to find its place after the recreation as the connecting link between the new heavens and the new earth.


Quoted from 'Things To Come' Dwight Pentecost ,1958.

Distinguished Professor Emeritus of Bible Exposition, Adjunct Professor in Bible Exposition

B.A., Hampden-Sydney College, 1937; Th.M., Dallas Theological Seminary, 1941; Th.D., 1956.

Dr. Pentecost is recognized in every circle of evangelicalism for his 19 books, including Things to Come and The Words and Works of Jesus Christ. He pastored for 10 years before joining the Seminary faculty in 1955, and held a pastorate for 18 years during his faculty tenure. Today he remains in great demand as a conference speaker and Bible teacher who has ministered on six continents.
'

 

[Hammer]

In the end, they will ALL be saved regardless, AS it is written.

Let me get you right. You believe that everyone who converts to the religion taught by the Koran, err, I mean Talmud, will be Saved, in spite of dying in a state of explicit rejection of Christ?

 

[smaller]

Let me get you right. You believe that everyone who converts to the religion taught by the Koran, err, I mean Talmud, will be Saved, in spite of dying in a state of explicit rejection of Christ?

Cited Romans 11:25-30. You are welcome to deal with that, which has zero to do with the 'koran or muslims' but with blinded enemies of the Gospel of Israel who were blinded by God Himself.

Will say in advance that you will read it and NOT see regardless.

s

 

[Hammer]

Cited Romans 11:25-30. You are welcome to deal with that, which has zero to do with the 'koran or muslims' but with blinded enemies of the Gospel of Israel who were blinded by God Himself.

Will say in advance that you will read it and NOT see regardless.

s

Answer the question! Do you believe that people who call themselves Jews go to Heaven even though they reject Jesus?

 

[smaller]

Answer the question! Do you believe that people who call themselves Jews go to Heaven even though they reject Jesus?

Read Romans 11:25-30. What does it say? It takes zero belief to read the text and see plainly what it says.

But some remain blinded to that open fact, even though it is written, there to see for anyone.

What can I really say about that? If someone, anyone, reads it and doesn't see it there are reasons for same that.


25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

Imagine that? God actually loving and saving enemies of the Gospel, beloved and elect for the sakes of their fathers.

They were 'enemies' at the time Paul penned that and were made enemies. Made so by God's placement of the 'spirit of slumber' upon them.

Now, this fact has been put in this thread many times, and never once have you either seen it or addressed it, and that is because you also can NOT see it. Nothing I can say about that.

8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; ) unto this day.

Them and the spirit of slumber put upon them by God Himself,

which same is still placed on people to this day and shown by them reading and NOT seeing, hearing, yet NOT hearing.

s

 

[Hammer]

Read Romans 11:25-30. What does it say? It takes zero belief to read the text and see plainly what it says.

It doesn't say the anti-Christian nonsense that you think it says. Now, answer my simple question.