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Justification and Sanctification

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#1
Justification and sanctification are two Words we Love because they speak of our release of our sinfulness into the fullness of God's Life.

Distinct Words with distinct meanings but one Concept. The Life of Jesus. Where Justification is basically our release from our conscience of sin. And the restoring of the conscience of Jesus in us.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Although they are not specifically used here we know this is what is spoken about.

By faith we are restored into a Father Child relationship.

And we enjoy our Loving Father.

And as time goes by and He teaches us more and more we seem to understand these words more and more.

And we enjoy them more and more.

It seems He is just taking us deeper and deeper into it.

So although everything is given to us and we understand it very well from the beginning that there is nothing lacking in it our experience of them just opens up more and more.

Like a Child growing and understanding more and more about Life.

Although any Child is born with everything complete any Child has to experience it more and more as He grows older.

Seems we just cannot fathom in the beginning all the richness included in it.

But basically it means that we as a Child of God have been born Complete. We just grow up to walk in it complete. As a Child can not walk the Fullness of God immediately.

But as we Live in them which is basically the Life of Jesus so the next step of the road opens up or the next phase of the Life of Jesus opens up. Like a baby who learns to crawl. He struggles to get it right and then he learns to crawl well and then there is a force pulling him up to start struggling to walk and the road is just ahead to experience more and more. Always something more.

In sanctification God is steadily and surely removing everything that is a hindrance to 100% focused just on Him. He is Holy. He has an undivided attention on us. Nothing is distracting Him. And we need to have it too to be perfect. To much in the world is taking us attention away from Him. It needs to be removed.

Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Bit by bit when we are ready. Until we are totally One. And all our treasure is just in heaven.

Mat 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
Mat 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
Mat 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Mat 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
Mat 6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

We can not built for ourselves a life while our Life is in Jesus in heaven. But we do it. And while we do it we live in righteousness. Our sins are paid. What we do not understand and can not do are paid
in Blood in Full. There is no hindrance by it to our relationship with God.

And we want more of this relationship and more means sanctification. More of the removal of our joy we find in our earthly lifestyle. This is sometimes very painful and called our Cross. But we are never forced. We first desire it and then it is done.

Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

So we are called to walk in righteousness. To allow the Word to clean us thoroughly on the inside. And in this right standing and loving relationship with God the outside (our live .. sanctification) "may be clean also".
----------------------------------
Just walk in unbroken sinless relationship with God brought by righteousness which is the Blood of Jesus learning to rely just on the sacrifice.

Do not mind anything that looks contradictory.

2Co 5:7 For we live by faith, not by sight.

And what we can not do God will do according to our wishes which is the fullness of Christ and total One Being.

Joh 17:19 It is for their sakes that I sanctify myself, so that they, too, may be sanctified by the truth.
Joh 17:20 I ask not only on behalf of these men, but also on behalf of those who will believe in me through their message,
Joh 17:21 so that they may all be one. Just as you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be one in us, so that the world may believe that you sent me.
Joh 17:22 "I have given them the glory that you gave me, so that they may be one, just as we are one.

This we can not understand. We can only understand what we are experiencing and not what is coming. But what is coming is for our Glory. He has it and He is restoring it in Us.

Eph 3:18 you will be able to understand, along with all the saints, what is wide, long, high, and deep—
Eph 3:19 that is, you will know the love of the Messiah—which transcends knowledge, and will be filled with all the fullness of God.
Eph 3:20 Now to the one who can do infinitely more than all we can ask or imagine according to the power that is working among us—
Eph 3:21 to him be glory in the church and in the Messiah Jesus to all generations, forever and ever! Amen.
 
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#2
When we try to understand the Word of God we gain knowledge.

If God reveals the mystery to drink the Word we gain Life.

The Life of Jesus is to be created in us. It can not happen with more knowledge.

God create by speaking.

And we need His "speaking" in order for the Life of Jesus to be created in us.

And when He speak Righteousness in us then our experience of ourselves as human beings change to that of Jesus.

And we began to enjoy Godly Life. And in this instance a clean conscience. We learn what it means to have fellowship with God with the Conscience of Jesus created in us.

We meet with God now on a new Way.

The way of Jesus. And thus we have the same fellowship that Jesus had.

Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
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#3
When we try to understand the Word of God we gain knowledge.

If God reveals the mystery to drink the Word we gain Life.

The Life of Jesus is to be created in us. It can not happen with more knowledge.

God create by speaking.

And we need His "speaking" in order for the Life of Jesus to be created in us.

And when He speak Righteousness in us then our experience of ourselves as human beings change to that of Jesus.

And we began to enjoy Godly Life. And in this instance a clean conscience. We learn what it means to have fellowship with God with the Conscience of Jesus created in us.

We meet with God now on a new Way.

The way of Jesus. And thus we have the same fellowship that Jesus had.

Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
:salute

His Voice within us produces faith. As we obey His Voice we continue to live, have the life God, by faith.

The just will live, have God's life, by faith.

From faith to faith.

From glory to glory.


35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:

37 “For yet a little while,
And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”

39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Hebrews 10:35-39



JLB
 
Joined
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Messages
143
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Male
#4
:salute

His Voice within us produces faith. As we obey His Voice we continue to live, have the life God, by faith.

The just will live, have God's life, by faith.

From faith to faith.

From glory to glory.


35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:

37 “For yet a little while,
And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”

39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Hebrews 10:35-39



JLB
Amen. God speak and we listen. And the Word of God that He speak is created in Us. And the Word which is the Life of Jesus manifests in us. This enable us to be Children of God. Not humans beings anymore. As we died to human being life and are born again in Godly Being Life. The Life of Christ. And thus God become Father of His Children as we are now of the Same Kind/Species.
 
Joined
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Messages
10,410
Gender
Female
#5
Justification and sanctification are two Words we Love because they speak of our release of our sinfulness into the fullness of God's Life.

Distinct Words with distinct meanings but one Concept. The Life of Jesus. Where Justification is basically our release from our conscience of sin. And the restoring of the conscience of Jesus in us.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Although they are not specifically used here we know this is what is spoken about.

By faith we are restored into a Father Child relationship.

And we enjoy our Loving Father.

And as time goes by and He teaches us more and more we seem to understand these words more and more.

And we enjoy them more and more.

It seems He is just taking us deeper and deeper into it.

So although everything is given to us and we understand it very well from the beginning that there is nothing lacking in it our experience of them just opens up more and more.

Like a Child growing and understanding more and more about Life.

Although any Child is born with everything complete any Child has to experience it more and more as He grows older.

Seems we just cannot fathom in the beginning all the richness included in it.

But basically it means that we as a Child of God have been born Complete. We just grow up to walk in it complete. As a Child can not walk the Fullness of God immediately.

But as we Live in them which is basically the Life of Jesus so the next step of the road opens up or the next phase of the Life of Jesus opens up. Like a baby who learns to crawl. He struggles to get it right and then he learns to crawl well and then there is a force pulling him up to start struggling to walk and the road is just ahead to experience more and more. Always something more.

In sanctification God is steadily and surely removing everything that is a hindrance to 100% focused just on Him. He is Holy. He has an undivided attention on us. Nothing is distracting Him. And we need to have it too to be perfect. To much in the world is taking us attention away from Him. It needs to be removed.

Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Bit by bit when we are ready. Until we are totally One. And all our treasure is just in heaven.

Mat 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
Mat 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
Mat 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Mat 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
Mat 6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

We can not built for ourselves a life while our Life is in Jesus in heaven. But we do it. And while we do it we live in righteousness. Our sins are paid. What we do not understand and can not do are paid
in Blood in Full. There is no hindrance by it to our relationship with God.

And we want more of this relationship and more means sanctification. More of the removal of our joy we find in our earthly lifestyle. This is sometimes very painful and called our Cross. But we are never forced. We first desire it and then it is done.

Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

So we are called to walk in righteousness. To allow the Word to clean us thoroughly on the inside. And in this right standing and loving relationship with God the outside (our live .. sanctification) "may be clean also".
----------------------------------
Just walk in unbroken sinless relationship with God brought by righteousness which is the Blood of Jesus learning to rely just on the sacrifice.

Do not mind anything that looks contradictory.

2Co 5:7 For we live by faith, not by sight.

And what we can not do God will do according to our wishes which is the fullness of Christ and total One Being.

Joh 17:19 It is for their sakes that I sanctify myself, so that they, too, may be sanctified by the truth.
Joh 17:20 I ask not only on behalf of these men, but also on behalf of those who will believe in me through their message,
Joh 17:21 so that they may all be one. Just as you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be one in us, so that the world may believe that you sent me.
Joh 17:22 "I have given them the glory that you gave me, so that they may be one, just as we are one.

This we can not understand. We can only understand what we are experiencing and not what is coming. But what is coming is for our Glory. He has it and He is restoring it in Us.

Eph 3:18 you will be able to understand, along with all the saints, what is wide, long, high, and deep—
Eph 3:19 that is, you will know the love of the Messiah—which transcends knowledge, and will be filled with all the fullness of God.
Eph 3:20 Now to the one who can do infinitely more than all we can ask or imagine according to the power that is working among us—
Eph 3:21 to him be glory in the church and in the Messiah Jesus to all generations, forever and ever! Amen.
Hi Johan,
This is a very important thread.
I'm sorry I didn't see it till just now.

I do wonder how you know so much about J and S.
I find that many do not have these two words in their vocabulary,,,
If they did, many more would understand the Word of God much better.

A small problem we encounter is that Paul used the two terms interchangeably.
It required theologians to separate the two ideas and to explain them. This happened soon after Jesus died, when learned men read the letter of Paul and began to put the concept of Christianity into teachings.

We can know for sure that the meanings are clear:

Justification: When we initially learn about God and decide we want to follow Him.
We are immediately justified. This is a legal standing with God. We
are saved and born from above. Our spirit is joined with God's spirit.

Sanctification: This is a walk that will last our whole life. We grow, as you said, with
the help of the Holy Spirit. We cooperate with God to be separate from
the world and to be inhabitants of the Kingdom of God, here on earth.
God show us through the Holy Spirit how we are to be, and we cooperate
by being as He would want and by behaving as He would want.

Great post.
 
Joined
Nov 12, 2017
Messages
241
#6
Hi Johan,
This is a very important thread.
I'm sorry I didn't see it till just now.

I do wonder how you know so much about J and S.
I find that many do not have these two words in their vocabulary,,,
If they did, many more would understand the Word of God much better.

A small problem we encounter is that Paul used the two terms interchangeably.
It required theologians to separate the two ideas and to explain them. This happened soon after Jesus died, when learned men read the letter of Paul and began to put the concept of Christianity into teachings.

We can know for sure that the meanings are clear:

Justification: When we initially learn about God and decide we want to follow Him.
We are immediately justified. This is a legal standing with God. We
are saved and born from above. Our spirit is joined with God's spirit.

Sanctification: This is a walk that will last our whole life. We grow, as you said, with
the help of the Holy Spirit. We cooperate with God to be separate from
the world and to be inhabitants of the Kingdom of God, here on earth.
God show us through the Holy Spirit how we are to be, and we cooperate
by being as He would want and by behaving as He would want.

Great post.
Good observation Wondering. The caveat here is Lip service ( mere faith in Christ as savior without following His commands ) will lead to judgment, I'm afraid--- despite all the salvation guarantees Pastors and teachers issue, it is ultimately only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life, will finally be saved. And who knows those names except for the Lamb and Father God?
Revelation 21-27: "Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life. "
It appears most Christians in the US are mainly concerned about salvation. To me salvation means NOTHING. The true joy ( for me) is in abiding in the Lord and keeping His commandments and doing the Will of God over mine ( I keep trying that-- succeeding/failing )
Id like to quote the legendary missionary from India Sadhu Sundar Singh ( his words resonate with my heart)

"Should I worship Him from fear of hell, may I be cast into it.
Should I serve Him from desire of gaining heaven, may He keep me out.
But should I worship Him from love alone, He reveals Himself to me,
that my whole heart may be filled with His love and presence."

- Sadhu Sundar Singh

For me, that's the true Christianity. But then that's JUST my view Didn't the Lord Jesus say in Luke 17 : 21 ( KJV) that kingdom of God is within us?
" Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you".

God bless all
 
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#7
I see it too. Mostly Christians are not interested in growing in Jesus.

1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

They have no "desire".

But the desire comes from God. And He is not giving it. Why not?
 
Joined
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Messages
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Female
#8
Good observation Wondering. The caveat here is Lip service ( mere faith in Christ as savior without following His commands ) will lead to judgment, I'm afraid--- despite all the salvation guarantees Pastors and teachers issue, it is ultimately only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life, will finally be saved. And who knows those names except for the Lamb and Father God?
Revelation 21-27: "Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life. "
It appears most Christians in the US are mainly concerned about salvation. To me salvation means NOTHING. The true joy ( for me) is in abiding in the Lord and keeping His commandments and doing the Will of God over mine ( I keep trying that-- succeeding/failing )
Id like to quote the legendary missionary from India Sadhu Sundar Singh ( his words resonate with my heart)

"Should I worship Him from fear of hell, may I be cast into it.
Should I serve Him from desire of gaining heaven, may He keep me out.
But should I worship Him from love alone, He reveals Himself to me,
that my whole heart may be filled with His love and presence."

- Sadhu Sundar Singh

For me, that's the true Christianity. But then that's JUST my view Didn't the Lord Jesus say in Luke 17 : 21 ( KJV) that kingdom of God is within us?
" Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you".

God bless all
Hi RS
A few comments:

My first highlight in red is very much believed in the US, as you've noted.
We call it believing in Jesus as Savior, but NOT as Lord.
He must be our Savior, but He must also be our Lord.
Pastors are leading many astray by telling them that they need to believe ONE TIME, and that persons will be saved forever. Some go so far as to say that they could abandon God, and they will still be saved -- when the bible teaches that it is our FAITH that saves us. One that returns to a life of sin, does not have faith.

As regards the above, however, I do want to say that if a Pastor leads one astray, it is HE who will have to speak to God about his mistake, the person who was taught incorrectly is still saved? How could he do what he does not know? I pray God is a merciful God - as I know He is. I believe He will hold us responsible only for what we truly believe. Of course, I can't be sure about this...

I love that statement by Singh. So true.

And, a question, what do you mean by the Kingdom is within us?
I also believe the Kingdom is all around us and is made up by believers.
I believe Jesus did come to set up His Kingdom right here on earth.
A Kingdom that WE are supposed to make be better than the world we're in.
Jesus spoke about the Kingdom a lot. More than about salvation.
If that's what you mean, then I'd have to agree. WE are the Kingdom on earth.
 
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#9
I see it too. Mostly Christians are not interested in growing in Jesus.

1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

They have no "desire".

But the desire comes from God. And He is not giving it. Why not?
What do you mean by
"the desire comes from God"?
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
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Joined
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Messages
18,829
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Male
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#10
As regards the above, however, I do want to say that if a Pastor leads one astray, it is HE who will have to speak to God about his mistake, the person who was taught incorrectly is still saved? How could he do what he does not know? I pray God is a merciful God - as I know He is. I believe He will hold us responsible only for what we truly believe. Of course, I can't be sure about this...
God is surely merciful, but is also just.

Paul deals with this very thing in 1 Corinthians 3:9-17

The builder and the building.
The worker who builds and the “work” being built is people; The Temple of God.

9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.
1 Corinthians 3:9-17

If those responsible for building people into the Temple of God each 70% correct doctrine but don’t teach them about walking according to the Spirit rather than walking according to the flesh, because they will never be judged according to there deeds, whether sinful or righteous and the person who is the disciple begins to live for the flesh and defiles those Christian’s around them in Church with their immorality then if that person doesn’t repent and turn back to the truth they will end up being destroyed by God on the day of Judgement.

That’s why Paul was so adamant about removing those who lived in immorality from among the Church.

Example:

9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”
1 Corinthians 5:9-13

This example come right after what Paul taught in chapter 3.


JLB
 
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#11
What do you mean by
"the desire comes from God"?
The "desire" or the Power to drink the Word as a baby drink milk is not something just inside of the human beings. Because we as humans perceive words differently. Words to us is a means of communication. However God's Word create. He created the whole of the Universe by speaking. And that is a mystery that is only resolved by a Revelation from God. Then when we see the Word of God as Milk we can drink it. Before this revelation it will never be Milk. Only God can give that. And with that right "Spiritual Attitude" the resulting Spiritual Growth will be evident.

https://web.facebook.com/johan.abrahams.7/posts/1169142209888902
 

WIP

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#12
Hi RS
A few comments:

My first highlight in red is very much believed in the US, as you've noted.
We call it believing in Jesus as Savior, but NOT as Lord.
He must be our Savior, but He must also be our Lord.
Pastors are leading many astray by telling them that they need to believe ONE TIME, and that persons will be saved forever. Some go so far as to say that they could abandon God, and they will still be saved -- when the bible teaches that it is our FAITH that saves us. One that returns to a life of sin, does not have faith.

As regards the above, however, I do want to say that if a Pastor leads one astray, it is HE who will have to speak to God about his mistake, the person who was taught incorrectly is still saved? How could he do what he does not know? I pray God is a merciful God - as I know He is. I believe He will hold us responsible only for what we truly believe. Of course, I can't be sure about this...

I love that statement by Singh. So true.

And, a question, what do you mean by the Kingdom is within us?
I also believe the Kingdom is all around us and is made up by believers.
I believe Jesus did come to set up His Kingdom right here on earth.
A Kingdom that WE are supposed to make be better than the world we're in.
Jesus spoke about the Kingdom a lot. More than about salvation.
If that's what you mean, then I'd have to agree. WE are the Kingdom on earth.
I sure an glad that God is in control and not people! :nod
 
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#13
God is surely merciful, but is also just.

Paul deals with this very thing in 1 Corinthians 3:9-17

The builder and the building.
The worker who builds and the “work” being built is people; The Temple of God.

9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.
1 Corinthians 3:9-17

If those responsible for building people into the Temple of God each 70% correct doctrine but don’t teach them about walking according to the Spirit rather than walking according to the flesh, because they will never be judged according to there deeds, whether sinful or righteous and the person who is the disciple begins to live for the flesh and defiles those Christian’s around them in Church with their immorality then if that person doesn’t repent and turn back to the truth they will end up being destroyed by God on the day of Judgement.

That’s why Paul was so adamant about removing those who lived in immorality from among the Church.

Example:

9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”
1 Corinthians 5:9-13

This example come right after what Paul taught in chapter 3.


JLB
1 Corinthians 3:9-17, BTW, is what Catholics lean on for purgatory.

But getting back to topic:
James says that those who teach will be held to a higher standard than those who are taught.
They will incur a stricter judgment.
James 3:1

This is what I was referring to. If a person has been taught all his life that once he is saved he will always be saved, no matter what, can God still hold him accountable?

I fear for these persons. Paul feared for himself.
1 Corinthians 9:27
Paul made his body his slave, so that, after having preached to others, he himself should not be disqualified.

I hate to post this but...
1 Corinthians 10:21
A person cannot drink from the cup of the Lord and from the cup of demons.
Surely a saved person can know when he is doing wrong...
Even if they never read the bible.
The Holy Spirit is still at work in their soul.
John 16:8-11
 
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#15
The "desire" or the Power to drink the Word as a baby drink milk is not something just inside of the human beings. Because we as humans perceive words differently. Words to us is a means of communication. However God's Word create. He created the whole of the Universe by speaking. And that is a mystery that is only resolved by a Revelation from God. Then when we see the Word of God as Milk we can drink it. Before this revelation it will never be Milk. Only God can give that. And with that right "Spiritual Attitude" the resulting Spiritual Growth will be evident.

https://web.facebook.com/johan.abrahams.7/posts/1169142209888902
Agreed. This is one of the works of the Holy Spirit.
To be our paraclete, to guide us.
So that eventually we may also have some meat...
Hebrews 5:12
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
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#16
This is what I was referring to. If a person has been taught all his life that once he is saved he will always be saved, no matter what, can God still hold him accountable?
God holds us accountable for our deeds.

Whether sinful or righteous.

If a person who has the Spirit within them to lead them and teach them, will have the ability to express what the Spirit desires and learn from what the scriptures teach.

Just because a person is taught OSAS doesn’t necessarily mean they will live sinful lives and never repent.

If a person truly loves the Lord and desires to please Him, they should eventually come to the knowledge of the truth, if they live long enough.

There is also the principle of being a baby Christian or mature and what the Lord requires of each.


JLB
 
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#18
Agreed. This is one of the works of the Holy Spirit.
To be our paraclete, to guide us.
So that eventually we may also have some meat...
Hebrews 5:12
True. But meat is only after you are "skilful in the word o righteousness" As many are telling themselves and others that they are on the meat while it is obvious to those on the meat that they are lying and just ruled by their pride.

Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
 
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#19
Because heaven would be as much a disaster as earth is today. :cool2
I agree. The earth is a mess. Because of humans ruling.

We need God's ruling.

http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/his-kingdom.68782/

And we need to learn it in our houses and take it to our fellowships and then to the world.

1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

And here at this point we are now with the "strong meat". How to allow God to rule in our houses and in our fellowships and in our community and in our forums. Because Ruling is only done correctly by Him. That means a "step aside". So how is that done?

http://forums.delphiforums.com/king

https://web.facebook.com/johan.abrahams.7/posts/1155494854586971

https://web.facebook.com/johan.abrahams.7/posts/1150239065112550
 
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#20
I agree. The earth is a mess. Because of humans ruling.

We need God's ruling.

http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/his-kingdom.68782/

And we need to learn it in our houses and take it to our fellowships and then to the world.

1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

And here at this point we are now with the "strong meat". How to allow God to rule in our houses and in our fellowships and in our community and in our forums. Because Ruling is only done correctly by Him. That means a "step aside". So how is that done?

http://forums.delphiforums.com/king

https://web.facebook.com/johan.abrahams.7/posts/1155494854586971

https://web.facebook.com/johan.abrahams.7/posts/1150239065112550
I agree Johan but we ain't dead yet and there's plenty Jesus still around here that get's drowned out by the clutter .. Our schools and colleges are still full of young christians in the South, especially the sports teams and coaches .. Even I was invited to pray and speak at a local high school and I'm no preacher , ha, they were slouching in their seats and I told them to sit up straight like a man and quit laying down in those chairs, even the coaches sat up straight . :lol I spoke on King David and his mighty men who went and fought the Philistines all the way to a well in Jerusalem to get their king the drink of water he desired, then when they said ''here King is your water'' David poured it out on the ground and said ''how can I drink this when you have none'' and then the unity and love in that camp because David loved God and they loved each other .. I watch many interviews of our college youth and seems every one mentions Jesus .. Here's one young man who'd rather talk about Jesus starts about 1:30
 
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