What's new
  • This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn more.
  • Do not use Chrome Incognito when registering as it freezes the registration page.
  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses

judgement seat of Christ

Joined
Dec 4, 2010
Messages
15,452
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
#61
The time is of HARVEST. (Matt.13:27-30)
Remember:
The end of the WORLD is the HARVEST (not a WWIII) (Matt.13:39KJV)
Let us remember also
(1John 2:28KJV) And now, little children, abide in Him; that, when He shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.
I have a request. At 73 I am having such a problem reading the color of your text, evdn though it is Bolded. Your words appear to be wise but almost impossible to read.
 
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
2,951
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
#63
Theology ?

II Chronicles 7:14 KJV
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

IMHO this qualifies a people of God for temporal blessings. It does not guarantee eternal life.

It may qualify them for Abraham’s bosom, and for Christ to preach the gospel to them ( in captivity). If they receive the gospel they qualify for eternal life.

I do not put them in John the Baptist’s Repentance, because John said and believe in the one who comes after me.

You are in God’s area when you repent, but eternal life comes in belief in what Christ Jesus accomplished for people.

Some qualify as God’s chosen people that have not received the Son Jesus. Without Jesus you are still in your sins.

The judgement throne straightens all this out.


eddif
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
19,295
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
#64
.

Yes, I agree that His people are not judged with the world.

Here is the Judgement of His people.

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink?38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25:31-46

All His people will be gathered before His throne from every tribe, tongue and nation, for the Day of Judgement.

At the Bema Seat Judgement, His people will be judged according to their deeds, whereby we will hear one of two possible responses from our King:

  • Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

  • Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:


As anyone can indeed plainly see this Judgement of God's people will have everything to do with salvation.


JLB
 
Joined
Dec 1, 2017
Messages
716
Gender
Female
#65
The saved in Christ are eternally his and our salvation is not ever to be judged at any throne of the father. That's God's word. That's what matters. Not that teaching that hopes to mislead the saints by corrupting scripture in order to write a mans doctrine that Jesus Christ our Lord did not die for.
 
Joined
Dec 1, 2017
Messages
716
Gender
Female
#66
The time is of HARVEST. (Matt.13:27-30)
Remember:
The end of the WORLD is the HARVEST (not a WWIII) (Matt.13:39KJV)
Let us remember also
(1John 2:28KJV) And now, little children, abide in Him; that, when He shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.
Welcome. :)
I know that OSAS stands for Once Saved Always Saved.
I know that OSNAS stands for Once Saved Not Always Saved

Please tell me, what does OSEAS stand for?
 
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Messages
10,213
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
#67
The saved in Christ are eternally his and our salvation is not ever to be judged at any throne of the father. That's God's word.
The word "judgment" applies to positive as well as negative pronouncements.
Mat 25:34-36 IS the judgment of "the saved in Christ."
Then the King will say to those on His right hand, "Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me."
By those words, Jesus judges the righteous as worthy to inherit the kingdom. That is a judgement based on the evidence of their actions.

iakov the fool
 
Joined
Dec 1, 2017
Messages
716
Gender
Female
#68
The word "judgment" applies to positive as well as negative pronouncements.
Mat 25:34-36 IS the judgment of "the saved in Christ."
Then the King will say to those on His right hand, "Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me."
By those words, Jesus judges the righteous as worthy to inherit the kingdom. That is a judgement based on the evidence of their actions.

iakov the fool
Not the status of their salvation. As is being implied in the course of these discussions.
 
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Messages
10,213
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
#69
Do you think the Book of Life spoken of in Revelation 20, is that same book that is said to be opened before the white throne of judgment, wherein the deeds , good and bad, are listed as to pertaining to the saved in Christ?
While the Bema seat is where those in death and Hades are judged are the same one's who's names are not in the Book of Life, Rev. 20, .
No.
There is one and only one judgement which is described in detail at Mat 25: 31-46.
In that description of the judgment, which is given by Jesus, the acts (deeds, works, etc.) of both the righteous and the damned are examined and judgment is rendered according to whether they did good or evil.
It is exactly what Jesus said would happen at John 5:28-29:
“Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation."
Those who have done good have their names written in the Book of Life and they inherit the kingdom of heaven. Those who have done evil do not have their names in the book of life and end up in hell which is cast into the "lake of fire."

Anyway, that's how I see it.

iakov the fool
 
Joined
Dec 1, 2017
Messages
716
Gender
Female
#70
No.
There is one and only one judgement which is described in detail at Mat 25: 31-46.
In that description of the judgment, which is given by Jesus, the acts (deeds, works, etc.) of both the righteous and the damned are examined and judgment is rendered according to whether they did good or evil.
It is exactly what Jesus said would happen at John 5:28-29:
“Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation."
Those who have done good have their names written in the Book of Life and they inherit the kingdom of heaven. Those who have done evil do not have their names in the book of life and end up in hell which is cast into the "lake of fire."

Anyway, that's how I see it.

iakov the fool
Here is something that entered my thoughts just the other day when I was participating in this discussion Bear with me as I am trying to link various scriptures to arrive at what came to mind. I'm throwing this out there to get opinions, not offend or garner rebuke please.

Think of those scriptures in the old testament that refer to God as an all consuming fire.
Examples, Exodus 24:17,Isaiah 29:6, Isaiah 33:14, Ezekiel 22:31.

Now, recall David's lament concerning God and his inescapable being in the Song of David 139.8 If I go up to heaven, you are there.
If I make my bed in hell—there you are!

Then recall what scripture says about what happens to those who perish as fleshly beings. Ecclesiastes 12:7 then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

And then Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

And Jesus admonishment about searching the scriptures, John 5.

What if Sheol as in the Hebrew text is the abyss, death, the grave. While come the judgment the texts that refer to the attributes of Hell, an eternal fire, that scripture that says do not fear those that can kill the body , but that which can destroy the body and soul in Hell, are all speaking of those who are not in the body of Christ are actually going to have the soul given by God, recalling Genesis and the creation of man, God breathed into his nostrils and he became a living soul, return to God and experience eternal life in him. While those who are judged for their unrepentant sins are going to go to God that is the all consuming fire that devours that individual soul so that it exists no more anywhere.
 
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Messages
10,213
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
#71
What if Sheol as in the Hebrew text is the abyss, death, the grave. While come the judgment the texts that refer to the attributes of Hell, an eternal fire, that scripture that says do not fear those that can kill the body , but that which can destroy the body and soul in Hell, are all speaking of those who are not in the body of Christ are actually going to have the soul given by God, recalling Genesis and the creation of man, God breathed into his nostrils and he became a living soul, return to God and experience eternal life in him. While those who are judged for their unrepentant sins are going to go to God that is the all consuming fire that devours that individual soul so that it exists no more anywhere.
The words "what if" introduce speculation.
But we need not speculate since Jesus gave us very clear teaching about the judgment of the resurrected wicked.
Mat 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:"
and
John 5:28-29 "Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation."
In neither of those statements does Jesus suggest that the resurrected wicked will "exist no more anywhere."
And at Rev 14:9-11 the torment of those who "take the mark of the beast" is eternal.
"...the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

When Christ rose from the grave, He destroyed the power of death to permanently hold the bodies of mankind. That's why Paul quoted Isaiah 25:8 "Death is swallowed up in victory.” and Hosea 13:14 "O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?" in his teaching about the resurrection.

1Cor 15:51-57
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory.O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?” The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Therefore, the teaching of scripture is that the resurrection is a bodily (physical) resurrection and the experience of hell continues forever.


iakov the fool
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
19,295
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
#72
The saved in Christ are eternally his and our salvation is not ever to be judged at any throne of the father. That's God's word. That's what matters. Not that teaching that hopes to mislead the saints by corrupting scripture in order to write a mans doctrine that Jesus Christ our Lord did not die for.
Again, another post with no scripture.

Here are the words of Jesus Christ, about the Day of Judgement, when His people will stand before His throne, and be judged according to their deeds.

You have stated, along with others, that this Bema seat Judgment is for His people only, and not the Judgement of the world.

  • This is true.

You along with others have stated, that this Judgement has nothing to do with salvation.

  • This is not true.

Here are His words again, for you to examine, and consider what He has said.


At the Bema Seat Judgement, His people will be judged according to their deeds, whereby we will hear one of two possible responses from our King: Words of Christ in red.

  • Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

  • Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:


At this Bema seat Judgement, we see some of His people, inherit the kingdom of God, while others who are there, are sentenced into the everlasting fires of hell.


Paul described this Day in the same way:

5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:5-11

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

  • eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
  • but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath


JLB
 
Joined
Dec 1, 2017
Messages
716
Gender
Female
#73
Again, another post with no scripture.

Here are the words of Jesus Christ, about the Day of Judgement, when His people will stand before His throne, and be judged according to their deeds.

You have stated, along with others, that this Bema seat Judgment is for His people only, and not the Judgement of the world.

  • This is true.

You along with others have stated, that this Judgement has nothing to do with salvation.

  • This is not true.

Here are His words again, for you to examine, and consider what He has said.


At the Bema Seat Judgement, His people will be judged according to their deeds, whereby we will hear one of two possible responses from our King: Words of Christ in red.

  • Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

  • Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:


At this Bema seat Judgement, we see some of His people, inherit the kingdom of God, while others who are there, are sentenced into the everlasting fires of hell.


Paul described this Day in the same way:

5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:5-11

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

  • eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
  • but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

JLB
The scriptures have been posted.
Again, another post with no scripture.

Here are the words of Jesus Christ, about the Day of Judgement, when His people will stand before His throne, and be judged according to their deeds.

You have stated, along with others, that this Bema seat Judgment is for His people only, and not the Judgement of the world.

  • This is true.

You along with others have stated, that this Judgement has nothing to do with salvation.

  • This is not true.

Here are His words again, for you to examine, and consider what He has said.


At the Bema Seat Judgement, His people will be judged according to their deeds, whereby we will hear one of two possible responses from our King: Words of Christ in red.

  • Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

  • Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:


At this Bema seat Judgement, we see some of His people, inherit the kingdom of God, while others who are there, are sentenced into the everlasting fires of hell.


Paul described this Day in the same way:

5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:5-11

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

  • eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
  • but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

JLB
The scriptures have been posted. Repeatedly. Unfortunately, denial of their truth has been posted repeatedly also.

Bema Seat & Scriptures https://www.allaboutgod.com/bema-seat.htm


The Great White Throne - The Last Judgment
https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_146.cfm
 
Joined
Dec 1, 2017
Messages
716
Gender
Female
#74
The words "what if" introduce speculation.
But we need not speculate since Jesus gave us very clear teaching about the judgment of the resurrected wicked.
Mat 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:"
and
John 5:28-29 "Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation."
In neither of those statements does Jesus suggest that the resurrected wicked will "exist no more anywhere."
And at Rev 14:9-11 the torment of those who "take the mark of the beast" is eternal.
"...the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

When Christ rose from the grave, He destroyed the power of death to permanently hold the bodies of mankind. That's why Paul quoted Isaiah 25:8 "Death is swallowed up in victory.” and Hosea 13:14 "O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?" in his teaching about the resurrection.

1Cor 15:51-57
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory.O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?” The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Therefore, the teaching of scripture is that the resurrection is a bodily (physical) resurrection and the experience of hell continues forever.


iakov the fool
"What if", was prefaced with informing the reader I was asking a question so that the reader could consider my narrative and give constructive advice or share thoughtful replies.
 
Joined
Dec 1, 2017
Messages
716
Gender
Female
#75
Those who are alive in Christ are not judged as sinners before God after they die.

The Believer’s Freedom from Sin’s Domination Letter to the Romans Chapter 6

What shall we say then? Are we to remain in sin so that grace may increase? Absolutely not! How can we who died to sin still live in it?

Or do you not know that as many as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? Therefore we have been buried with him

through baptism into death, in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too may live a new life.

For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will certainly also be united in the likeness of his resurrection. We know

that our old man was crucified with him so that the body of sin would no longer dominate us, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. (For

someone who has died has been freed from sin.)

Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. We know that since Christ has been raised from the dead, he is never going

to die again; death no longer has mastery over him. For the death he died, he died to sin once for all, but the life he lives, he lives to God. So you

too consider yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its desires, and do not present your members to sin as instruments to be used

for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who are alive from the dead and your members to God as instruments to be used for

righteousness. For sin will have no mastery over you, because you are not under law but under grace.

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Absolutely not! Do you not know that if you present yourselves as

obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or obedience resulting in righteousness? But thanks be to God

that though you were slaves to sin, you obeyed from the heart that pattern of teaching you were entrusted to, and having been freed from sin,

you became enslaved to righteousness. (I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh.) For just as you once presented

your members as slaves to impurity and lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness

leading to sanctification. For when you were slaves of sin, you were free with regard to righteousness.

So what benefit did you then reap from those things that you are now ashamed of? For the end of those things is death. But now, freed from sin

and enslaved to God, you have your benefit leading to sanctification, and the end is eternal life. For the payoff of sin is death, but the gift of God

is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
19,295
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
#76
The scriptures have been posted.
Yes. I posted scripture that shows some people at the Judgement inherit the kingdom of God, while others at the Judgement are sentenced to hell.

The scriptures have been posted.

The scriptures have been posted. Repeatedly. Unfortunately, denial of their truth has been posted repeatedly also.

Bema Seat & Scriptures https://www.allaboutgod.com/bema-seat.htm


The Great White Throne - The Last Judgment
https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_146.cfm
Here is the scripture that shows us what happens on the Day of Judgement.

Some inherit eternal life, and are welcome into the kingdom of God, while others are sentenced to hell.


Here are His words again, for you to examine, and consider what He has said.


  • Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

  • Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:




Paul described this Day in the same way:

5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:5-11

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

  • eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
  • but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

JLB
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
19,295
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
#77
Those who are alive in Christ are not judged as sinners before God after they die.

The Believer’s Freedom from Sin’s Domination Letter to the Romans Chapter 6

What shall we say then? Are we to remain in sin so that grace may increase? Absolutely not! How can we who died to sin still live in it?

Or do you not know that as many as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? Therefore we have been buried with him

through baptism into death, in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too may live a new life.

For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will certainly also be united in the likeness of his resurrection. We know

that our old man was crucified with him so that the body of sin would no longer dominate us, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. (For

someone who has died has been freed from sin.)

Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. We know that since Christ has been raised from the dead, he is never going

to die again; death no longer has mastery over him. For the death he died, he died to sin once for all, but the life he lives, he lives to God. So you

too consider yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its desires, and do not present your members to sin as instruments to be used

for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who are alive from the dead and your members to God as instruments to be used for

righteousness. For sin will have no mastery over you, because you are not under law but under grace.

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Absolutely not! Do you not know that if you present yourselves as

obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or obedience resulting in righteousness? But thanks be to God

that though you were slaves to sin, you obeyed from the heart that pattern of teaching you were entrusted to, and having been freed from sin,

you became enslaved to righteousness. (I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh.) For just as you once presented

your members as slaves to impurity and lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness

leading to sanctification. For when you were slaves of sin, you were free with regard to righteousness.

So what benefit did you then reap from those things that you are now ashamed of? For the end of those things is death. But now, freed from sin

and enslaved to God, you have your benefit leading to sanctification, and the end is eternal life. For the payoff of sin is death, but the gift of God

is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
You left out this scripture from Romans 6 -

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23


Bottom line -

The Day of Judgement, at the Bema Seat of Christ, His people will be judged according to their deeds.

  • Either Eternal Life -

34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:34

  • Or Eternal Death -

Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41


JLB
 
Joined
Dec 1, 2017
Messages
716
Gender
Female
#78
You left out this scripture from Romans 6 -

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23
No, I didn't leave that out. It is in the full Romans 6 chapter that I posted.

Bottom line is, Christians are those redeemed of their sins through the grace of God in Christ. They are no longer ever to be judged as sinners because they are not sinners. All of Romans 6 clarifies that fact.
When those dead Christians are judged before God's Bema seat their life in Christ is reviewed. And their rewards are afforded given the judgment of their life in Christ. Scriptures have been repeatedly posted.
Those who are dead in their sins when they come before the white throne of judgment are judged for their sins. The sinner state they have is not a state the Christian is in at their judgment. Those scriptures are posted also.

The adversarial argument against the plan of Salvation that Jesus died to bring to the world does not overshadow the truth of the sacrifice Jesus made to save those who are called to him. And once redeemed they are no longer sinners. But saints. If they were still sinners redemption from sin would be ineffectual. It is not. The argument to persuade confusion in the saints about their status according to God's word was foreseen by God as he tells us in 1st Timothy 4.

Romans 6:23 reiterates everything the Christians here have said repeatedly. The wage of sin is death. Those wages are paid by those who die unredeemed in their sins.
While the Christian, the redeemed in Christ, know that the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Your arguments don't appear to know the difference.
 
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Messages
10,213
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
#79
"What if", was prefaced with informing the reader I was asking a question so that the reader could consider my narrative and give constructive advice or share thoughtful replies.
I prefer scriptural replies rather than "thoughtful" ones.
1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
19,295
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
#80
No, I didn't leave that out. It is in the full Romans 6 chapter that I posted.

Bottom line is, Christians are those redeemed of their sins through the grace of God in Christ. They are no longer ever to be judged as sinners because they are not sinners. All of Romans 6 clarifies that fact.
When those dead Christians are judged before God's Bema seat their life in Christ is reviewed. And their rewards are afforded given the judgment of their life in Christ. Scriptures have been repeatedly posted.
Those who are dead in their sins when they come before the white throne of judgment are judged for their sins. The sinner state they have is not a state the Christian is in at their judgment. Those scriptures are posted also.

The adversarial argument against the plan of Salvation that Jesus died to bring to the world does not overshadow the truth of the sacrifice Jesus made to save those who are called to him. And once redeemed they are no longer sinners. But saints. If they were still sinners redemption from sin would be ineffectual. It is not. The argument to persuade confusion in the saints about their status according to God's word was foreseen by God as he tells us in 1st Timothy 4.

Romans 6:23 reiterates everything the Christians here have said repeatedly. The wage of sin is death. Those wages are paid by those who die unredeemed in their sins.
While the Christian, the redeemed in Christ, know that the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Your arguments don't appear to know the difference.

Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:34


Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41



Here we have God's people who are gathered before His throne on the Day of Judgement.

  • Some inherit the kingdom of God.
  • Some are sentenced to hell.

The world of unbelievers are not in this Judgement, remember, that you stated that it was a separate Judgment for them.

Here is your quote from post number 46 -

The Bema seat of Christ is where the saints are to be judged.
and again from post number 62


Here at the Judgement seat of Christ, we see that there are both those who are welcomed into the kingdom of God, and those who are sentenced to hell.



JLB