Bible Study Jude 1:5 explained

[Kidron]

-
Jude 1:5
I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not....
--------------------

So who is Jude referring to in this verse, is best understood by who he is NOT referring to, in the verse.

Jude is not talking to the born again who are eternally secure.
Jude is referring to these scriptures.

2nd Thessalonians 1:7-8

"""""""" This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:"""""""""

This is why Jude's verse is strictly speaking to those that "believe not"., as those are the ones who in 2nd Thess, have not ""obeyed the Gospel""".
These are Christ Rejectors who were never saved., as to "obey the Gospel" is to "do the work of God"...and to "do the work of God, is to BELIEVE ON THE ONE HE SENT" .... John 6:29

SO, all those verses are absolutely not directed at a child of God, tho many who want to create the false belief that you can lose your salvation will twist those verses into out of context pretzels trying to damn the born again into hell.
However, those verses are directed only towards the CHRIST REJECTOR, as its only the Christ Rejector who has committed the "unpardonable sin" of dying un-pardoned ........which IS to die having rejected CHRIST.

Jesus refers to these as "dying in your sins if you do not believe I AM HE (Messiah). John 8:24.
Only the unsaved, Christ Rejectors, who have never been BORN AGAIN are referred to in all these verses.
ALL those also who are alive when Jesus comes to take his vengeance ON THEM, as described in Thessalonians, are in for a severe situation, that will NEVER END.

When Jesus comes back, He is not coming back as a "lamb",.. He's coming back as a LION.
The 1st time down He showed up as a suffering servant heading for a cross, but the next time around He comes as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
Much Much different "Jesus vs 2.0" experience, when He comes again SOON to rule and reign.

 

[Nathan]

-
Jude 1:5
I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not....
--------------------

So who is Jude referring to in this verse, is best understood by who he is NOT referring to, in the verse.

Jude is not talking to the born again who are eternally secure.
Jude is referring to these scriptures.

2nd Thessalonians 1:7-8

"""""""" This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:"""""""""

This is why Jude's verse is strictly speaking to those that "believe not"., as those are the ones who in 2nd Thess, have not ""obeyed the Gospel""".
These are Christ Rejectors who were never saved., as to "obey the Gospel" is to "do the work of God"...and to "do the work of God, is to BELIEVE ON THE ONE HE SENT" .... John 6:29

SO, all those verses are absolutely not directed at a child of God, tho many who want to create the false belief that you can lose your salvation will twist those verses into out of context pretzels trying to damn the born again into hell.
However, those verses are directed only towards the CHRIST REJECTOR, as its only the Christ Rejector who has committed the "unpardonable sin" of dying un-pardoned ........which IS to die having rejected CHRIST.

Jesus refers to these as "dying in your sins if you do not believe I AM HE (Messiah). John 8:24.
Only the unsaved, Christ Rejectors, who have never been BORN AGAIN are referred to in all these verses.
ALL those also who are alive when Jesus comes to take his vengeance ON THEM, as described in Thessalonians, are in for a severe situation, that will NEVER END.

When Jesus comes back, He is not coming back as a "lamb",.. He's coming back as a LION.
The 1st time down He showed up as a suffering servant heading for a cross, but the next time around He comes as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
Much Much different "Jesus vs 2.0" experience, when He comes again SOON to rule and reign.

Jude is a relatively easy read I reckon. I think I have read it through about 10 times in the last little while. Its wise to consider it in its own context you think?

Jude is writing so the readers would 'contend' for the faith. Which is to "earnestly struggle" for it. In other words, work hard for it.

He is warning of people who have crept in, who want to pervert the grace of God into sensuality(fleshly things) and deny our only Master and Lord. So in other words, they were coming into the Church, telling others that grace is all you need - and it does not matter what you do in the flesh - and in so doing, they deny Christ as Lord.

Now, Jude was not just simply "unbelievers", he was talking about people who either were once believers, or acted like they were believers - Jude was writing to believers, warning of these people, and telling believers to earnestly struggle against them. There is a reason for that.

He went on to 'remind' them that God saved all out of the land of Egypt, but destroyed those who later did not believe. Now, there is no distinction between if they had believed at one time or not. The distinction, and the actuality of the situation, is that when the time came that they should believe - whether they had believed in the past or not - they didn't believe and so they were destroyed.

The faith we should contend for is a continual faith, not a one time belief. THAT is what Jude was telling them to contend for, THAT is what we should still contend for.

It does not matter if you said something at one point in time or not, if you are faithless - if you do not have Christ - then you are a person who is accounted with the ones that do not believe. These people are known by the rest of what Jude describes - which is all sensuality.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Nathan,
A great message but you are going to get a lot of blow back from the NSAS crowd.

 

[Nathan]

Nathan,
A great message but you are going to get a lot of blow back from the NSAS crowd.

Well, I suppose I'll just have to contend all the more then.

I think the book of Jude is a perfect letter. Short and to the point. Takes all of 2 mins to read it through?

 

[Chopper]

-
Jude 1:5
I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not....
--------------------

So who is Jude referring to in this verse, is best understood by who he is NOT referring to, in the verse.

Jude is not talking to the born again who are eternally secure.
Jude is referring to these scriptures.

2nd Thessalonians 1:7-8

"""""""" This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:"""""""""

This is why Jude's verse is strictly speaking to those that "believe not"., as those are the ones who in 2nd Thess, have not ""obeyed the Gospel""".
These are Christ Rejectors who were never saved., as to "obey the Gospel" is to "do the work of God"...and to "do the work of God, is to BELIEVE ON THE ONE HE SENT" .... John 6:29

SO, all those verses are absolutely not directed at a child of God, tho many who want to create the false belief that you can lose your salvation will twist those verses into out of context pretzels trying to damn the born again into hell.
However, those verses are directed only towards the CHRIST REJECTOR, as its only the Christ Rejector who has committed the "unpardonable sin" of dying un-pardoned ........which IS to die having rejected CHRIST.

Jesus refers to these as "dying in your sins if you do not believe I AM HE (Messiah). John 8:24.
Only the unsaved, Christ Rejectors, who have never been BORN AGAIN are referred to in all these verses.
ALL those also who are alive when Jesus comes to take his vengeance ON THEM, as described in Thessalonians, are in for a severe situation, that will NEVER END.

When Jesus comes back, He is not coming back as a "lamb",.. He's coming back as a LION.
The 1st time down He showed up as a suffering servant heading for a cross, but the next time around He comes as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
Much Much different "Jesus vs 2.0" experience, when He comes again SOON to rule and reign.

I liked what you posted Kidron. I also liked what my friend Nathan wrote as well. My comment is to re-enforce your proof Text....

-
Jude 1:5
I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not....

....

The proof that these folk who were delivered from Egypt were faulty in their continual allegiance to Jehovah, their Deliverer is, occasions where they defected to idol worship (golden calf) instead of the living God Who delivered them. Boy, I just never could understand such an insult to their Deliverer.

Thank you for your thought provoking thread.

 

[Nathan]

I liked what you posted Kidron. I also liked what my friend Nathan wrote as well. My comment is to re-enforce your proof Text....
....

The proof that these folk who were delivered from Egypt were faulty in their continual allegiance to Jehovah, their Deliverer is, occasions where they defected to idol worship (golden calf) instead of the living God Who delivered them. Boy, I just never could understand such an insult to their Deliverer.

Thank you for your thought provoking thread.

The problem with using this passage as proof text of them not being "ever saved"(or not being believers), is that what point was their belief not real?

There were multiple times the people were 'destroyed'. Each time there were some who were not, and those 'believed' - yet the finality of it all was when they came to the land and they all disbelieved except for the two. The interesting part is each time they disbelieved, they were in fact 'rejecting Christ'.

Jde 1:5
Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.

Some manuscripts use the word Lord, but the obvious is right before us. Jesus, the Lord, saved them out of the land of Egypt. He did not just 'provide' a means of belief - He actually saved them out of the land. That is, He actually brought them out of that land.

Bible study students will know that Egypt is representative of the sin nature we are born with. So in order to say that those people who were saved out of Egypt, were never believers or did not reject Christ, is kind of foolish.

Heb 11:24-27
By faith Moses, when he was grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, choosing rather to be mistreated with the people of God than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. He considered the reproach of Christ greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt, for he was looking to the reward. By faith he left Egypt, not being afraid of the anger of the king, for he endured as seeing him who is invisible.

Again, sometimes we look right past these passages. Moses, considered the reproach of Christ - even before Christ walked on the earth in the Man Jesus.

All too often we look at the OT passages as just 'good examples' of what not to do. Except we know that those things happened to them, and were written down, for us to understand and apply to this day and age. The OT is not just 'stories' that are good 'analogies', but do not represent anything for us - they are parallel examples that show us exactly what is going on with us today.

We must understand that the Passover happened before they came out of Egypt - before. We know Christ is that Passover Lamb.

Understanding all of this should not be about trying to prove eternal security, or trying to "damn the born again into hell". It should be about staying faithful, so that we can be fruitful.

Jde 1:20-23
But you, beloved, building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life. And have mercy on those who doubt; save others by snatching them out of the fire; to others show mercy with fear, hating even the garment stained by the flesh.

 

[Chopper]

I actually see several applications in the OP Text. Certainly the Christ is the major Subject of the Old Covenant, but the Nation of Israel were not aware of Jesus when they came out of Egypt. What they were aware of was their bellies and personal welfare. They grumbled all thru the wilderness. Their unbelief was not directed at Messiah but Moses and the "I AM". Ultimately it ends up that Messiah is rejected because He is always in the background as a Member of Elohim, the Trinity.

Moses and Jehovah (El) were the targets of Israel's unbelief. I associate the word "Saved" as belonging to the New Covenant. Sooo, after considering what Nathan had to say, I see a small flaw in Kidron's statements using New Covenant language dealing with Israel"s unbelief.

The main focus of Israel's unbelief IMO is idolatry....Exodus 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying,
20:2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
20:3 "You shall have no other gods before me.
20:4 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
20:5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,
20:6 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.

 

[ezrider]

Jude is not talking to the born again who are eternally secure.
Jude is referring to these scriptures.

2nd Thessalonians 1:7-8

Who is a born again? Just because someone reads the words born again in the scriptures and they claim they are born again, does it really make them born again? What must a believer do before he can be born again?

Jude is referring to these people as well:

Jude 1:8-10
Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

2 Peter 2:9-12
The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;


Now if I were to read the current events forum here and look at the majority of the posting their, do they not demonstrate the characteristics of unbelief. Do they not despise the government? Do they not speak evil of liberals? They claim to be born again Christians posting there, but do their fruits bear the same record?

 

[reba]

Lets keep this in Bible Study mode
Do not reply to this post in this thread..

 

[ezrider]

So in other words, they were coming into the Church, telling others that grace is all you need - and it does not matter what you do in the flesh - and in so doing, they deny Christ as Lord.

I disagree with that statement. They were not telling others that Grace is all you need, they were trying encourage others to use the Grace of God to fulfill there own fleshly lust.

But Grace is all that you need: it is that Grace that allows one to walk after the Spirit rather than the after flesh.

 

[Nathan]

I disagree with that statement. They were not telling others that Grace is all you need, they were trying encourage others to use the Grace of God to fulfill there own fleshly lust.

But Grace is all that you need: it is that Grace that allows one to walk after the Spirit rather than the after flesh.

I agree with you actually. That statement can be looked at in the wrong way. However, I did preface it(which you left out of the quote) with the fact they were turning grace into a reason for sensuality.

It does matter what we do in our flesh. Grace is all you need, but that grace is used to put to death the deeds of the flesh. The false teachers were coming in and telling them half truths - which are actually complete lies.

We cannot say "grace is all you need", and then deny what that grace is given to us for.

Romans 6:1 (ESV) 1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?

Romans 6:2 (ESV) 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?