Justification and Sanctification

[GodsGrace]

I haven’t suggested that you discard the English Bibles.

You are misrepresenting my point. I never said or implied nor do I believe the English translations are incorrect. It’s just a fact that modern English does not distinguish a plural form of “you”. NT Greek does. So do Southerners by using y’all.

I haven’t suggested that we can’t trust our Bibles or to stop reading them.

Then you are overlooking the difference in Paul saying that the Holy Spirit is in the body of the church (y’all) versus the Holy Spirit being in the body (the flesh) of an individual.

If we can't agree on the English translation, a myriad of them, then, yes, the bible cannot be trusted.

Let's try the Italian version since a singular you and a plural you exists. The clincher comes in at verse 16:

15 "Non sapete che i vostri corpi sono membra di Cristo? Prendero' dunque
le membra di Cristo e ne faro' membra di meretrice? Non sia mai !
16 O non sapete che CHI SI UNISCE a una meretrice forma un corpo solo?
I due formeranno, dice, una sola carne."
Source: E Dio Disse...La Bibbia
Nuovissima Versione San Paolo

The first "you" is plural.
But in verse 16 you see that it become personal and individual.
Chi si unisce means he who unites himself.
In God's eyes we are considered as individuals who make up the Body of Christ.

The Holy Spirit is in the body of the church and in each individual body.
Is this what the debate is about?

 

[GodsGrace]

How interesting. I am very interested in discussion Eph 1;13,14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5 but this poster isn't interested in discussion with me.


I wonder why this poster thinks the words "as long as your born again and have eternal life" have any relevance to Eph 1:13 or 14 when those words don't even occur in the verses. Nor NO WHERE ELSE in Scripture.

But if the other poster would follow forum rules and provide Scripture that supports her claims, she could have a point. But there are no such verses that support what is being claimed.


Couldn't help but notice that no verses are given to support this claim.

However, those sealed have believed (Eph 1:13) and therefore have eternal life (John 3:15,1636, 5:24, 6:47) and therefore shall never perish (John 10:28).


Let's follow forum rules and provide verses that support claims.


Irrelevant to the issue of God's sealing with the Holy Spirit.

What did Jesus say about the coming Holy Spirit? That He would be with us forever. John 14:16


Where does "force" enter the issue? No where is where.

[QUOTE Even if you would no longer WISH to be
Where does the Bible teach that one can undo anything that God has done for them? Again, no where is where.

If there were verses that supported any of these claims, I'm sure they would have been shared.

Is the Trinity explained in the bible?
Is justification and sanctification explained in the bible?
(correctly)
Does it say somewhere in the bible that Jesus is God?
Please post it.

 

[PeterJens]

Jesus made 3 points about one's security.
POINT 1: those who believe possess eternal life. John 3:15,16,36, 5:24, 6:47, 11:25-27
This means that at the very moment one believes they possess eternal life. Because there are no verses about any probationary time frame before one receives eternal life.
POINT 2: Jesus Himself is the Giver of the gift of eternal life. John 10:28a
POINT 3: Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28b
Please take note that I have supported each of these points with Scripture.
If Jesus never made these points, please address each of the verses and prove through exegesis that He said and meant something else.
Do you agree that Jesus taught these 3 points about eternal security?

15> that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.
John 3:15

27> My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28> I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
John 10:27-28

Let me put this simply. Who is Jesus? What has He done? What is believing in Him?
If you get the answers right, Jesus says you have eternal life.

Who are the sheep? Jesus is saying the sheep and Him know each other and the sheep
listen to Jesus and follow Him.
To these sheep He gives eternal life, and these sheep are safe in His hand.

Now most of the core meaning of these verses is hidden elsewhere. It is focusing on the group
who fulfill the verses, who have the right relationship and understanding with Christ who receive
the promise.

The problem is some assume so much from their church background and teaching without actually
working it through, that it seems to make sense, but it means different things to the listeners depending
on their assumptions.

Now Jesus says simply, His family, His friends obey God, do what the Father tells them to do, that the
very act of loving, is the witness of who His people are.

35> "By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
John 13:35

21> Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
John 14:21

Now if a sheep is not loving and not obeying Jesus's commands, how can they claim to be a sheep
or even know God.

4> The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5> But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him:
6> Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
1 John 2:4-6

What I am sharing here is simple and plain. The promises are for those who walk in the fruit of the spirit
who are no longer friends to the world but friends to God.

Now in reality, purity divides the world. If one has a pure heart and see God the above is obvious and
one knows it. This is not really an argument but about seeing the promise in Christ, claiming it, and
walking in repentance, confession and faith to see it work in ones heart.

All I can do is encourage people to walk this road as Jesus calls us to do.
Halleluyah, come Lord Jesus, Amen

 

[PeterJens]

However, it's not my word at all.

Heb 6:18 - God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope set before us may be greatly encouraged.
It's the Bible that uses the word "impossible". I just quote the Bible.
No.
Does the Bible end up in fatalism?
Since the Bible uses the word, this is just a charge against the Bible about distorting "it all".
This is mumbo jumbo. The Kingdom is the Kingdom because it is God's Kingdom. For no other reason.
Your posts are full of claims, but without ANY evidence from Scripture. Please follow forum rules.

My friend. Let us look at the passage from Hebrews
17> In the same way God wanted to demonstrate more clearly to the heirs of the promise that his purpose was unchangeable, and so he intervened with an oath,
18> so that we who have found refuge in him may find strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope set before us through two unchangeable things, since it is impossible for God to lie.
19> We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, sure and steadfast, which reaches inside behind the curtain,
20> where Jesus our forerunner entered on our behalf, since he became a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek. The Nature of Melchizedek’s Priesthood
Heb 6:17-20

The passage is saying God has provided two things.
1. A promise
2. An oath

So the logic is saying, God could change His mind, come out with another view point
we were not aware of, except He spoke to the heirs of the promise and gave an oath
and these bind Him.

So the passage rather than denying God cannot choose to change His mind etc. He has
limited Himself in this particular circumstance with a promise and an oath.

Let me put this subject into context of Ezek 18:21-28

21> “But if the wicked person turns from all the sin he has committed and observes all my statutes and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die.
22> None of the sins he has committed will be held against him; because of the righteousness he has done, he will live.
23> Do I actually delight in the death of the wicked, declares the sovereign LORD? Do I not prefer that he turn from his wicked conduct and live?
24> “But if a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and practices wrongdoing according to all the abominable practices the wicked carry out, will he live? All his righteous acts will not be remembered; because of the unfaithful acts he has done and the sin he has committed, he will die.
25> “Yet you say, ‘The Lord’s conduct is unjust!’ Hear, O house of Israel: Is my conduct unjust? Is it not your conduct that is unjust?
26> When a righteous person turns back from his righteousness and practices wrongdoing, he will die for it; because of the wrongdoing he has done, he will die.
27> When a wicked person turns from the wickedness he has committed and does what is just and right, he will preserve his life.
28> Because he considered and turned from all the sins he had done, he will surely live; he will not die.

Now in the above passage two actions result in different outcomes.
1 a wicked man who turns from his sin, and obeys God, he will live
2. a righteous man who turns from righteous deeds to wickedness, he will die

Now these are conditional promises based on behaviour.
Now if you ignore the conditions, and say the wicked man has become righteous and given life, then
it is a lie if he turns back to wickedness and gets death.

So one has to be very careful. Promises are bounded by who they are addressed to and why.
And in the eternal they are true, if one sees back in time, but we are not there, we are now in choice
and consequence.

So unfortunately you have not to my mind proven your point, rather shown how true what I am saying
is from our perspective.

And my friend, I am showing scripture all along and following forum rules.
So I wonder what makes you feel that I have not.

12> Compete well for the faith and lay hold of that eternal life you were called for and made your good confession for in the presence of many witnesses.
13> I charge you before God who gives life to all things and Christ Jesus who made his good confession before Pontius Pilate,
14> to obey this command without fault or failure until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ
15> – whose appearing the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, will reveal at the right time.
1 Timothy 6:12-15

 

[chessman]

If we can't agree on the English translation, a myriad of them, then, yes, the bible cannot be trusted.

Strike 3.
I never said that I did not agree on the English translation.

What I said was that your ‘translation’ below is incorrect. Because it is incorrect in English and Greek. And proved it is incorrect.

Do you (it doesn't matter if it's plural or not) not know that YOUR bodies (1st person singular) are the members of Christ?"

 

[PeterJens]

Since the Bible uses the word, this is just a charge against the Bible about distorting "it all".

Absolutes are dangerous things.
Absolutes lead people to the end justifies the means.
It is not how you get there that matters just arriving.

The wars generated by the reformation, and the propoganda caused the deaths of many millions.
Simplistic idealism, which makes things black and white, just creates division and justifies extreme
violence. Occasionally violence is necessary, when it stops violence.

So impossible is a word like never, or always, needs to be used rarely and only in very specific
circumstances.

11> I confirm my covenant with you: Never again will all living things be wiped out by the waters of a flood; never again will a flood destroy the earth.”
Genesis 9:11
The Lord limits Himself out of choice, He makes commitments He will not break.

4> As for the Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are just. He is a reliable God who is never unjust, he is fair and upright.
Deuteronomy 32:4

1> The LORD’s angelic messenger went up from Gilgal to Bokim. He said, “I brought you up from Egypt and led you into the land I had solemnly promised to give to your ancestors. I said, ‘I will never break my agreement with you,
2> but you must not make an agreement with the people who live in this land. You should tear down the altars where they worship.’ But you have disobeyed me. Why would you do such a thing?
3> At that time I also warned you, ‘If you disobey, I will not drive out the Canaanites before you. They will ensnare you and their gods will lure you away.’”
Judges 2:1-3

Above is a promise given by God, which He fulfilled, but changed the consequences because the people
had not obeyed.

Impossible. This is what Jesus said about the impossible
“Then who can be saved?”
26> Jesus looked at them and replied, “This is impossible for mere humans, but for God all things are possible.”
Matthew 19:25-26

Now Jesus is not saying God will break His word, He will go against His desires or intentions, but as far
as salvation, though it is impossible for man to save himself by his behaviour, God is going to make salvation
possible.

I use this as an illustration of meaning and boundaries are not mentioned in a lot of these statements, but
scripture as a whole puts them there for those willing to listen and find them, Amen

 

[PeterJens]

This is mumbo jumbo. The Kingdom is the Kingdom because it is God's Kingdom. For no other reason.

A egg is an egg. A face is a face.
If you define something, by repeating it adds nothing more than a repeat.
I wish there was something deeper here.
Love is the foundation of who God is, and what the Kingdom is.
"God is love"
Jesus is Gods love to mankind. Jesus is the truth, the way and the life.

If you cannot see this, there is nothing else. As John says
20> If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.
21> And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother
1 John 4:20-21

Dear brothers and sisters, when we know we love Gods people we know we love God.
The apostles were brutal. If one does not know this love, they do not know God.

 

[FreeGrace]

Is the Trinity explained in the bible?

Yes, obviously.

Is justification and sanctification explained in the bible?

Again, yes.

(correctly)
Does it say somewhere in the bible that Jesus is God?
Please post it.

I'm really amazed at this line of questioning. It appears a belief that Jesus is not God. Which would be heretical, of course.

And I'm always glad for the opportunity to provide Scripture that clearly supports my beliefs and claims.

Regarding the FACT that Jesus is God:
Titus 1:3 - and which now at his appointed season he has brought to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior,

Titus 1:4 - To Titus, my true son in our common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.

The connection here is obvious. "God our Savior" in v.3 is none other than "Christ Jesus our Savior" in v.4.

No less than 40 times in the NIV do we find the words "Son of God" in reference to Jesus Christ.

 

[FreeGrace]

15> that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.
John 3:15

27> My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28> I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
John 10:27-28

Let me put this simply. Who is Jesus? What has He done? What is believing in Him?
If you get the answers right, Jesus says you have eternal life.

Who are the sheep? Jesus is saying the sheep and Him know each other and the sheep
listen to Jesus and follow Him.
To these sheep He gives eternal life, and these sheep are safe in His hand.

No, neither v.27 nor v.28 of John 10 make any conditions on recipients of eternal life. And John 3:15,16,36, 5:24, 6:47 all state the FACT that those who believe possess (have) eternal life.

So receiving eternal life is on the basis of faith in Christ, not on any kind of behavior, which seems to be the claim here.

Now most of the core meaning of these verses is hidden elsewhere.

There is zero basis for this claim. The meaning of these verses is clear enough. They don't need a "hidden verse" elsewhere.

Where does one get such ideas?

It is focusing on the group who fulfill the verses, who have the right relationship and understanding with Christ who receive
the promise.

Nope. The verses clearly focus on the believer who has believed in Christ for salvation.

The problem is some assume so much from their church background and teaching without actually
working it through, that it seems to make sense, but it means different things to the listeners depending
on their assumptions.

I do get a kick out of your philosophizing. lol

Now Jesus says simply, His family, His friends obey God, do what the Father tells them to do, that the
very act of loving, is the witness of who His people are.

More error here. He NEVER said anything about family or friends obeying God. He did say that those who LOVE Him will obey Him.

35> "By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
John 13:35

I suggest reviewing this verse with the claim above. They are not related.

21> Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
John 14:21

Yes, this verse supports my claim.

Now if a sheep is not loving and not obeying Jesus's commands, how can they claim to be a sheep
or even know God.

Many of His sheep (believers) are quite ignorant of His commands on how to live the Christian life. They are STILL His sheep.

Just like human parents who have stupid children. Regardless, they are still their parents' children.

4> The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Truth is not in every believer. Whereever there is ignorance, truth is lacking.

5> But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him:
6> Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
1 John 2:4-6

Of course. Those who claim to be in fellowship MUST live like it.

What I am sharing here is simple and plain. The promises are for those who walk in the fruit of the spirit
who are no longer friends to the world but friends to God.

None of the verses yet shared support this claim.

The promises of the Bible are for those who BELIEVE. But your views have tried to twist Scripture to teach that lifestyle is the means of salvation.

 

[FreeGrace]

My friend. Let us look at the passage from Hebrews
17> In the same way God wanted to demonstrate more clearly to the heirs of the promise that his purpose was unchangeable, and so he intervened with an oath,
18> so that we who have found refuge in him may find strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope set before us through two unchangeable things, since it is impossible for God to lie.
19> We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, sure and steadfast, which reaches inside behind the curtain,
20> where Jesus our forerunner entered on our behalf, since he became a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek. The Nature of Melchizedek’s Priesthood
Heb 6:17-20

The passage is saying God has provided two things.
1. A promise
2. An oath

So the logic is saying, God could change His mind, come out with another view point we were not aware of, except He spoke to the heirs of the promise and gave an oath and these bind Him.

It seems the phrase "impossible for God to lie" went over your head.

Why would anyone still want to argue with God's Word when it has been shown to them that their claim was false?

So the passage rather than denying God cannot choose to change His mind etc. He has
limited Himself in this particular circumstance with a promise and an oath.

What the Bible says very plainly is that it is impossible for God to lie. It's that simple and clear.

So unfortunately you have not to my mind proven your point, rather shown how true what I am saying
is from our perspective.

It appears to me that your mind has been closed.

And my friend, I am showing scripture all along and following forum rules.

You've made many statements and claims that were NOT supported by Scripture. And I've pointed out the verses that have been shared do NOT support your claims, as anyone can see by simply reading the claim and then the verse(s).

So I wonder what makes you feel that I have not.

I have addressed your claims and points individually and given explanations as to why I disagree.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said:
"Since the Bible uses the word, this is just a charge against the Bible about distorting "it all"."

Absolutes are dangerous things.

More philosophizing again, I see.

God's Word is dangerous. It reveals the evil secrets of men's hearts. It convicts the world of sin.

Is this a suggestion that God is not absolute? If it is, then your understanding of God Himself is woefully lacking.

Absolutes lead people to the end justifies the means. It is not how you get there that matters just arriving.

Please quit philosophizing. Let's just stay with what God's absolute Word says.

The wars generated by the reformation, and the propoganda caused the deaths of many millions.
Simplistic idealism, which makes things black and white, just creates division and justifies extreme
violence. Occasionally violence is necessary, when it stops violence.

All of this is irrelevant.

So impossible is a word like never, or always, needs to be used rarely and only in very specific
circumstances.

Like, for instance, when God's Word uses it.

11> I confirm my covenant with you: Never again will all living things be wiped out by the waters of a flood; never again will a flood destroy the earth.”
Genesis 9:11
The Lord limits Himself out of choice, He makes commitments He will not break.

iow, it is IMPOSSIBLE for God to lie.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said:
"The Kingdom is the Kingdom because it is God's Kingdom. For no other reason."

A egg is an egg. A face is a face.

What in the world does eggs and faces have to do with what I said??

Your comments seem bizarre to me, as they have no relevance to the discussion at all. Kinda leaves one with "egg on their face".

If you define something, by repeating it adds nothing more than a repeat.

But I didn't do what you did. I ADDED a very specific and important word, "God's" before kingdom.

 

[Jim Parker]

the big issue here Free Grace is that when you quote verses that point at salvation through faith ----those verses are mostly correct because we are saved ny faith. But the burning question is WAS THAT FAITH SAVING FAITH? Did the believer OBEY the Lord or continued to live out a sinful Ungodly life?
If that is the case then there was no faith in the first place. By stoutly and persistently denying the importance of obedience --as explained b y Christ Himself in His great commission to ALL His followewrs across the globe and gtime ---Matthew 28:18-20.

Matthew 28:18-20New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to OBEY everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Why is there so much resistance to Lord's commission? Why is it so hard to understand that the lord will NOT be there till the end of the ages with the believer UNLESS we do as He says in this verse---- OBEY.
Why did Christ WARNING in :
Revelation 2:23
I will strike her ( Jezebel's) children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.
Again Jesus repeats the importance of obedience in the following verse in

Revelation 2:26 ►

To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations

Jesus expects us to be obedient till the end of our lives and if I may say so, expects not just obedience but obedience to the point of death --- just as He did from the apostles who laid down their lives while following the Lord and spreading the good news of the gospel.

Also I wonder if faith alone saved why did Christ ask the rich man to give away all His riches to the poor and come and follow Him. He could have simply said Believe in me and you will be saved. But Jesus didn't say that. WHY?
Why did Paul caution with the words "WORK OUT your salvation with fear and trembling"?
The answer is obvious. paul knew they could LOSE IT! Their salvation. See my friend none of us knows who will be saved and who will NOT be saved. I do not know if I will be saved ---a born again believer in Lord Christ. But i do know one thing , if I persevere with my faith until the end ( or MY end) and be obedient and fruitful for the kingdom, the Lord will have mercy. That's all I can hope for. I cannot put a gun to Christ and command him to save me. Our sins are so many my friend, that we have no right to salvation. Its FREE GRACE of the Lord Jesus--- wherever believes in Him may have eternal life.
yet those who elect to believe but NOT OBEY will not see eternal life as John the Baptist reveals in John 3: 36 for God's wrath remains on that person
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
Brother, I do not know who will be saved and who will not be--- thats Christ's call
Revelation 20:15
Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

But I do know one thing, it's very dangerous for a believer who believes but does not obey the Lord or bear any fruit for the kingdom. We are not just believers in the word. we have to be DOERS as well. may God bless all people across the board and across the globe. may His will be done. May His wisdom come on us that we may see the truth as Jesus would like us to

 

[PeterJens]

More philosophizing again, I see.

Biblical Exegesis means “exposition or explanation.” Biblical exegesis involves the examination of a particular text of scripture in order to properly interpret it. Exegesis is a part of the process of hermeneutics, the science of interpretation.

Now you cannot explain or expound on the bible unless you look at language and how it is used.
You seem to not want to do this, so that is the end.

God bless you

 

[JLB]

On the scales of justification, righte

If we can't agree on the English translation, a myriad of them, then, yes, the bible cannot be trusted.

Let's try the Italian version since a singular you and a plural you exists. The clincher comes in at verse 16:

15 "Non sapete che i vostri corpi sono membra di Cristo? Prendero' dunque
le membra di Cristo e ne faro' membra di meretrice? Non sia mai !
16 O non sapete che CHI SI UNISCE a una meretrice forma un corpo solo?
I due formeranno, dice, una sola carne."
Source: E Dio Disse...La Bibbia
Nuovissima Versione San Paolo

The first "you" is plural.
But in verse 16 you see that it become personal and individual.
Chi si unisce means he who unites himself.
In God's eyes we are considered as individuals who make up the Body of Christ.

The Holy Spirit is in the body of the church and in each individual body.
Is this what the debate is about?

Sounds so nice in Italian.

 

[JLB]

Biblical Exegesis means “exposition or explanation.” Biblical exegesis involves the examination of a particular text of scripture in order to properly interpret it. Exegesis is a part of the process of hermeneutics, the science of interpretation.

Now you cannot explain or expound on the bible unless you look at language and how it is used.
You seem to not want to do this, so that is the end.

God bless you

Amen.

Good point.

 

[PeterJens]

It seems the phrase "impossible for God to lie" went over your head.

Some people want certainty, a precise definition that includes everything.
"God is love" To walk in Christ is to walk in love.

Now one could say these phrases include everything, yet also nothing.
It all relies on do you know the Living God, Jesus and what He meant by love.
Now once you know the answer to this, then the phrase God is love is eternal.

So for a whole group of people who believe they understand
"whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16
and find out they never knew Jesus and so did not believe in the actual Jesus and never
had eternal life, to them, God is lying.

Or if one says, to a sinner who has repented and works in Gods ways, "your sins are forgiven,"
yet they go on to sin more, and go back to evil, and are not forgiven, God says they will die.

So everything is bounded by definition, relationship and understanding.
My experience is, those who claim so much yet understand very little, believe those who do not
agree with them are just stupid, evil or blind.

Jesus put it like this
12> Then the disciples came to him and asked, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?"
13> He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots.
14> Leave them; they are blind guides. If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."
Matthew 15:12-14

39> Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind."
John 9:39

13> If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"
Luke 11:13

It is always obvious to those who see who is looking and who just wants the first answer they like.

 

[PeterJens]

Your comments seem bizarre to me, as they have no relevance to the discussion at all. Kinda leaves one with "egg on their face".

I like egg. Make of it what you will, God bless you

 

[FreeGrace]

I said:
"More philosophizing again, I see."

Biblical Exegesis means “exposition or explanation.”

But not just someone's opinion being "explained". This link provides all that is involved in biblical exegesis:
https://www.gotquestions.org/Biblical-exegesis.html

Now you cannot explain or expound on the bible unless you look at language and how it is used.
You seem to not want to do this, so that is the end.

Your claim here is totally baseless.

So our discussion should end.

 

[FreeGrace]

Some people want certainty, a precise definition that includes everything.

I don't cae what "some people" want. That isn't even relevant. Your statement seems to suggest that God isn't "certain".

"God is love" To walk in Christ is to walk in love.

No, the second statement relates to the believer's lifestyle of obedience. The first statement is a fact, without regard to one's liferstyle. iow, God is love regardless of how anyone lives their life.

Now one could say these phrases include everything, yet also nothing.

How is this important? What does it matter what one "could say"? People say a lot of things, mostly irrelevant or even in error. So why make such statements?

It all relies on do you know the Living God, Jesus and what He meant by love.
Now once you know the answer to this, then the phrase God is love is eternal.

I disagree, because the FACT that God is love IS eternal, regardless of whether one understands this or is ignorant of this.

So for a whole group of people who believe they understand "whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 and find out they never knew Jesus and so did not believe in the actual Jesus and never had eternal life, to them, God is lying.

Only idiots would think that God lies. So this "whole group of people" that is being referred to is immaterial to truth. I wonder why there is such a focus on what others think. Why not just focus on what the Bible says and means? That doesn't seem to be your focus at all.

Or if one says, to a sinner who has repented and works in Gods ways, "your sins are forgiven," yet they go on to sin more, and go back to evil, and are not forgiven, God says they will die.[/QUOTE]
Please explain what it means to "die" in your statement. By that, physically die, spiritually die, or eternally die?

So everything is bounded by definition, relationship and understanding.

Sounds like more philosophizing.

My experience is, those who claim so much yet understand very little, believe those who do not
agree with them are just stupid, evil or blind.

Sounds like much of the human race. Your point here?

Jesus put it like this
12> Then the disciples came to him and asked, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?"
13> He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots.
14> Leave them; they are blind guides. If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."
Matthew 15:12-14

What is the point here? What was Jesus teaching? Please explain verses when quoting them.

39> Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind."
John 9:39

Can you explain this verse?

13> If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"
Luke 11:13

Can you explain this verse?

It is always obvious to those who see who is looking and who just wants the first answer they like.

This kinda looks like some self promotion.