Just Finished Revelation...

[Edward]

So my reading of the New Testament came to an end recently (Through Biblegateway.com), and, as it neared the very end...it said some ominous things that I thought to share. In Chapter 21 it says;

6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son...(Amen)
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

But the fearful?! I took very close notice of that statement, it's scary. I know that we're not to fear and that it's serious and important (because it is the most often repeated phrase throughout the entire scriptures)...but this verse upped the anti on it to me. This is like a command. How would you like to wind up going to hell for doing everything right except that you were fearful at times when you should not have been?! I wouldn't. (Not that I do everything right, but still...) Do not fear. That is not a suggestion, it's a command. David before Goliath type of do not fear.

Before you OSAS crowd poo-poos me by saying, oh you're forgiven, note this other scripture which gave me pause, near the end of Revelation...

Revelation 22:
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.../(KJV)

So it is possible to have one's name erased out of the book of life. We can lose our salvation. This blows OSAS out of the water once and for all. Work out your salvation with fear and trembling...

 

[Nathan]

So my reading of the New Testament came to an end recently (Through Biblegateway.com), and, as it neared the very end...it said some ominous things that I thought to share. In Chapter 21 it says;

6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son...(Amen)
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

But the fearful?! I took very close notice of that statement, it's scary. I know that we're not to fear and that it's serious and important (because it is the most often repeated phrase throughout the entire scriptures)...but this verse upped the anti on it to me. This is like a command. How would you like to wind up going to hell for doing everything right except that you were fearful at times when you should not have been?! I wouldn't. (Not that I do everything right, but still...) Do not fear. That is not a suggestion, it's a command. David before Goliath type of do not fear.

Before you OSAS crowd poo-poos me by saying, oh you're forgiven, note this other scripture which gave me pause, near the end of Revelation...

Revelation 22:
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.../(KJV)

So it is possible to have one's name erased out of the book of life. We can lose our salvation. This blows OSAS out of the water once and for all. Work out your salvation with fear and trembling...

Fear is a real thing. There is good and bad fear. The deception is that people try to convince others that the bad fear is a result of not trusting in something - other than Christ.

Godly fear is good and brings us to repentance. It is the beginning of wisdom.

The fear spoken of is true fear that people cannot shake from their minds because they do not want to submit to the Gospel of Christ. It is a result of their denial.

We know why someone's name is blotted out of His book. It comes from sinning against God, denying His leading and worshiping other gods - blaspheming His Spirit who gives us power over sin.

As you can see, the people disregarded the God who saved them, and instead made for themselves one that they could decide what is right. They showed that they cared not for the God who saved them by eating and drinking(complete peace with what they had done in worshiping the golden calf).

Exodus 32
4 And he received the gold from their hand and fashioned it with a graving tool and made a golden calf. And they said, "These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!"
5 When Aaron saw this, he built an altar before it. And Aaron made proclamation and said, "Tomorrow shall be a feast to the LORD."
6 And they rose up early the next day and offered burnt offerings and brought peace offerings. And the people sat down to eat and drink and rose up to play.

33 But the LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against me, I will blot out of my book.
34 But now go, lead the people to the place about which I have spoken to you; behold, my angel shall go before you. Nevertheless, in the day when I visit, I will visit their sin upon them."

 

[Nathan]

Point is, there is good fear and to know the difference is as simple as trusting in Christ for salvation, or trusting in what you did or are doing for salvation.

Bad fear is the kind that comes when you find yourself in sin and you disregard it based on the idea that something you did before makes your sin ok, or something you can do will forgive your sin.

 

[Eugene]

So it is possible to have one's name erased out of the book of life. We can lose our salvation. This blows OSAS out of the water once and for all. Work out your salvation with fear and trembling...

What part of salvation are you fearful of? I read in John 5:24), "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." In (Romans 8:1) "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus."

Working out your own salvation referred to in (Philippians 2:12) is learning to overcome the habit of sin in our lives. This is the experiencing part of our salvation and is another step in our growth as a Christian. (2 Peter 1:5-7) tells us to "Add to your faith virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly kindness and charity." To realize this growth in our lives, we must learn to begin counting our old man dead. (Romans 6:6) "Knowing this, that our old man (The Adamic nature) is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.” (Ephesians 4:22) “That ye put off concerning the former conversation (Manner of life) the old man who is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;” (Colossians 3:9) “Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds." We all have an old man we should count as dead that still wants to rule our lives. Even though the Apostle Paul knew he was saved, he experienced all kinds of problems with the old man trying to control his life. (Romans 7:14-25) states that (15) he ends up doing that which he hates. In (16,17), Paul realizes that if he agrees that the law is good, then it is no more him that was responsible, but sin that was in him. In looking for an answer he says (24) "Who shall deliver me?" (25) "I thank God through Jesus Christ"

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Sounds as if we're all dead meat if it were not for the price paid for us to become sons of God instead of unbelievers that will come into judgment Jn 5:24, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. I was always of the opinion Edward, that you belonged to us who have been judged as being in Christ.

 

[markathome]

Revelation 21:8
Strong's Dictionary Number:1169
1 Original Word: δειλός
2 Word Origin: from deos (dread)
3 Transliterated Word: deilos
4 TDNT/TWOT Entry: None
5 Phonetic Spelling: di-los'
6 Part of Speech: Adjective
7 Strong's Definition: from deos (dread); timid, i.e. (by implication) faithless:--fearful.
8 Definition:

1. timid, fearful

Faithless makes more sense but if for some reason the word fear makes more sense to ya?

 

[WIP]

Here are a few verses I found that speak to this. What I gather from this is if we are fearful, where is God in our lives?

"Fear not, for I am with you;
Be not dismayed, for I am your God.
I will strengthen you,
Yes, I will help you,
I will uphold you with My righteous right hand."
Isaiah 41:10 NKJV

For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind. 2 Timothy 1:7 NKJV

The fear of man brings a snare,
But whoever trusts in the Lord shall be safe.
Proverbs 29:25 NKJV

In God I have put my trust;
I will not fear.
What can flesh do to me?
Psalm 56:4

Then He said to His disciples, “Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; nor about the body, what you will put on. Life is more than food, and the body is more than clothing. Consider the ravens, for they neither sow nor reap, which have neither storehouse nor barn; and God feeds them. Of how much more value are you than the birds? And which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature? If you then are not able to do the least, why are you anxious for the rest? Consider the lilies, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; and yet I say to you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. If then God so clothes the grass, which today is in the field and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, how much more will He clothe you, O you of little faith?
Luke 12:22-28 NKJV

“Do not fear, little flock, for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom." Luke 12:32 NKJV

What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? Romans 8:31 NKJV

 

[civilwarbuff]

Faithless makes more sense but if for some reason the word fear makes more sense to ya?

Yeah, I think faithless is the correct definition as opposed to simply timid, or cowardly in this case.
Strong's Concordance
deilos: cowardly, fearful
Original Word: δειλός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: deilos
Phonetic Spelling: (di-los')
Short Definition: cowardly, timid
Definition: cowardly, timid, fearful.
HELPS Word-studies
1169 deilós (an adjective derived from deidō, "fear-driven") – properly, dreadful, describing a person who loses their "moral gumption (fortitude)" that is needed to follow the Lord.

1169 /deilós ("fearful of losses") refers to an excessive fear (dread) of "losing," causing someone to be fainthearted (cowardly) – hence, to fall short in following Christ as Lord.

[1169 /deilós is always used negatively in the NT and stands in contrast to the positive fear which can be expressed by 5401 /phóbos ("fear," see Phil 2:12).] Biblehub

 

[Edward]

Fear is a real thing. There is good and bad fear. The deception is that people try to convince others that the bad fear is a result of not trusting in something - other than Christ.

Godly fear is good and brings us to repentance. It is the beginning of wisdom.

The fear spoken of is true fear that people cannot shake from their minds because they do not want to submit to the Gospel of Christ. It is a result of their denial.

We know why someone's name is blotted out of His book. It comes from sinning against God, denying His leading and worshiping other gods - blaspheming His Spirit who gives us power over sin.

As you can see, the people disregarded the God who saved them, and instead made for themselves one that they could decide what is right. They showed that they cared not for the God who saved them by eating and drinking(complete peace with what they had done in worshiping the golden calf).

Exodus 32
4 And he received the gold from their hand and fashioned it with a graving tool and made a golden calf. And they said, "These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!"
5 When Aaron saw this, he built an altar before it. And Aaron made proclamation and said, "Tomorrow shall be a feast to the LORD."
6 And they rose up early the next day and offered burnt offerings and brought peace offerings. And the people sat down to eat and drink and rose up to play.

33 But the LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against me, I will blot out of my book.
34 But now go, lead the people to the place about which I have spoken to you; behold, my angel shall go before you. Nevertheless, in the day when I visit, I will visit their sin upon them."

Well said.
I thought that it was real interesting that the Lord threw in the last reminder before He closed His...love letter to us, lol. He's serious about having no fear though. He knows better than us, that fear is also a choice (!!!) So if we're to have the mind of Christ, then we would fear nothing. If we do fear, then I guess that's the same as saying that we don't have the mind of Christ, nor are led by the Holy Spirit.

God tests us too. You think Jesus feared anything? Lol, I think not. You know how to spell faith? It's spelled r-i-s-k. That's how God spells it for us, lol. I think fear is the exact opposite of faith. So no wonder He's serious about it.
I fear nothing in Christ!

 

[reba]

Edward no fear does not mean you can play on the freeway wiht the trucks

 

[Edward]

What part of salvation are you fearful of? I read in John 5:24), "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." In (Romans 8:1) "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus."

Working out your own salvation referred to in (Philippians 2:12) is learning to overcome the habit of sin in our lives. This is the experiencing part of our salvation and is another step in our growth as a Christian. (2 Peter 1:5-7) tells us to "Add to your faith virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly kindness and charity." To realize this growth in our lives, we must learn to begin counting our old man dead. (Romans 6:6) "Knowing this, that our old man (The Adamic nature) is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.” (Ephesians 4:22) “That ye put off concerning the former conversation (Manner of life) the old man who is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;” (Colossians 3:9) “Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds." We all have an old man we should count as dead that still wants to rule our lives. Even though the Apostle Paul knew he was saved, he experienced all kinds of problems with the old man trying to control his life. (Romans 7:14-25) states that (15) he ends up doing that which he hates. In (16,17), Paul realizes that if he agrees that the law is good, then it is no more him that was responsible, but sin that was in him. In looking for an answer he says (24) "Who shall deliver me?" (25) "I thank God through Jesus Christ"

Sounds as if we're all dead meat if it were not for the price paid for us to become sons of God instead of unbelievers that will come into judgment Jn 5:24, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. I was always of the opinion Edward, that you belonged to us who have been judged as being in Christ.

I am Brother! Praise the Lord!! I'm not experiencing any fears or anything specific, I just was studying and found it real cool how the Lord ended the scriptures with some reminders, and what He said as His last words to us.
I thought about all those OSAS threads where people disagree so much, and it's like, there is no debate about it anymore methinks, after what He said there.

You make good points about Paul. Put off the old man..I die daily He said. He refers to the blood covenant I believe. The blood covenant is one which must be renewed daily. I try to do it first thing in the morning in prayer. I think we're really supposed to be taking communion every day too. I did buy another bottle of wine for that, lol. That probably ties in with how the doctors say that 1 to 1 1/2 oz of wine per day is good for people's health, because it goes back to communion.

 

[markathome]

Which parts of the def for the word Fear would this include or not include?

 

[Edward]

Edward no fear does not mean you can play on the freeway wiht the trucks

But of course. I think that would be tempting God, and He don't play like that. It means...don't fear what the Holy Spirit leads us to do. It seems like, God likes to tell people to do things that they'd rather not do at times! I've listened to so many testimonies from people, where they say no to the Lord! I don't want to do it! I think we've prolly all done that. Moses did, Jonah did, I have. I didn't want to move back here to Columbus! (This place sucks). Colorado is soo nice...but He told me to come, so here I am...and no, I wont play on the freeway. But I did chicken out one time when I had an unction to try and raise someone from the dead. I don't know why I thought of it, it prolly was the Holy Spirit now that I think about it. And I didn't do it. I chickened out and it still bothers me a little, even though I've asked forgiveness for it and repented. But how much glory would that have brought to God, if I had done it, and the Lord did raise her up? A lot. That is the part that sucks. Next time...no fear.

Fear of what? Looking foolish? Ha! too late for that already, right? Lol.

 

[iLOVE]

What part of salvation are you fearful of? I read in John 5:24), "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." In (Romans 8:1) "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus."

Working out your own salvation referred to in (Philippians 2:12) is learning to overcome the habit of sin in our lives. This is the experiencing part of our salvation and is another step in our growth as a Christian. (2 Peter 1:5-7) tells us to "Add to your faith virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly kindness and charity." To realize this growth in our lives, we must learn to begin counting our old man dead. (Romans 6:6) "Knowing this, that our old man (The Adamic nature) is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.” (Ephesians 4:22) “That ye put off concerning the former conversation (Manner of life) the old man who is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;” (Colossians 3:9) “Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds." We all have an old man we should count as dead that still wants to rule our lives. Even though the Apostle Paul knew he was saved, he experienced all kinds of problems with the old man trying to control his life. (Romans 7:14-25) states that (15) he ends up doing that which he hates. In (16,17), Paul realizes that if he agrees that the law is good, then it is no more him that was responsible, but sin that was in him. In looking for an answer he says (24) "Who shall deliver me?" (25) "I thank God through Jesus Christ"

Sounds as if we're all dead meat if it were not for the price paid for us to become sons of God instead of unbelievers that will come into judgment Jn 5:24, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. I was always of the opinion Edward, that you belonged to us who have been judged as being in Christ.

What happens to the person if their faith fails...they have stopped placing their Faith in Christ and Him Crucified?

 

[Jim Parker]

This blows OSAS out of the water once and for all.

That verse is not in the OSASV.
It's considered apocrypha.
Yes I am kidding.
And you are right.

 

[Eugene]

What happens to the person if their faith fails...they have stopped placing their Faith in Christ and Him Crucified?

Rom 10:3 For they (Israel) being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. (Are we serving God any better becoming lawkeepers which is only to make us aware of sin? It is called the ministration of death written and engraven in stones in 2 Cor 3:7.)

I just posted this next part on another thread a few days ago.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus. (Someday all will know it was God's grace; that great gift of God whereby we are saved.)
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
2Co 5:21 For He hath made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

How is this done?
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
And then Rom 8:4 says: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled IN us (Not by us, but by God.), who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

I’m losing track of where I’m reading what on these forums, but someone brought up the scripture in Jas 2:20, But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? (And then I would ask what works is James referring to?)
The bride of Christ is said to have made herself ready in Rev 19:7, and Rev 19:8 she qualified for that place by righteousness (or righteous works).

What is the alternative? Rev 7:14, These (The great multitude are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (They didn’t qualify to be the bride!)

Now back to those with a dead faith of Jas 2:20. What happens to them?
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and MEN (not God) gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

I’ll leave off here and await any further questions you may have of me. Thanks.

 

[Jim Parker]

What happens to the person if their faith fails...they have stopped placing their Faith in Christ and Him Crucified?

Faith is not a "thing" that fails or works.
Faith is the belief system by which one determines how to live one's life.

If someone believes that Jesus is God in flesh; that there is such a thing as eternal life; that it is the most desirable thing in the universe; and that, to acquire it, he must keep Jesus' commands then he will "faithfully" keep those commands. (Love one another etc.)

If, on the other hand, someone who is actively engaged in the process of being built up into the maturity of the fullness of Christ according to Ephesians 4, and he decides that the demands of such a life are too great and the promises questionable, then that person decides to discard the faith/belief system of following Jesus and substituting a different faith system.

So, it's not that faith fails to work but that the person fails to work his faith. (cute, huh?)

iakov the fool

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

The body is wretched but the spirit is clean for the born again as the Spirit of Truth is not a liar.

 

[stovebolts]

Edward no fear does not mean you can play on the freeway wiht the trucks

When I was a child, I needed fear to keep me safe. Out of fear of my Father and Mother, we stayed away from the freeway.
As an adult, it is no longer fear that stops me from playing on the freeway. Rather, it is an understanding of my surroundings, for which I not only have an awareness, but also respect.

As children, it is healthy to fear God. Solomon even wrote how fear is the beginning of knowledge. But we are expected to grow, and that fear matures into love. Not some mushy, romantic starry eyed love, but a biblical love. 1 Cor 12 I believe.

 

[stovebolts]

What happens to the person if their faith fails...they have stopped placing their Faith in Christ and Him Crucified?

Perhaps, depending on the situation, Jesus reaches out his hand and saves you... we often forget that God also has faith in us.

 

[Edward]

When I was a child, I needed fear to keep me safe. Out of fear of my Father and Mother, we stayed away from the freeway.
As an adult, it is no longer fear that stops me from playing on the freeway. Rather, it is an understanding of my surroundings, for which I not only have an awareness, but also respect.

As children, it is healthy to fear God. Solomon even wrote how fear is the beginning of knowledge. But we are expected to grow, and that fear matures into love. Not some mushy, romantic starry eyed love, but a biblical love. 1 Cor 12 I believe.

I agree, and scripture backs this up. The only thing that we are to fear is God Himself. I found that it is a life or death fear at first, then changes into a reverential awe and respect as one grows closer to the Lord.