Bible Study JESUS OUR EXAMPLE and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

[LoveGodsWord]

You're saying that to not observe the Sabbath is a sin unto God. I don't think there is any evidence for such a claim. There is no evidence in the NT that we are to keep the Sabbath under the Mosaic Law. I know you believe otherwise but I can't find anywhere that such a teaching is in the historic church.

Maybe we should go one step at a time.

Who does God's WORD say God's ISRAEL is under the NEW COVENANT?

Do you mind if we start here first from the previous post before moving on to a different subject?

First lets' talk about who God's Israel are in the NEW COVENENT then let's move to what God's WORD defines as sin from your latest post.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Jim Parker]

Who does God's WORD say God's ISRAEL is under the NEW COVENANT?

Israel stays Israel.
So, the original Jewish believers kept the Law including the Sabbath.
But the Gentiles were told by the apostolic leadership in Jerusalem that they did not have to keep the Law or be circumcised. (Acts 15)
please stop

 

[JLB]

Amazing why do you demand I answer your questions yet you have not answered any of mine in this thread?

I am happy to answer your questions if you will answer mine?

Now my friend I asked you earlier and said we will have to agree to disagree as you are not adding anything to the discussion and refuse to reply to my posts with the scriptures and questions in them as I do for you.

I wish to follow the TOS in this bible study thread so let's agree to disagree. If your not happy and have nothing further to contribute please move on.

If you want to debate the topic in the debate section of the forum I will put out a challenge to you to come debate the topic with me but this is a bible study section so I ask you to respect the forum rules here.

Thanks for your consideration.

Respectfully

LGW

You have never answered my question to present scriptures from the New Testament that instruct the Church as to how to specifically observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant, in this Forum or the other.


If you have then present them right here and right now, or you have broken the the ninth commandment.


Please present the scriptures from the New Testament that instruct the Church to specifically observe the Sabbath.

Such as Paul instructing the Gentile believers to attend a synagogue.

Or Paul instructing Gentile believers not to travel a certain distance.


Here are mine that shows Paul, instructing the Gentile believers that no one is to judge them about Dabbaths or feast days or certain food laws that were from the law of Moses.


16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not[d] seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.

20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh. Colossians 2:16-23

And again


One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.
Romans 14:5-6


The pattern I have discovered with those who pass judgement upon others about keeping the Sabbath, is they lie, and harbor sin and won’t repent, thinking that esteeming Saturday over the other days of the week, will somehow make up for their other sins they won’t repent of.



Now with everyone watching I challenge to to show a New Testament scripture that instructs the Gentile believers, to observe a specific set of regulations concerning the Sabbath.

And please go ahead and quote it from the post you say you already did.






JLB

 

[JLB]

Maybe we should go one step at a time.

Who does God's WORD say God's ISRAEL is under the NEW COVENANT?

Do you mind if we start here first from the previous post before moving on to a different subject?

First lets' talk about who God's Israel are in the NEW COVENENT then let's move to what God's WORD defines as sin from your latest post.

What are your thoughts?

The Church is the Israel of God and began with Abraham.

Next question.


This thread is about the Sabbath.

Please keep the study about the Sabbath and Please present the scriptures from the New Testament that instruct the Church to specifically observe the Sabbath.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Well that is not true please see posts # 215 linked; post # 256 linked; post # 2 linked; Lots of others as well in Post # 59; Post # 61; Post # 64;

Here is your entire post from #215

Sorry friend we may need to agree to disagree on your interpretation of the scriptures

You cannot disregard the OLD Testament scriptures that are the foundation of the NEW Testament. The NEW Testament is built on the Old Testament and together they are the Word of God. Do you disagree? Please state your reason and your supporting scriptures.

The scriptures shown earlier are all from the NEW Testament in regards to God's Sabbath, with instruction that builds on the OLD Testament Scriptures that have already beren given (Exodus 20:8-11).

In the NEW Testament Jesus taught us that;

1. God's Sabbath was made for Mandkind and he is the LORD and the God of CREATION (Mark 2:27-28). This is NEW Testament scriopture not revealed in the OLD Testament but builds on the OLD Testament scriptures and is NEW information. Do you disagree? Please state your reason and your supporting scriptures.

2. Jesus also teaches us that it is indeed lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56) and we are not to be budened by man made teaching around God's Sabbath because the Sabbath was made for mankind to be a delight not a buden. This is NEW Testament scriopture not revealed in the OLD Testament but builds on the OLD Testament scriptures and is NEW information. Do you disagree? Please state your reason and your supporting scriptures.

3. Jesus is our example who kept the Sabbath as well as all those who followed him (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10) Do you disagree? Please state your reason and your supporting scriptures.

God's Sabbath is the Lord's Day and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW him who calls us.

.................

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

How is the verse “The Sabbath is made for man” specific instruction for the Church to observe the Sabbath?

We all agree that God made the Sabbath for man.

What I asked you for was specific instruction from God’s word in the New Testament, that teaches the Church how to observe the Sabbath.


Please point out for me the New Testament scriptures, in your post 215, that instructs the Church as to how to specifically observe the Sabbath, under the New Covenant.

Most of your post is instruction from the law of Moses.


Example:

If you believe the Church is to attend a synagogue on the Sabbath, then please quote some verses where Paul instructs the Churches to attend a synagogue on the Sabbath.

If the Church is commanded to attend a synagogue on the Sabbath, I know everyone here would want to obey that command from the Lord.

The Statement of Faith, in this Forum would have it clearly written out:

We believe that Christians are commanded to attend a synagogue on the Sabbath, because such and such, chapter and verse says so.

If you have some important things to add to the Church about the Sabbath, such as attending a synagogue, please quote the Chapter and verse from the New Testament, that teaches this.

If you have any other things about the Sabbath, that we need to know, such as limited travel, special foods, or anything else, please point us to those New Testament verses, so we can comply.



JLB

 

[Jim Parker]

You have never answered my question to present scriptures from the New Testament that instruct the Church as to how to specifically observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant, in this Forum or the other.
If you have then present them right here and right now, or you have broken the the ninth commandment.
Please present the scriptures from the New Testament that instruct the Church to specifically observe the Sabbath.
Such as Paul instructing the Gentile believers to attend a synagogue.
Or Paul instructing Gentile believers not to travel a certain distance.
Here are mine that shows Paul, instructing the Gentile believers that no one is to judge them about Dabbaths or feast days or certain food laws that were from the law of Moses.
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not[d] seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.
20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh. Colossians 2:16-23
And again
One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.
Romans 14:5-6
The pattern I have discovered with those who pass judgement upon others about keeping the Sabbath, is they lie, and harbor sin and won’t repent, thinking that esteeming Saturday over the other days of the week, will somehow make up for their other sins they won’t repent of.
Now with everyone watching I challenge to to show a New Testament scripture that instructs the Gentile believers, to observe a specific set of regulations concerning the Sabbath.
And please go ahead and quote it from the post you say you already did.

JLB

So,.... you're not holding your breath, right?

 

[JLB]

So,.... you're not holding your breath, right?

 

[JLB]

So,.... you're not holding your breath, right?

I would honestly like to study any scriptures from the New Testament that instruct or direct or command us how to observe the Sabbath under the guidelines of the New Covenant.

Paul was the main apostle, who was sent by Jesus Christ to preach, and teach as well as instruct the Gentiles in the way of God’s Kingdom.


I find nothing from him as to how the Church is to observe the Sabbath.


Nothing about commanding the Church to attend a synagogue, or restricting travel, or commands to not gather sticks to build a fire...

In order to have a Bible Study, we first have to have pertanent scriptures that pertain to this subject, in order to study and discuss.

There is no use in quoting Old Testament scriptures that pertain to the Sabbath since the law of Moses commanded death, to those who so much as gathered sticks to kindle a fire on the Sabbath.



JLB

 

[Jim Parker]

Paul was the main apostle, who was sent by Jesus Christ to preach, and teach as well as instruct the Gentiles in the way of God’s Kingdom. I find nothing from him as to how the Church is to observe the Sabbath.

That's because there is nothing written by Paul suggesting that the Gentiles are to keep the law. Quite the opposite if the case. He regularly refuted the teachings of those who wanted Gentile believers to keep the law and be circumcised and called them "dogs, evildoers" and "mutilators of the flesh." (Phil 3;2)

There is no use in quoting Old Testament scriptures that pertain to the Sabbath since the law of Moses commanded death, to those who so much as gathered sticks to kindle a fire on the Sabbath.

Exactly. If someone teaches that Gentile Christians must keep the Sabbath then they must also teach exactly HOW the are to keep the Sabbath. They must define the actions that entail "keeping the Sabbath" and those are all from the Law of Moses.
(I have previously posted them.)

A similar circumstance is the ever popular teaching about the tithe which is also part of the Law of Moses but nowhere taught in the New Testament to be a requirement for Gentile believers.

iakov the fool

 

[Papa Zoom]

Hold the phone. This is Bible Study and debating isn't supposed to happen. But I'm looking into moving this to a more appropriate forum since it's clearly not a Bible Study. And it's a debatable topic. If other mods agree with me, this is going to the Theology board. Debate must be allowed in this thread otherwise it's a one sided issue. But clearly we're not studying the Bible.

 

[Jim Parker]

This is Bible Study and debating isn't supposed to happen.

Please clarify the difference between discussing opposing views and debating.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Please clarify the difference between discussing opposing views and debating.

I'm not complaining about your post/posts. I don't actually know how this discussion qualifies as a Bible study and I want to make it easier to offering counter points of view. That's all. I think this is better put in Theology. We've had 18 pages of discussion and even though the Bible is being quoted, we're not studying anything. We're debating the place of the Sabbath in the NT Church. Theological perspective will influence our views IMO.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Please clarify the difference between discussing opposing views and debating.

And I don't think there's any difference really in discussing opposing views and debating. A true Bible study would focus I think on a portion of Scripture and explore the ideas therein.

 

[Jim Parker]

I want to make it easier to offering counter points of view. That's all.

AH!
Good idea!

 

[JLB]

Hold the phone. This is Bible Study and debating isn't supposed to happen. But I'm looking into moving this to a more appropriate forum since it's clearly not a Bible Study. And it's a debatable topic. If other mods agree with me, this is going to the Theology board. Debate must be allowed in this thread otherwise it's a one sided issue. But clearly we're not studying the Bible.

Agreed.

 

[reba]

I do not have the time to read this whole thing... Bible Study forum was never meant to be a lecture platform ... With out read the whole here i believe this thread has and was a lecture.

IF the members/staff wish it to be moved please be my guest..

as for now it is closed .. Another drug out over done lecture on this topic will not be acceptable in Bible Study for a while..

 

[Papa Zoom]

Personally I think 18 pages is enough of this topic. There's nothing left to be said IMO. I'm not inclined to reopen it but moving it is a possibility. However, what's the point? What's the end game? I keep asking myself that. TWITS is open if there's a concern or if someone wants to chat about it.