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Jesus as a Bodhisattva

A

AHIMSA

Guest
#1
"Spiritual Awakening is frequently described as a journey to the top of a mountain. We leave behind our worldliness and slowly make our way to the top. At peak we have transcended all pain. The only problem with this metaphor is that we leave all others behind. Their suffering continues, un relieved by our personal escape.
On the journey of the warrior Bodhisattva, the path goes down, not up, as if the mountain pointed towards the earth instead of the sky. Instead of transcending the suffering of all creatures, we move towards turbulence and doubt. We explore the reality of unpredictability, of insecurity and pain. At our own pace, without speed or agression, we move down and down. With us move millions of others; our companions in awakening from fear." - Pema Chodron (Comfortable with Uncertainty)

In the Mayahanna tradtion of Buddhism, there is such a thing as a Bodhisattva. That is, a person who has liberated themselves from the cycle of suffering and has come to the realization of deep spiritual insight. But they refuse to stop there and instead, turn to the suffering of others and vow and to take upon that burden in a life of unlimited compassion.
Though they may have touched the highest peaks of enlightenment, their journey has not finished until they have descended it, returned to the world and lifted others up from their knees so that they too may know the freedom that comes with true insight.

Is Jesus not then a Bodhisattva? He was a man who, within the rivers of the Jordan came to a great and tremendous spiritual realization; that of his sonship. Jesus withdrew to the desert where he further wrestled with this revelation, where he was tempted. For forty days he struggled...but he could not contain this truth. He returned to the world, so that he too may liberate others from their suffering and sin. Drawing on his infinite compassion, his words and actions allowed others to taste the freedom that comes with knowing God, and continues to do so today. Though he no longer lives in body, his Spirit continues to live as a compassionate and eye-opening force, as the very pulse of true life. As a true Bodhisattva, he takes upon himself, our yoke, so that we may finally be free.
 
B

bibleberean

Guest
#2
"In Tibetan Buddhism, a Bodhisattva is anyone who is motivated by compassion and seeks enlightenment not only for him/herself but also for everyone..."

Jesus said that He was the light and that salvation came through Him and Him alone.

Jesus said that He was the Son of God and His apostles point us to Him as found in the bible.

The beliefs of Buddhism and the truths of Jesus are not compatible.

Buddhists believe in reincarnation and that a person is set free by death and not rebirth.

In Buddhism a person must work out His Karma.

Christ said that He had the power to set us free from sin by taking the worlds sins upon Himself.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 1:4-5 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Jesus knew who He was and why He was here. He came to point men to Himself not to point men to themselves.

Jesus was not a Bodhisattva in the Buddhist sense.

The Dalai Lama believes he is a reincarnated being and that Jesus was just a "good man".

The Dalai Lama does not even believe there is a God.

"Buddhism does not accept a theory of God, or a creator. According to Buddhism, one's own actions are the creator, ultimately."

Source Wikipedia on line.

This is not what the bible teaches.

John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
 
S

Soma-Sight

Guest
#3
BB,

You know very little about Eastern Philosophy yet you judge Ahimsa's post.......

I wonder if you have ever read any bona fide Buddhist lit or just Wikipedia blogs..... :sad

Have you ever even set foot in a temple????????
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2003
Messages
13,677
Gender
Male
#4
The problem is that there was no "personal escape" with Jesus, he was not an enlightened person who realized the divine within and managed to escape samsara.

Jesus always has been God Incarnate and that is the only reason why he was free from sin which made possible the path of salvation and freedom through his death and resurrection.

If one wants to claim that Jesus was a Bodhisattva, then he was, is, and will be the only Bodhisattva to ever be.
 
B

bibleberean

Guest
#5
Soma-Sight said:
BB,

You know very little about Eastern Philosophy yet you judge Ahimsa's post.......

I wonder if you have ever read any bona fide Buddhist lit or just Wikipedia blogs..... :sad

Have you ever even set foot in a temple????????
I know what Jesus taught and really don't care what you think. :smt102
 
S

Soma-Sight

Guest
#6
know what Jesus taught and really don't care what you think.
If there is a more sarcastic Emoticons than that shrugging dude you show I have yet to see it...

Good work finding that one...... :o
 
S

Soma-Sight

Guest
#7
"Spiritual Awakening is frequently described as a journey to the top of a mountain.
Excellent correlation....

Its gets harder as you get higher but more rewarding with the increased view of the world and the purty of the air......

I have even herd that spiritual visions and epiphanies are more likely to happen at high elevations....

Think Moses here....

 
B

bibleberean

Guest
#8
If the Dalai Lama didn't say this then prove it.

"Buddhism does not accept a theory of God, or a creator. According to Buddhism, one's own actions are the creator, ultimately."

Source Wikipedia on line.

I have listened to the Dalai Lama speak on television and have debated real Buddhists.

Buddhism and Christianity are not compatible.

Christ teaches salvation in Him. Buddhism does not teach salvation in Christ but freedom through rebirth in working out one's own karma.

The fact is that the bible calls people who do not believe in God fools.

The Dalai Lama fits that category.

That is not my opinion but the word of God through His faithful servants David and Paul.

Psalms 14:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Romans 1:19-21 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.


The Dalai Lama needs salvation through Jesus Christ.

The bible does not teach reincarnation but resurrection from the dead.

The aim of Buddhist practice is to end the suffering of cyclic existence, samsara (Pāli, Sanskrit), by awakening the practitioner to the realization of true reality, the achievement of liberation (nirvana). To achieve this, one should purify and train the mind and act according to the laws of karma: perform negative actions, and negative results will follow, and vice versa.Wikipedia.com Buddhism
Jesus teaches us that we are saved by grace through faith in Him.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

The thief on the cross had no time to work out his "karma".

While Buddhism does not deny the existence of supernatural beings (indeed, many are discussed in Buddhist scripture), it does not ascribe power for creation, salvation or judgment to them. Like humans, they are regarded as having the power to affect worldly events, and so some Buddhist schools associate with them via ritual. Wikipedia.com Buddhism
The bible teaches that salvation is through Jesus Christ not through the false god's of Buddhism.

The bible teaches salvation in Christ.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Buddhists associate with supernatural beings via ritual "that affect worldly events".


1 Corinthians 10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.

In short Jesus is not a Bodhisattva but God manifest in the flesh who died for our sins.
 
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bibleberean

Guest
#9
"...Buddha did not claim any divine status for himself, nor did he assert that he was inspired by a god or gods. A Buddha is anyone who has fully awakened to the true nature of existence, liberated from the cycle of birth, death and rebirth, has eradicated all negative qualities and developed all positive qualities, including omniscience. (Buddhas are not omnipotent, like the God of Christianity, Islam or Judaism.)"
Absolutely the antithesis of Christs teaching.

Man is incapable of "eradicating all negative qualities and then develop all positive qualities".

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

That my friends is the name of that tune.
 
L

Lonelyguide

Guest
#10
AHIMSA said:
A person who has liberated himself from the cycle of suffering and has come to the realization of deep spiritual insight. But they refuse to stop there and instead, turn to the suffering of others and vow and to take upon that burden in a life of unlimited compassion.
Since there is no contradistiction here, the word "but" can be left out. The thing is that none of us will be truly free as long as a single remaining member of the Sonship still gropes around in darkness.
 
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bibleberean

Guest
#11
Romans 11:8-10 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. :biggrin

The focus of a Christian is the Son. He who has the son is both free and in the light. Those who choose to dwell in darkness are condemned and it does not destroy the light. Which is Christ.

John 3:17-19 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
 
L

Lonelyguide

Guest
#12
bibleberean said:
Jesus said that He was the Son of God and His apostles point us to Him as found in the bible.
Each of us is a Son of God ... as is Jesus. He, however, much like an older brother, bridges the distance between us and God.

Jesus made that very clear when He stated that each of us has been given the power to do the same ... and more ... as He.

And to make it even clearer, He (as did e.g. Buddha) also said: "I am not your master!"

bibleberean said:
The beliefs of Buddhism and the truths of Jesus are not compatible.
If you had read the overwhelming evidence in Sri Yukteswar's "Holy Science" or had truly understood the essence of Jesus' teachings, you would never be saying this. God's Truth is unalterable but different ears hear different things and attempt to explain that same Truth in different words and with different human mental constructs.

bibleberean said:
Buddhists believe in reincarnation and that a person is set free by death and not rebirth.
The resurrection proves that death is an illusion; a powerful illusion perhaps but nonetheless an illusion. Whatever, however, we may perceive it to be and whichever label we may wish to affix to it, the resurrection proves that death can be conquered and that Spirit is eternal. Body cannot create spirit, but spirit can create body. Consequently, if spirit were to choose to return, it could.

bibleberean said:
In Buddhism a person must work out his karma.

Christ said that He had the power to set us free from sin by taking the worlds sins upon Himself.
Well put, BB. But what makes you conclude that one necessarily has to exclude the other?

Most of us are simply too busy listening to the loud and hurried little voices of the ego, to be able to hear the Silent Voice which constantly tries to help us.

bibleberean said:
Jesus knew who He was and why He was here. He came to point men to Himself not to point men to themselves.
Really? And what of statements such as "I am not your master" or "the Kingdom of God is within." ? No, Jesus lived by example and pointed to the law and to his teachings rather than to Himself.

bibleberean said:
The Dalai Lama believes he is a reincarnated being and that Jesus was just a "good man".
I am convinced that the Dalai Lama sees a good man in every man and I would be very surprised if as considerate a person such as he were to use words which might offend others. I would advise you not to take your source too seriously, BB.

Incidentally ... when asked to explain his philosophy in one word, the Dalai Lama answered ... "kindness;" a rather Christ-like reply, wouldn't you say?

Seriously, BB ... for me labels are for pots and not for people, but if I would absolutely have to affix a label to where I stand spiritually, I guess that I would have to call myself a follower of Jesus. I do, however, also find a lot of truth in Buddhism .... especially in the many areas where Buddhism and the teachings of Jesus do converge. And believe me ... there is a lot of that. I also believe that the quality of contemporary Christianity would improve immensely and would come a lot closer to what Jesus intended for us, if so-called Christians would have obtained a better, deeper and more spiritual understanding of Jesus' teachings through an understanding of some of the basic truths of Buddhism.

I am truly grateful that my God is "somewhat" more complete than the limited black-and-white image that some appear to have of Him.
 
B

bibleberean

Guest
#13
John 8:42-44 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
 
B

bibleberean

Guest
#14
2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
 
L

Lonelyguide

Guest
#15
bibleberean said:
John 8:42-44 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me:
Precisely. If God is indeed our Father, we can but love Jesus ..... and our other brothers!

bibleberean said:
for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
We all come from God. The difference between Jesus and most of us, however, is that Jesus came exclusively from God (He had ... as in Luke 14:33 ... given up everything that was from Him and therefore His Will had become one with God's Will) and that many of us still need to relinquish "quite a bit" of nonsense (such as inappropriately quoting misunderstood scripture) before they can say the same.
 
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bibleberean

Guest
#16
"The resurrection proves that death is an illusion; a powerful illusion perhaps but nonetheless an illusion. Whatever, however, we may perceive it to be and whichever label we may wish to affix to it, the resurrection proves that death can be conquered and that Spirit is eternal. Body cannot create spirit, but spirit can create body. Consequently, if spirit were to choose to return, it could."
Death is very real.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

If you were a follower of Jesus you would know that the wages of sin is death.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Attention:

Rule 8 - No Promotion of Other Religions:


You will not post any messages; links, images or photos that promote a religion or belief other than mainstream Christianity (atheism is considered a "belief" for the purposes of this rule). Debates of these doctrines are fine, as long as the beliefs are not actively promoted. This is a Christian Forums as the name suggest. If you cannot abide with this, please do not use our site.

John 14: 6. Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
You can ask questions and compare the teachings of Christianity but no promotion of other religions such as Buddhism, Islam, Bahai, Wiccan, etc. will be actively promoted.
 
B

bibleberean

Guest
#17
Those that believe on Jesus become "son's of God".

Which means that before they believed they were not "sons".

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Children of wrath are not the sons of God.

Ephesians 2:2-3 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
 
L

Lonelyguide

Guest
#18
bibleberean said:
"The resurrection proves that death is an illusion; a powerful illusion perhaps but nonetheless an illusion. Whatever, however, we may perceive it to be and whichever label we may wish to affix to it, the resurrection proves that death can be conquered and that Spirit is eternal. Body cannot create spirit, but spirit can create body. Consequently, if spirit were to choose to return, it could."
Death is very real.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

If you were a follower of Jesus you would know that the wages of sin is death.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Attention:

[quote:eb261]Rule 8 - No Promotion of Other Religions:


You will not post any messages; links, images or photos that promote a religion or belief other than mainstream Christianity (atheism is considered a "belief" for the purposes of this rule). Debates of these doctrines are fine, as long as the beliefs are not actively promoted. This is a Christian Forums as the name suggest. If you cannot abide with this, please do not use our site.

John 14: 6. Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
You can ask questions and compare the teachings of Christianity but no promotion of other religions such as Buddhism, Islam, Bahai, Wiccan, etc. will be actively promoted.[/quote:eb261]

Death is only real to those who identify with the carnal (the body) rather than with Spirit and who place their beliefs in this world rather than in the Kingdom of God.

And I have no time for discussions like these. Proverbs 23:9.
 
L

Lonelyguide

Guest
#19
bibleberean said:
really don't care what you think
Is this what one would call a Christian way of treating a brother as described in Mark 12:30-31?

Hmmmm .... you, BB, are ready on every occasion to beat anyone around the head with (often misunderstood) holy scripture, but you yourself do not abide by holy scripture which could not possibly be misunderstood and in doing so you go against commandments of which Jesus Himself even says that there are none of greater importance.

You, who so much likes to throw the book of rules at others .... what places you above God's Law?
 
B

bibleberean

Guest
#20
Lonelyguide said:
bibleberean said:
really don't care what you think
Is this what one would call a Christian way of treating a brother as described in Mark 12:30,31?
Lonelyguide,

You deliberately misquoted me out of context.

This is the full quote...

I know what Jesus taught and really don't care what you think.

I only care what God thinks...

What saith the scriptures?
Death is very real...

That is why Jesus came to save us from sin and death.

1 Corinthians 15:53-56 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

1 Corinthians 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Buddhism does not agree with the bible. I don't care what the Dalai Lama thinks either.

Jesus is not a Buddhist and the Dalai Lama does not believe in God.