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It's all about Iraq, isn't it?

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Unlike what Quath suggests, here are the facts about the final commands from Muhammad/Allah about killing unbelievers:

STAGE FOUR: (AFTER CONQUERING MECCA) - OFFENSIVE WAR COMMANDED TO KILL THE PAGANS AND HUMBLE THE CHRISTIANS AND JEWS

http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/ji ... detail.htm

The Muslims continued to gain strength until the Meccans surrendered (in 630 AD). Most of the pagans of the city then became Muslims, so Muhammad and his followers were able to take over the city and cleanse the Ka’aba of some 360 idols resident there. At this point a new order was given to fit the new situation. By this time it was evident that the Jews would not accept Muhammad's claim to be a prophet, so the list of enemies now included all unbelievers - Jews and Christians as well as the pagans.

Now it is no longer just defensive fighting, but aggressive Jihad against all unbelievers is commanded. Since this is the final teaching of the Qur’an regarding Jihad, it is what is still in force today.

  • Sura 9:1-6 (dissolve all treaties with those pagans who haven't kept them, giving them four months notice. But keep your treaties with other idol worshipers till the end of the time agreed upon. In the future, make no more treaties with pagans, but kill those who do not receive Islam)

    Sura 9:11,12,14,15 (Pagans who accept Islam become brother Muslims. Fight those who break their agreements. Allah will punish them by your hands)

    Sura 9:16 (Allah knows those who strive with all they have, and don't make friends with or seek protection from non-Muslims)

    Sura 9:19-22 (Jihad is greater than other service, and of the highest rank in the sight of Allah)

    Sura 9:25,26 (fighting in the battle of Hunain Jan. 31, 630)

    Sura 9:28 (forbid the pagans to enter the Ka’aba)

    Sura 9:29-31 (fight against Jews and Christians until they are subdued, because Allah's curse is on them)

    Sura 9:38,39,41 (don't avoid fighting, but fight with whatever you have. Otherwise Allah will punish you with serious punishment)

    Sura 9:52,73 (Muslims can expect either martyrdom/paradise or victory in battle. Unbelievers can expect only punishment from Allah. Fight hard against unbelievers, whose abode is hell)

    Sura 9:81-96 (those who are able but don't want to fight are rejected of Allah. Those unable are forgiven)

    Sura 9:111 (Allah gives Paradise to those who give all they have to Allah and slay and/or are slain in Jihad)

    Sura 9:122 (not everyone should go to fight, and those who stay are equal with those who go)

    Sura 9:123 (fight the unbelievers surrounding you)

    Sura 5:36-38 (death or torture to those who oppose the Apostle)

    Sura 5:54 (don't befriend Jews or Christians because they are unjust and unreliable)
:o :o

http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/ji ... tm#Sura9v1

:)
 
Orthodox Christian said:
One can be biased for and against, and if bias is the litmus test for author reliability, we shall never again believe anything we ever read.
Click to expand...

Amen!
 
Gary said:
Muhammad did not WRITE the Quran... his followers wrote it down, mostly AFTER he died.
Click to expand...

You might have concluded that I am well aware of that from the fact that I must have mentioned at least several times that the man was an analfabetic.

All right, to acomodate you let me rephrase that then:
"Don't you find it at least "somewhat" exceptional that someone with such minimal intellectual baggage could have been responsible for something like the Quran?"

If a straightforward reply proves to be impossible .... I am into sharing. Not into debating.
 
Lonelyguide said:
Don't you find it at least "somewhat" exceptional that someone with such minimal intellectual baggage could have been responsible for something like the Quran?"

How about a straightfroward reply this time?

:)
Click to expand...
No, I do not find it "somewhat" exceptional at all. I do not find the Quran even remotely "exceptional"..... I find it startling with over 150 jihad verses!

:o

I am still waiting for you to produce at least ONE of these "exceptional" verses or one of the "countless areas of staggering spiritual depth and complexity."

:)

P.S. I think the word you were looking for is: analphabetic not analfabetic
http://dictionary.reference.com/search? ... alphabetic

:biggrin :biggrin
 
Oops. I edited roughly at the same time that you posted.

As for as producing anything along the lines that you mention, however, I trust that you won't mind if I decline. Its like I said ... I'm not into debating. I share and I rarely get into debates. Up to others what they wish to do with what I share.

:)

PS: thank you for your help with the English language, but English has many versions and is not my mother tongue. I try to get by though. I do, however, recollect having read the word with an f somewhere. I'll check it out.
 
Lonelyguide said:
As for as producing anything along the lines that you mention, however, I trust that you won't mind if I decline. Its like I said ... I'm not into debating. I share and I rarely get into debates. Up to others what they wish to do with what I share.
Click to expand...

Well obviously then you have no valid proof that the Quran has "countless areas of staggering spiritual depth and complexity."

Thanks for that "sharing"

It seems countless = zero!

:)
 
It has been quite a while since I have "freed" myself of the need to be right. And so you may conclude anything you wish and live happily ever after with each of your opinions.

How's that? :)
.
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Lonelyguide said:
It has been quite a while since I have "freed" myself of the need to be right. And so you may conclude anything you wish and live happily ever after with each of your opinions.

How's that?

:)
Click to expand...

I don't think you are right in your premises and your conclusion is therfore invalid. You have altered several of your posts in attempts to be "right".... why's that?

Anyway, nice discussion.

Thanks.

:)
 
Quid said:
You want him to prove his opinion?
Click to expand...

No. I want him to demonstrate that his premise is correct. He claimed: "It has been quite a while since I have "freed" myself of the need to be right."

His actions speak louder than his premise.

:)
 
Lonelyguide said:
It has been quite a while since I have "freed" myself of the need to be right. And so you may conclude anything you wish and live happily ever after with each of your opinions.

How's that? :)
.
.
.
Click to expand...
That must be quite liberating, actually. Can't say as I have arrived at that point, nope, but I see the merits, indeed.

Of course, on a forum, opinions will be challenged and proof requested/demanded, but hey, most of what is passed off as proof is just someone else's opinion dressed up as proof.
 
Orthodox Christian said:
That must be quite liberating, actually.
Click to expand...

It is. The quality of life improves considerably ... not just for oneself, but also for others ... when, after some initial "struggling", one is finally capable of saying "down boy" to the ego and when one can do so without regrets and with a smile. It isn't too short a road though, but after some vigilance it becomes easier and easier and one does sort of go "on autopilot" after a while.

Of course, one will always run into the occasional "control freak" (uncertain types who become even more uncertain when someone who knows what he knows, who knows who is and what he isn't enters into a thread) and at those times one will be "treated" to kinds of comportment which are reminiscent of what dogs in heat do when they "mistake" one's leg for another dog, but even those experiences eventually no longer pose a problem. One simply leaves the thread to those individuals for a while, goes on to more creative threads and that is it.

Orthodox Christian said:
Can't say as I have arrived at that point, nope, but I see the merits, indeed.
Click to expand...

I've read a number of your posts and I doubt that it would take you very long. :)

Orthodox Christian said:
Of course, on a forum, opinions will be challenged and proof requested/demanded
Click to expand...

Opinions are merely that ... opinions. And only the ego questions.

... and I'm not young enough to believe or pretend that I know everything.

Orthodox Christian said:
but hey, most of what is passed off as proof is just someone else's opinion dressed up as proof.
Click to expand...

Concur.
 
Lonelyguide said:
It has been quite a while since I have "freed" myself of the need to be right. And so you may conclude anything you wish and live happily ever after with each of your opinions.

How's that? :)
.
.
.
Click to expand...
Surely you do not walk around with the propensity to be wrong. It may not be a good thing to be freed from being right. You may walk around being wrong in all matter of things pertaining to life.
 
Hi Solo,

I try not to think in terms of "wrong" and "right," which is very easy once one realises how much is merely projection, perception and opinion.

... and in a post which I entered into a thread called "I SHALL NOT WANT" I have explained that (and why) I also try to be free of the ego's compulsive needing and wanting.
.
.
.
 
Hi Solo,

I try not to think in terms of "wrong" and "right," which is very easy once one realises how much is merely projection, perception and opinion.

... and in a post which I entered into a thread called "I SHALL NOT WANT" I have explained that (and why) I also try to be free of the ego's compulsive needing and wanting.
.
Click to expand...

Thats a good attitude to lower blood pressure and to improve overall health as well!!

You wont stand before the Great White Throne of "Gary" or "Quath" when it is all said and done so why prove anything to them?

The only person you need to convince of your good intentions and Love for Good is GOD!
 
Solo said:
Lonelyguide said:
It has been quite a while since I have "freed" myself of the need to be right. And so you may conclude anything you wish and live happily ever after with each of your opinions.

How's that? :)
.
.
.
Click to expand...
Surely you do not walk around with the propensity to be wrong. It may not be a good thing to be freed from being right. You may walk around being wrong in all matter of things pertaining to life.
Click to expand...

Good point. You may start believing that the Gospel of Thomas is "it".....

or why not the Gospel of Barnabas?

:)
 
Soma-Sight said:
Gary said:
...or why not the Gospel of Barnabas?
Click to expand...

Theres not really a Gospel of Barnabas....

Is their???? :tongue
Click to expand...

Yes there is a Gospel of Barnabas. (At least we are getting this thread back to the lies of Islam!)

http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/gi ... rnabas.htm

Like many, Muslims believe anything as long as it knocks Christianity!

They also use many of the so-called Bible contradictions that you use Soma-Sight.... also plagiarized from atheist sites!

:-?
 
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