judgement seat of Christ

[JLB]

I already did in post #150 you need the whole of scripture to understand the great white throne judgement and who will stand before the throne

I see no such language associated with the white throne Judgement that says Christ's people will receive their inheritance or that He will separate the sheep from the goats.

The Great White Throne Judgment

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:11-15


JLB

 

[Papyrus_dust]

I see no such language associated with the white throne Judgement that says Christ's people will receive their inheritance or that He will separate the sheep from the goats.

The Great White Throne Judgment

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:11-15


JLB

I think we have to realize the testament , testimony, of the good news and the apostles who gave their lives to deliver the truth of the Word of life to the world is a continuing narrative. Predicated on knowledge, pre-awareness, of prior information that was taught so as to arrive, in this case, at the Apostle John's revelations concerning , with regard to this chapter, the great white throne of judgment.
Therefore, the sheep and goats information that precedes that would be accounted in Matthew 25:31-46. As one example of a teaching place wherein they are referred to. Shared because that passage in particular relates expressly to Revelation 20.

 

[ezra]

I see no such language associated with the white throne Judgement that says Christ's people will receive their inheritance or that He will separate the sheep from the goats.

The Great White Throne Judgment

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:11-15


JLB

ya know this was good when i first started this. suddenly it turns into a your wrong i am right finger pointing . some think there is only one resurrection only one judgment . the only real thing that matters is if your saved or not

 

[GodsGrace]

There are more than one in all scripture.

Question: "What are all the different judgments in the Bible?"
http://www.gotquestions.org/all-the-judgments.html Love this site.

.....Judgments to occur in the future:

The judgments of the tribulation period (Revelation 6—16). These terrible judgments are pictured as seven seals opened, seven trumpets blown, and seven bowls poured out. God’s judgment against the wicked will leave no doubt as to His wrath against sin. Besides punishing sin, these judgments will have the effect of bringing the nation of Israel to repentance.

The judgment seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10). Resurrected (and raptured) believers in heaven will be judged for their works. Sin is not in view at this judgment, as that was paid for by Christ, but only faithfulness in Christian service. Selfish works or those done with wrong motives will be burned up (the “wood, hay, and stubble” of 1 Corinthians 3:12). Works of lasting value to the Lord will survive (the “gold, silver, and precious stones”). Rewards, which the Bible calls “crowns” (Revelation 3:11) will be given by the One who is “not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him” (Hebrews 6:10).

The judgment of the nations (Matthew 25:31–46). After the tribulation, the Lord Jesus will sit in judgment over the Gentile nations. They will be judged according to their treatment of Israel during the tribulation. This judgment is also called the judgment of the sheep and the goats because of the imagery Jesus uses in the Olivet Discourse. Those who showed faith in God by treating Israel favorably (giving them aid and comfort during the tribulation) are the “sheep” who will enter into the Millennial Kingdom. Those who followed the Antichrist’s lead and persecuted Israel are the “goats” who will be consigned to hell.

The judgment of angels (1 Corinthians 6:2–3). Paul says that Christians will judge angels. We aren’t exactly sure what this means, but the angels facing judgment would have to be the fallen angels. It seems that Satan’s hordes of demons will be judged by the redeemed ones of the Lamb. Some of these demons are already imprisoned in darkness and awaiting judgment, according Jude 1:6, due to their leaving their proper dwelling place.

The Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11–15). This final judgment of unbelievers for their sins occurs at the end of the Millennium, before the creation of the new heaven and earth. At this judgment, unbelievers from all the ages are judged for their sins and consigned to the lake of fire.

In Job 8:3, Bildad, one of Job’s friends, asks, “Does God pervert justice? Does the Almighty pervert what is right?” The answer, of course, is “no.” “He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just” (Deuteronomy 32:4), and God’s judgments will make His perfection shine forth in all its glory.

One of the Holy Spirit’s tasks in this world is to convict the world of coming judgment (John 16:8–11). When a person truly understands his sin, he will acknowledge his guilty position before a Holy God. The surety of judgment should cause the sinner to turn to the Savior and cast himself on the mercy of God in Christ. Praise the Lord that, in Christ, “mercy triumphs over judgment” (James 2:13).

Recommended Resource: Your Eternal Reward by Erwin Lutzer

Two judgements were confusing.
!!

What about this:
"It is appointed for man to die once, and then comes the judgement".
Hebrews 9:27

Any comment on that?

 

[JLB]

Therefore, the sheep and goats information that precedes that would be accounted in Matthew 25:31-46. As one example of a teaching place wherein they are referred to. Shared because that passage in particular relates expressly to Revelation 20.

Maybe it relates to Revelation 20:4-

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
Revelation 20:4-6

• But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.

The white throne Judgement involves those of the next resurrection.

The Judgement Seat of Christ occurs at His coming and the resurrection/rapture, just after the tribulation.


31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. Matthew 25:31-33


JLB

 

[Papyrus_dust]

Maybe there's no conflict between Matthew 25 and Revelation 20.

Matthew 25:31–46

nWhen the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the oholy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: pbefore him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall qseparate them one from another, as a shepherd q divideth his rsheep from the goats: son his right hand, but the goats on the left.

tthe King say unto uthem on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, winherit xthe kingdom yprepared for you zfrom the foundation of the world: aFor I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was ba stranger, and ye ctook me in: dNaked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye evisited me: fI was in prison, and ye came unto me. tthe King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, gInasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

hDepart from me, ye cursed, iinto everlasting fire, ykprepared for lthe devil and lmhis angels: nwas an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: ominister unto thee? pInasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. qeverlasting punishment: but the righteous into qrlife eternal.

 

[for_his_glory]

I see no such language associated with the white throne Judgement that says Christ's people will receive their inheritance or that He will separate the sheep from the goats.

The Great White Throne Judgment

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:11-15


JLB

Let me try to make it as simple as I can.

Great White Throne, all the dead (sheep and goats) that have been raised from their graves, John 5:28, 29, stand before the throne as God is seated on it. The sheep will be separated from the goats as I believe that the judgement seat of Christ will be by Gods right hand where it always has been as Jesus has always been our mediator before God. Then all the books including the book of life are opened and all the dead (sheep and goats) that have been raised will be judged for all their works, good or bad/evil, and judgement will be passed on all of them.

Matthew 25:31-46, The good that are on the right hand of Christ being His sheep will hear Him say, "Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world". Those on his left hand being the goats will hear Christ say, "Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me." These being the goats will go away into everlasting punishment.

 

[ezra]

Two judgements were confusing.
!!

What about this:
"It is appointed for man to die once, and then comes the judgement".
Hebrews 9:27

Any comment on that?

ITS NOT COMPLICATED the white throne judgment is for the lost the other judgement where Christians those truly saved give account of the good and bad bema seat

 

[GodsGrace]

ITS NOT COMPLICATED the white throne judgment is for the lost the other judgement where Christians those truly saved give account of the good and bad bema seat

To you Ezra because you know!
I've never looked into this.
It does sound complicated to me.
I always thought there was ONE judgement.
I'm going to take some time and study up on this.
Thanks!

 

[ezra]

https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/

 

[JLB]

ya know this was good when i first started this. suddenly it turns into a your wrong i am right finger pointing . some think there is only one resurrection only one judgment . the only real thing that matters is if your saved or not

Just a discussion bro, no finger pointing.
No I'm right and your wrong.

I just don't see the language in association with the white throne Judgement.

The Judgement Seat of Christ is all about eternal life or not for His people.


JLB

 

[Papyrus_dust]

Two judgements were confusing.
!!

What about this:
"It is appointed for man to die once, and then comes the judgement".
Hebrews 9:27

Any comment on that?

Sure, the first death is the natural death of the organic life form that his the human. All of Hebrews 9 where that excerpt is found I think is helpful to understand all that is being taught. If we did not have Christ we'd die and be judged as one's dead already in our sins. And then would to come the second death. Revelation 21:8

However, with Christ we die once and are then before the throne of God wherein we are not judged as the sinners are. But as the saints who were washed clean and were newborn, a new creation, living in Christ while on Earth. That is where our example as one with Christ will be reviewed and our rewards merited upon how we lived as one bearing the name , Christ-like.

 

[JLB]

Great White Throne, all the dead (sheep and goats) that have been raised from their graves, John 5:28, 29, stand before the throne as God is seated on it.

Here is the scripture pertaining to the white throne Judgement.

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:11-15

This resurrection and Judgement is after
(1000 years) the first resurrection, which occurs at His coming.


4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Revelation 20:4-5

The Key Phrase:

But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.


JLB

 

[Papyrus_dust]

Just a discussion bro, no finger pointing.
No I'm right and your wrong.

I just don't see the language in association with the white throne Judgement.

The Judgement Seat of Christ is all about eternal life or not for His people.


JLB

You know, the Bema seat, or Bimah, with regard to the Jewish Synagogue, has a history that dates back also to Greece?

 

[for_his_glory]

ya know this was good when i first started this. suddenly it turns into a your wrong i am right finger pointing . some think there is only one resurrection only one judgment . the only real thing that matters is if your saved or not

ezra, you are right as that is the only thing that matters. Any topic should be a friendly discussion of how and why we believe the way we do without it becoming a fighting match. I do enjoy getting into the deeper things of Gods word especially the book of Revelations as there is so much to learn there as it actually entails the whole Bible, OT and NT as it ties it all together.

 

[Papyrus_dust]

 

[for_his_glory]

Maybe it relates to Revelation 20:4-

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
Revelation 20:4-6

• But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.

The white throne Judgement involves those of the next resurrection.

The Judgement Seat of Christ occurs at His coming and the resurrection/rapture, just after the tribulation.


31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. Matthew 25:31-33


JLB

Rev 20:4 all happens during the seventh trumpet as all the events of it leads up to the last day. John sees thrones and they sat upon them as judgement was only given by God and Christ. This could be that the thrones he sees and the ones sitting on them is God and now Jesus sitting upon His throne of glory as all the kingdoms of the world will have become the kingdoms of God and of His Christ at the beginning of the seventh trumpet sounding, Rev 11:15.

This could also be talking about the great white throne as John sees the souls of those who were beheaded that refused to denounce Christ as they who are now dead will also be raised up on the last day, John 6:40: John 5:28, 29, which would be the day of the great white throne judgement. I believe the first resurrection is that of our Spiritual rebirth as we were then risen with Christ, Colossians 3:1, and physically dead or alive our Spirit always reigns with Christ. The second death is eternal damnation and being cast into the lake of fire, Rev 2:11 for they were not over comers.

 

[Jim Parker]

The second death is not about people, but of death and hell (grave) only being cast into the lake of fire for there will no longer be any need of them

Not so fast ... those who showed no mercy in the judgment described by Jesus at Mat 25:31-46 are sent to hell and hell is cast into the lake of fire with those condemned folks in it.

So it is very much about people.

iakov the fool

 

[th1b.taylor]

You can quote these Matthew scriptures as many times as you like, but yet you ignore the fact that the books are not opened until the time of the Great White Throne judgement when Christ separates the sheep from the goats and the books are opened for judgement as Christ will judge the good works of the sheep as they have done all unto the Lord and God will judge those who have rejected Him and Jesus and will be cast into the lake of fire. These that are in front of the throne are all those who were asleep in their graves that Christ will call to rise up and face their judgements

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Notice in vs. 11 that heaven and earth have already fled away from the face of God at this time as there is no more place for them. I'm not sure if it's a literal throne or symbolic,(leaning towards symbolic) but it is in the air according to 1 Thessalonian 4:16, 17 as we will meet Christ in the air and be with Him forever. Heaven and earth passes away after all are called by Christ from their graves, John 5:28, 29, as death and hell will then be cast into the lake of fire as there will no longer be any need of them.

Vs 12 says it is the dead, small and great, that stand before the throne as the books are opened, including the book of life. This shows me that those who are alive being those who are of Christ and those who have rejected Him and the Father have already been judged to eternal life with the Father or eternal damnation waiting for all the dead to be judged before God ushers down the New Jerusalem.

1 Corinthians 15:51 is speaking of those who are of Christ that are still alive at His coming as it reads we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed at the last trumpet after it sounds, but not until those who sleep in the grave that are of Christ are raised incorruptible and then we who are alive will be changed to incorruptible as we join them.

We know by reading John 5:28 and 29 that the sheep and the goats that are asleep in their graves will be raised up at the same time and will be apart of the Great White Throne judgement according to Rev 20:11-13.

One resurrection, one judgement of eternal life with the Father or the lake of fire as all the dead (sheep and goats) will be at the Great White Throne judgement as Christ will then give us our inheritance and crowns for the faithful works we did unto the Lord and the goats will receive their reward of eternal damnation being cast into the lake of fire for unfaithful unrighteous acts.

You and I, both know, by now that we disagree on this Judgment issue but I have a question, if you please. Can you scripturally support your position on this issue in the face of the scriptures found in this link;
https://www.allaboutgod.com/bema-seat.htm

and the scriptures found here;
https://www.gotquestions.org/great-white-throne-judgment.html

I am not trying to do any more than to do any more than get into an intelligent discussion here. You and I are the same on our theology, as far as I can tell, but it is my opinion that you have forgotten the general rule of Hermeneutics, that the any scripture,passage of scripture or collection of scriptures cannot be fully understood without the light of all scripture shinning on it.

In John 1:1-5 we discover some essential information; 1. Jesus is the God of all of the Bible 2. There is nothing we can see, without or, with our telescopes and microscopes or our natural or spiritual eyes He did not create.

That is important because when all of the scriptures are written by Jesus, making it truly impossible to ignore that from In the Beginning... through the very last verse of Revelation 22 is of one context, all written through 40 or so scribes He inspired.

With the Bible viewed the way it was written with consideration, always for why Jesus has this record written, our salvation, so much more can be tught by the Holy Spirit anfd He will.

May God bless you and yours and Merry Christmas. it's even PC to say it that way again.

 

[for_his_glory]

Here is the scripture pertaining to the white throne Judgement.

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:11-15

This resurrection and Judgement is after
(1000 years) the first resurrection, which occurs at His coming.


4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Revelation 20:4-5

The Key Phrase:

But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.


JLB

Come on JLB, I know where the scriptures are that speak of the great white throne judgement, but that is not the only place that speaks of it as it is throughout the whole Bible.

Here is our indifference as you believe in a literal 1000 years and I believe in a symbolic 1000 years as Revelations is both literal in parts and symbolic in parts. It's OK what we believe the 1000 years are as it truly makes no difference other than the timing of events.that leads up to the great white throne judgement. I see everything happening very quickly from the 7th trumpet to the last day of being the great white throne judgement. Others see it as a very long process of time in years and days, but we also have to remember no matter what we think it is, all is in Gods timing that is not numbered in days and years as we number them.