Jesus had a wife

[OzSpen]

i never understood why it would be such a big deal if Jesus was married. why do so many act as if this concept would undo all of Christendom? what difference would it make?

jaybird,

Could this be a significant issue in this discussion of whether Jesus was married or not? This could be one of the differences it would make, asTim Chaffey, in his article, 'Was Jesus married?' has written:

While marriage in and of itself is not wrong—it was instituted by God in the beginning as a “very good” human relationship (Genesis 1:26–31)—the notion that Jesus, the Son of God, could have married raises numerous theological concerns. The Bible teaches that in marriage, husband and wife become “one flesh” (Genesis 2:24).

So if Jesus, who knew no sin, married a sinful woman, would not He and His wife become one flesh as well? Think of some possible implications of such a scenario. By becoming “one flesh” with a sinner, would Jesus become tainted by sin? What type of nature would children from this union have? Jesus was sinless and had both a divine and human nature, yet His supposed wife would have had a sinful nature.

So would children of such a union be born without sin or with sin? As physical children of the Son of God, what type of relationship would they have to God the Father? The whole idea of Jesus being married introduces a vast array of confused theology.

I find this to be a valuable insight of what would happen if the perfect God-man, Jesus, married a sinful human being and had children with her.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

i dont think He was married. but had He been married i would think nothing of it. what makes little sense is when so many get into an outrage over the subject. was He not sent to be an example to us, to be like one of us, what better way to demonstrate that than to be married like one of us.

• How can the God-man be an example to human beings when there is zero possibility we can ever achieve Godhood?
  
• He was perfect and sinless. We are not and can never be.
  
• Who are the ones getting into 'an outrage' over the subject of Jesus being married?
• As I've tried to demonstrate in #41, it is a big deal if the sinless God-man conceives a child with his sinful wife in marriage. I'm speaking of sinful in the sense of having original sin and committing acts of sin in her life. Joining the God-man with a sinful human being in the sexual act has enormous ramifications spiritually and theologically.

Oz

 

[JohnDB]

The Church is the bride of Christ...

His ONLY love interest.

Anything else would have made Jesus something other than what He is.

 

[jaybird]

• How can the God-man be an example to human beings when there is zero possibility we can ever achieve Godhood?
  
• He was perfect and sinless. We are not and can never be.
  
• Who are the ones getting into 'an outrage' over the subject of Jesus being married?
• As I've tried to demonstrate in #41, it is a big deal if the sinless God-man conceives a child with his sinful wife in marriage. I'm speaking of sinful in the sense of having original sin and committing acts of sin in her life. Joining the God-man with a sinful human being in the sexual act has enormous ramifications spiritually and theologically.

Oz

we are not god men so there is no way to follow that example.
i thought all things were possible in Christ.
i thought Jesus said until we become like the children we cant enter the kingdom, were those kids sinful? if not how did they become sinless?

 

[Jim Parker]

i never understood why it would be such a big deal if Jesus was married. why do so many act as if this concept would undo all of Christendom? what difference would it make?

Because it would be a complete refutation of scripture.
Jesus getting married is an old cock-and-bull story which comes around periodically because there are always suckers who will pay hard-earned money to buy the book or send donations.

 

[OzSpen]

The Church is the bride of Christ...

His ONLY love interest.

Anything else would have made Jesus something other than what He is.

Jesus has a love interest beyond that of believers (the bride of Christ). Jesus has a love interest in sinners, as illustrated by this example from the Gospels:

27 After this, Jesus went out and saw a tax collector by the name of Levi sitting at his tax booth. “Follow me,” Jesus said to him, 28 and Levi got up, left everything and followed him.

29 Then Levi held a great banquet for Jesus at his house, and a large crowd of tax collectors and others were eating with them. 30 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law who belonged to their sect complained to his disciples, “Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?”

31 Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” (Luke 5:27-32 NIV, emphasis added)

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

i thought Jesus said until we become like the children we cant enter the kingdom, were those kids sinful? if not how did they become sinless?

'How did they become sinless?' Nowhere have I suggested that.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Didn't you read the content of the links I gave? Your response is a red herring because you didn't address the matter of what Karen King believes about Jesus' wife and why she believes it. You mentioned not a word about the content of Dr Mohler's critique of this perspectve.

Thus making your response a red herring.
Oz

There is absolutely no need to read trash articles. The human brain that God gave to, at least, most of us is much like my Lenovo Think Pad, Good programming in, good output! Trashy in, trash out! God was not and God is not married!

 

[OzSpen]

There is absolutely no need to read trash articles. The human brain that God gave to, at least, most of us is much like my Lenovo Think Pad, Good programming in, good output! Trashy in, trash out! God was not and God is not married!

Bill,

So now you give me an ad hominem logical fallacy of a response.

I wouldn't be referring you to links to articles if I did not think that Christians need to know what is happening in their world. While I disagree with Karen King's conclusions, she is raising issues that Christians need to investigate for their authenticity.

Dr Albert Mohler's response to Karen King's article is an excellent example of evangelical scholarship (written in everyday language) that refutes her view that Jesus had a wife.

'Trash articles' is a pejorative term that is your way of expressing fallacious reasoning - an ad hominem fallacy.

Oz

 

[jaybird]

'How did they become sinless?' Nowhere have I suggested that.

it is a big deal if the sinless God-man conceives a child with his sinful wife in marriage

 

[OzSpen]

jaybird,

It was you who stated in #44: 'i thought Jesus said until we become like the children we cant enter the kingdom, were those kids sinful? if not how did they become sinless?'

I was responding to that statement in #47: ''How did they become sinless?' Nowhere have I suggested that.'

It is you who is responding with a straw man fallacy about what I said and believe. Do you understand what you do when you create a straw man fallacy in your reply to me?

Oz

 

[jaybird]

jaybird,

It was you who stated in #44: 'i thought Jesus said until we become like the children we cant enter the kingdom, were those kids sinful? if not how did they become sinless?'

I was responding to that statement in #47: ''How did they become sinless?' Nowhere have I suggested that.'

It is you who is responding with a straw man fallacy about what I said and believe. Do you understand what you do when you create a straw man fallacy in your reply to me?

Oz

im lost.
the children Jesus speaks of, sinful or sinless?

 

[th1b.taylor]

Bill,

So now you give me an ad hominem logical fallacy of a response.

I wouldn't be referring you to links to articles if I did not think that Christians need to know what is happening in their world. While I disagree with Karen King's conclusions, she is raising issues that Christians need to investigate for their authenticity.

Dr Albert Mohler's response to Karen King's article is an excellent example of evangelical scholarship (written in everyday language) that refutes her view that Jesus had a wife.

'Trash articles' is a pejorative term that is your way of expressing fallacious reasoning - an ad hominem fallacy.

Oz

Iz gave you advice based on scripture. I live as close as I can manage to the words and the principals that our LORD left us to live by. If you choose to disobey, will you have standing in Heaven or if you disobey, and with forethought, did you ever have standing in Heaven? I, a mere man, just like you, have no idea but I will serve the LORD my God as closely as I can and scripture teaches us to dwell upon good things and this is evil, so nope, it is not going to be read by anyone in my house.

 

[OzSpen]

Iz gave you advice based on scripture. I live as close as I can manage to the words and the principals that our LORD left us to live by. If you choose to disobey, will you have standing in Heaven or if you disobey, and with forethought, did you ever have standing in Heaven? I, a mere man, just like you, have no idea but I will serve the LORD my God as closely as I can and scripture teaches us to dwell upon good things and this is evil, so nope, it is not going to be read by anyone in my house.

May you have good luck in your journey!

 

[OzSpen]

im lost.
the children Jesus speaks of, sinful or sinless?

Perhaps this is related to building a false view of my position. That's called building a straw man argument against me. All it leads to is talking past each other because it is erroneous reasoning.

 

[jaybird]

Perhaps this is related to building a false view of my position. That's called building a straw man argument against me. All it leads to is talking past each other because it is erroneous reasoning.

it has to do with your very first response but i have no idea how to approach it being as you keep dodging the question.

the children Jesus speaks of, sinful or sinless? (3rd time)

 

[OzSpen]

it has to do with your very first response but i have no idea how to approach it being as you keep dodging the question.

the children Jesus speaks of, sinful or sinless? (3rd time)

All human beings are sinners from birth, including children: 'Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned' (Rom 5:12 NIV).

Children are not born sinless. This is the teaching on original sin, which I support. See: What is original sin?

Oz

 

[jaybird]

All human beings are sinners from birth, including children: 'Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned' (Rom 5:12 NIV).

Children are not born sinless. This is the teaching on original sin, which I support. See: What is original sin?
Oz

so Jesus could not have married being as a woman would have been full of sin, but its ok for Jesus to be born of a mother full of sin.
im not sure i agree. it has to do with those children. Jesus said until we become like them we cant entire heaven. i dont think He meant until we become full of sin like the children.

 

[OzSpen]

so Jesus could not have married being as a woman would have been full of sin, but its ok for Jesus to be born of a mother full of sin.
im not sure i agree. it has to do with those children. Jesus said until we become like them we cant entire heaven. i dont think He meant until we become full of sin like the children.

I suggest some further study for you. It takes the union of a sinful man with a sinful woman to produce a sinful child. We know this from Ps 51:5 (NLT), 'For I was born a sinner--yes, from the moment my mother conceived me'.

Jesus' virgin birth means that he bypassed the sinful conception process that would have made him a sinner.

Until we become like children, according to Jesus, has to do with entering the kingdom of God. Jesus said in Mark 10:15 (NLT): 'I tell you the truth, anyone who doesn't receive the Kingdom of God like a child will never enter it'. That's understanding kingdom principles according to the simplicity of a child.

It has zero to do with a child being sinless.

Oz

 

[jaybird]

I suggest some further study for you. It takes the union of a sinful man with a sinful woman to produce a sinful child. We know this from Ps 51:5 (NLT), 'For I was born a sinner--yes, from the moment my mother conceived me'.

ESV, KJV say born in iniquity not sin

Jesus' virgin birth means that he bypassed the sinful conception process that would have made him a sinner.

is there a scripture that says that?

Until we become like children, according to Jesus, has to do with entering the kingdom of God. Jesus said in Mark 10:15 (NLT): 'I tell you the truth, anyone who doesn't receive the Kingdom of God like a child will never enter it'. That's understanding kingdom principles according to the simplicity of a child.

It has zero to do with a child being sinless.

Oz

a child can understand these kingdom principles IMO because they have not conformed to this world and not full of sin. the kingdom belonging to those full of sin make little sense.