Jeremiah 1:5

[JohnDB]

yes - great question

was anyone in heaven before the cross?

where did the righteous dead go before the cross? - i think abraham's bosom - Luke 16:24

elijah - enoch - moses - where were they before the cross? - these 3 were taken by God

everyone else it says rested with their fathers after death - where were they before the cross?

John said something in Revelation " Behold the Lamb that was slain before the foundations of the world were laid"

 

[Truthfrees]

John said something in Revelation " Behold the Lamb that was slain before the foundations of the world were laid"

is that in the same category as God knew us before the foundations of the world?

it can sure turn into a brain twister

imo God knew us before the foundation of the world - yet we were created when God formed us in the womb

likewise imo God planned to sacrifice Jesus before the foundation of the world - yet Jesus was crucified at the appointed time - John 2:4 - John 7:6

 

[Truthfrees]

I'd have to read it again but I'm pretty sure they didn't know him because He was in his glorified body. They recognized Him from his works and what He said, not by sight.

i see that also

imo the disciples were consciously aware - just not aware it was Jesus

before we are knit together in our mother's womb i don't believe we are conscious or aware of anything - i can't find any scripture to say we existed before the womb

 

[JohnDB]

i see that also

imo the disciples were consciously aware - just not aware it was Jesus

before we are knit together in our mother's womb i don't believe we are conscious or aware of anything - i can't find any scripture to say we existed before the womb

Now to really twist your biscuit...

Since we are to see Jesus/God "face to face" we will have to become timeless like God is.
This means that we:
Have been in Heaven
Are in Heaven
Will be in Heaven

So when we are told that Heaven is beyond comprehension and there are no words to describe it...it's an understatement.

 

[for_his_glory]

It's God who forms us as He formed Adam, but not in the womb like we are formed. Within the forming God knows us because He formed us sinless in the womb. Within the womb we have no breath until we are delivered out of the womb and God breathes breath into us that makes us a living soul, Ecc 12:7. God creates everyone of us for His good pleasure as He did Adam and Eve that we too are to take care of that which He created in the beginning. Like Adam we are created sinless, but soon after birth sin finds its way into each of us for that is its nature now through Adam that separates us from God. It repented God that He created man because of their sin and if not for Noah finding grace in God none of us would be here, Genesis 6:6-8.

In Jeremiah 1:5 God said before He formed Jeremiah He knew him as already being preordained to be a prophet to the nations through God's plan and purpose. Even before Jeremiah was formed God had already set him apart from others for His own purpose of ministering to others. Even up to the end of days those who God forms in the belly are created for His good pleasure, but from the womb many have turned away from Him by their own choice as they do not now Him. We don't get to choose what family we are born into, but we can choose to follow Him or reject Him. Many are born into bad families, but yet hear that of Christ calling them. Not everyone is preordained unto being a Pastor/Teacher, but to good works as we carry on the works Christ first started.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

From within the womb, there was action and distinction between Jacob and Easu. They wrestled from before their birth, and hat was a prophesy that they would become 2 nations always fighting. In their lives there was the same pattern of conflict that their future generations also dealt with.

But more then this, while they were in the womb. God said he loved Jacob, but hated Easu. God not only knows us but chooses us. If we ever come to God in our lives it's because of Him drawing us to Him and holding us there.

Jacob is an astonishing story to follow, because he was definitely a sinner. But God chose him before he was free from his sins.

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm almost positive that there's a scripture that says God wrote a book about each of us before the foundation of the world? Is that right?

In Rev 17:8 some names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world (emphasis on from the foundation, not before the foundation). These are they which have rejected God and His Son Christ Jesus as their names are written in the other books, Rev 20:12.

There is a book of life, which is also known as the Lamb's book of life being those of faith who have overcome by the blood of the Lamb, Rev 3:5; 17:8; 20:12; 21:27. Their names can not be blotted out as they have attained eternal life with the Father, Ephesians 4:30; John 6:39; 10:28, 29; Titus 3:5.

 

[Papa Zoom]

If we shaved all of Papa Zoom 's hair...head and beard and put new clothes on him we wouldn't recognize him either.

Ha! Beard is gone for the summer and I'm bald. :/ I don't even recognize myself!

 

[for_his_glory]

yes - great question

was anyone in heaven before the cross?

where did the righteous dead go before the cross? - i think abraham's bosom - Luke 16:24

elijah - enoch - moses - where were they before the cross? - these 3 were taken by God

everyone else it says rested with their fathers after death - where were they before the cross?

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

No one has ever ascended up to heaven as when this physical body dies the only thing that returns to God is the very breath He breathed into us making us a living soul, Ecc 12:7.

 

[Truthfrees]

Now to really twist your biscuit...

Since we are to see Jesus/God "face to face" we will have to become timeless like God is.
This means that we:
Have been in Heaven
Are in Heaven
Will be in Heaven

So when we are told that Heaven is beyond comprehension and there are no words to describe it...it's an understatement.

hmmm - yes this is getting more complicated to understand

i can see we are for sure eternal from the time we were created - because we were created in the image of God

angels were created too - and i think also eternal

are animals eternal? - i don't know - i think once they pass away they are gone - maybe - maybe not

Jesus and the Holy Spirit are eternal and always have been eternal because they are God - along with the Father - and they 3 created all that is created as per Genesis 1

back to angels and humans - before we were created did we exist? - i don't think we did

but now that angels and humans have been created i believe we are now eternal because God says we are eternal

wow - this is quite the topic

what is it that you see that causes you to think we were always eternal? - is it because we are now eternal? - and you believe eternal does not have a beginning?

Genesis says in the beginning God created - and we were one of those creations that had a beginning

now i can see that our breath came from God - Who is eternal - so when we receive His breath/His spark of His Life we begin to exist

i can see that the God part of us always was - but the rest of us - our spirit soul body has not always been - it had a created beginning

 

[Truthfrees]

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

No one has ever ascended up to heaven as when this physical body dies the only thing that returns to God is the very breath He breathed into us making us a living soul, Ecc 12:7.

amen -

and the glorified body Jesus has and we will receive imo is a spirit body because flesh and blood cannot inherit heaven - 1 Corinthians 15:50

 

[Truthfrees]

It's God who forms us as He formed Adam, but not in the womb like we are formed. Within the forming God knows us because He formed us sinless in the womb. Within the womb we have no breath until we are delivered out of the womb and God breathes breath into us that makes us a living soul, Ecc 12:7.

babies receive oxygen through the umbilical cord - and then when they are born they breathe air like us

so i see us as a living soul from conception - from the time God creates us in His image - with His spark of life making us a living spirit from the moment of conception

after conception and before birth we are kinda like fish - fish don't breath air - but they too take in oxygen as per: https://www.reference.com/science/fish-need-oxygen-2c942982d4a9788

 

[JohnDB]

hmmm - yes this is getting more complicated to understand

i can see we are for sure eternal from the time we were created - because we were created in the image of God

angels were created too - and i think also eternal

are animals eternal? - i don't know - i think once they pass away they are gone - maybe - maybe not

Jesus and the Holy Spirit are eternal and always have been eternal because they are God - along with the Father - and they 3 created all that is created as per Genesis 1

back to angels and humans - before we were created did we exist? - i don't think we did

but now that angels and humans have been created i believe we are now eternal because God says we are eternal

wow - this is quite the topic

what is it that you see that causes you to think we were always eternal? - is it because we are now eternal? - and you believe eternal does not have a beginning?

Genesis says in the beginning God created - and we were one of those creations that had a beginning

now i can see that our breath came from God - Who is eternal - so when we receive His breath/His spark of His Life we begin to exist

i can see that the God part of us always was - but the rest of us - our spirit soul body has not always been - it had a created beginning

Eternity goes both directions on a time line.
Since God is not restricted by the "box" of time we, as glorified beings, have to see Him "face to face" as promised. We will "stand before Him".
In order for this to be accomplished we too will have to go outside of time.
And where our brains can't comprehend this we can apprehend the concept. It's going to be beyond what I can Invision...and I can fantasize a lot.

Of course God is our creator and we'll have no ability to surpass God. But we will be closer than ever before. And I find that unfathomable.

 

[for_his_glory]

amen -

and the glorified body Jesus has and we will receive imo is a spirit body because flesh and blood cannot inherit heaven - 1 Corinthians 15:50

The brightness of His glory in 2 Thessalonians 2:8 means the brightness of Christ Jesus in all His glory like that of God in Exodus 33:18-23 and Revelation 21:23. At the last trumpet sounding, meaning during the time of the seventh trumpet, Jesus comes down from the third heaven where God sits on His throne to the first heaven meaning air that is the earth's atmosphere, Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalms 115:16; 148:4; 1Kings 8:27; Genesis 2:19; 7:3,23; Psalms 8:8, Lamentations 4:19. The dead in Christ will rise first and then we who are still alive who are in Christ will gather with them in the clouds as we are given our new glorified bodies as we know not what we will appear like, but that we will be like Christ in all His glory, 1Corinthians 15:52-58; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1John 3:2.

 

[for_his_glory]

babies receive oxygen through the umbilical cord - and then when they are born they breathe air like us

so i see us as a living soul from conception - from the time God creates us in His image - with His spark of life making us a living spirit from the moment of conception

after conception and before birth we are kinda like fish - fish don't breath air - but they too take in oxygen as per: https://www.reference.com/science/fish-need-oxygen-2c942982d4a9788

Yes, babies do receive oxygen this way while being in the womb as it being the blood of the mother that produces this oxygen and once born they receive the very breath of God that makes them a living soul once the umbilical cord is cut.

 

[WIP]

Ha! Beard is gone for the summer and I'm bald. :/ I don't even recognize myself!

I've been there.

One summer day a few years ago, the last time I grew out my beard, my brother-in-law and I were fishing and I happened to catch a nice crappie. We photographed me holding it and I released it. The following February I was at work and got an email from him with that photo attached. I remember looking at the photo and the first thing that came to my mind was, "Why did he send me this photo of an old guy holding a fish?"

Moments later I realized who the old guy was and burst out laughing. My colleagues asked what was so funny and I told them that I didn't recognize myself in a photo.

 

[Tessa]

love that WIP

 

[Edward]

checked out 75 scriptures from a link and found this:
GOD KNEW US BEFORE WOMB
Psalms 139:16
Ephesians 1:4-5
Revelation 13:8
Zechariah 12:1
GOD PREDESTINED US - BEFORE WOMB? - NOT CLEAR BUT PROBABLY
Ephesians 2:10
Romans 8:29
GOD KNEW US FROM THE WOMB - AND WE KNEW HIM FROM THE WOMB
Galatians 1:15
Isaiah 44:24
Isaiah 49:1
Psalms 22:10
Luke 1:15

can't find any scripture that we know God before the womb

Yeah you might be right. Or maybe He just didn't put it in our bible because we're on a need to know basis, and we didn't need to know?

 

[Edward]

I'd have to read it again but I'm pretty sure they didn't know him because He was in his glorified body. They recognized Him from his works and what He said, not by sight.

He wasn't in a glorified body, He appeared as a man.
They recognized Him through His works and not by sight like you say though.

 

[Edward]

This is an amazing thread. God is all knowing, so I can see how He knew us before we were born. He knew everything we would do, and so perhaps this is where predestiny comes into it.

Psalm 139:16
Convinces me.

That is convincing! ...when as yet there were none of them...