Judas Iscariot: Saved for a while.

[JohnDB]

OK...
Once again I think that it is prudent not to place too much emphasis on tense on Greek verbs. Tense (as we know it) was an almost afterthought when it came to verbs.
They were concerned more with the gender of a verb and it's cooresponding noun and it's mood than its tense.

Even Jesus uses an "incorrect" tense when speaking about the soldiers coming to arrest him. People have tried to change it to the"appropriate" tense but making the section inacurate at the same time.

Proof of this is John 1:12 where the passage is past tense in English...But actually is all three tenses in Greek.
To hinge any theology on the tense of Greek words is asking for error.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Do you believe that Abraham is part of God's Kingdom?



JLB

Of course. All OT saints are in the Kingdom of God. And they were saved the same as the Church. They looked forward to the Christ. They were righteous by matter of faith. But they are not the Church, they are Israel. God made specific promises to Israel that He did not make to the other nations, only that they would be blessed through Israel (Gen. 12:1-3) He also made certain and specific promises to the Church. The book of Acts and every Epistle is about the Church and it's calling out and PURPOSE (Rom. 8:28-30). There has already been a partial resurrection (Matt. 27:50-54) of OT saints, But the Church is the first fruits of the sons of God "Sons". The Church (Christ body) will rule with Christ and will judge with Christ (1 Cor. 6:1-4) If we suffer with Him ( 2 Tim. 2:11-13). Try to understand it this way. all priest were from the Tribe of Levi (Levitical priesthood), but not all Levites are priest. Instead they served in the Temple and Sanctuary.(Numbers 3:14-39). Compare with (Rev. 7:14-17) The OT saints are subjects of the Kingdom. The Church will be in the administration, with Christ as Son's of God and brothers of Christ. For Christ has made God our Father also through The Holy Spirit..

 

[JLB]

And Judas Iscariot was a devil during the time you claim he was saved. Judas was chosen to specifically fulfill what was written in Psalm 41.

John 6:70-71 (NKJV) Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.

So you believe Judas Iscariot was a demon spirit and not a man?

If you believe this, then I can see why you would think Judas never believed.

And Judas Iscariot was a devil during the time you claim he was saved. Judas was chosen to specifically fulfill what was written in Psalm 41.

John 6:70-71 (NKJV) Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve. ​

Psalm 41:7-9 All who hate me whisper together against me; Against me they devise my hurt, saying, “A wicked thing is poured out upon him, That when he lies down, he will not rise up again.” Even my close friend in whom I trusted, Who ate my bread, Has lifted up his heel against me. ​

Judas fullfilled all of the above even eating His bread. Which is why Jesus chose him. What he did not have, was to ever have the Holy Spirit indwelling that the others obtained at Pentecost.

The 11 became saved, not Judas.

Do you believe Abraham is in the kingdom of God, though he didn't have the infilling the other received at Pentecost?

Do you have the infilling of the Holy Spirit the others received at Pentecost?



Judas Iscariot was a disciple, and then an apostle and trusted friend of Jesus, then became a traitor.

Judas believed Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God.

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” John 6:68-69


The others who no longer believed, turned back from following Him.

Judas continued to believe and follow Him with the others, then became a traitor.

Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot who also became a traitor. Luke 6:16

Judas was a sheep; a disciple who heard His voice and followed Him for 3 1/2 years, then became a traitor.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Judas fullfilled all of the above even eating His bread. Which is why Jesus chose him. What he did not have, was to ever have the Holy Spirit indwelling that the others obtained at Pentecost.

Yes Judas fulfilled the word of God, and was a trusted friend who later became a traitor.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Of course. All OT saints are in the Kingdom of God. And they were saved the same as the Church. They looked forward to the Christ. They were righteous by matter of faith. But they are not the Church, they are Israel.

Replacement theology is a false teaching.

Christ Jesus is the Israel of God, and those who are in Christ, are of the Israel of God, being a citizen of God's kingdom.


11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. Ephesians 2:19-22


Abraham is in the kingdom of God, and is a member of the Church, just like you and I, as he is the founding member of the covenant we are grafted into in Christ.

The Lord Jesus made covenant with Abraham, and it is that covenant that has been "renewed" and is called the "New Covenant", of which we are a part of "in Christ".

7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. Galatians 3:7-9

again

26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. Galatians 3:26-29


The Church, or Ecclesia, or the called out holy nation, began with Abraham.



JLB

 

[Douglas Summers]

Replacement theology is a false teaching.

Yes, it is.

 

[MarkT]

Jesus was speaking to His twelve disciples when He made this statement - ... you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28

Just like He was speaking to his twelve disciples when He said - These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.
Matthew 10:5-8

Did Matthias go out to preach the Gospel, with the others when Jesus said this?

Your theory about who Jesus was speaking to is ridulous, and your method of interpretation is irresponsible.

Deciding to insert some else's name into scripture when Jesus was speaking directly to the twelve, is how heresy is conceived.

Judas was a disciple, and a trusted friend who BECAME a traitor.

Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot who also became a traitor. Luke 6:16

Just as Saul was a persecutor and BECAME an apostle of the Lord.


JLB

You're the one making the false claims. The truth is Judas was a devil. A devil is a person who has the devil's spirit. Still think Judas was headed for heaven before his unfortunate decision?

 

[JohnDB]

Shutting down due to continued snarking and finger wagging.