Justification and Sanctification

[ezra]

Last time.

If you are born again, and are empowered by His Spirit, why would you choose to do evil?

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

JLB

i am guessing your doing selective reading i answered the question one MORE TIME.

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

AGREED that is what we are suppose to be doing once AGAIN DO YOU DO THIS 24/7 where does Grace come in ? also ONCE AGAIN what does justified and sanctified have to do with this ..you seem to be tiptoeing around what i asked. your failing to explain your point.. my only concern as this is not a self working so we stay saved

 

[chessman]

Glad to see you have changed your view.

From the day I surrender to the Lord until today, my view has always been that He saves, not my self.

What can’t be denied is the truth that teaches us that every Christian will be judged according to their deeds.

What can’t be denied is your changing of these passages to suit your self. The word is “render” not ‘judged’.

Who will render to each one according to his works—​

Romans 2:6 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Romans 2:6&version=DLNT

This rendering comes to each person. It does not say ‘Christians will be judged”. Maybe you should look up what the word actually means. Never does it mean Judgment.

Sell seeking Christians who obey unrighteousness will receive God’s wrath on the Day of Judgement.

Christians don’t seek themselves.
People that seek salvation in themselves ARE self-seekers, not Christians.

 

[PeterJens]

Who reads the minor prophets? They talk about evil people, defrauding, murdering, lying, being lazy, not
caring or helping others. Now this is what is described as a sinful lifestyle, yet the people of God, who are
called righteous, follow Gods laws.

Now it appears some are happy to follow the argument that if you break one law it is like you have broken
them all so do not worry about breaking any of them, because they are only there to show what a big failure
you are and drive you to Christ, rather than walking in love is the eternal walk of Jesus.

Sanctification makes sense if the work of Christ is to transform us into His image, and mold us into one
body, in mind and spirit. Now again I have heard people say this is their worst nightmare, being of one
mind and heart, except we are talking about doing good and not evil, not literally agreeing about taste, likes
and dislikes which have no moral position for or against.

So to have a meaningful discussion, one has to agree the ground rules. Are we to walk like Jesus and what
does this mean? If this goal if foolish legalistic hypocracy, then it means those contributors are not going to
say nice things about those who aspire to follow Jesus, to them this is a deception. My position is simply
I know who Jesus is, what He did on a personal level, and His whole message and the apostles is the cross
makes the walk possible. If people find this hard to fathom, they need to spend more time being heartfelt and
open to love, truth and honesty, and dealing with sin and repenting of hurts and anger one holds against others.
It is because this is all that literally holds anyone back, which is what Jesus is declaring.

A pure heart will see God. Hungering after a righteous walk is the Kingdom of Heaven. It is not much clearer
than this. But for many their emotions will not let them go, and this goal is like a dream they can never partake
in. But my response, is their failure does not define truth or Christs victory, and we are called to press on, looking
upwards to our victorious King, Amen.

 

[FreeGrace]

There is no grace for believers who continue in sinful lifestyle despite accepting Christ as Lord and savior

Even in discipline, there is grace. We never get what we fully deserve.

Hebrews 6:6 ►
and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

What does this verse mean to you?

Why is it so difficult for today's Christian to understand that there is no grace without obedience ? Didn't James warn that faith without works is dead ?

What does that verse mean to you?

Didn't Christ warn that unless we do the will of Father God nobody will enter the kingdom of heaven ( Matthew 7: 18-28)
What about this warning of the Christ?

So the question is this: just what is the "will of God"? John 6:40 tells us. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

What about what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life in John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Do you believe this?

Matthew 18:3 ►

And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
It's very obvious to me that Jesus will deny entry to many who believed in Him but didn't choose to follow Him or change their sinful life style. Instead they started convincing each other that " we've been saved now that we believe "

If He does deny "entry" on the bais of not following Him, then that would make John 10:28 NOT TRUE. Is that really your position?

 

[FreeGrace]

I wish to add if no one can be saved by good works only, then I staunchly believe the Bible also strongly and repeatedly reminds us that NEITHER CAN mere faith without good works save us.

I would like to (maybe be the first one) to introduce you to what Jesus said about how to be saved, meaning have eternal life:
John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 - These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Acts 16:31 - believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

And if this is NOT being taught by pastors and teachers then I would go so far as to say they're teaching HERESY. It deeply disturbs me how are they missing such a vital point of prudent Christian doctrine --OBEDIENCE , huh?

The heresy is to preach obedient in order to either get saved or to maintain salvation.

Mph 2:8,9
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

We are saved throughf faith, not by works. It couldn't be said any more clear than this.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said:
"Any believer who is grieving or quenching the Spirit has chosen to do evil. And the Bible makes it clear that believers are to STOP doing it.

Your question reveals a serious lack of understanding of spiritual growth."

More opinion

That's why I posted to reveal the error of your opinion.

 

[PeterJens]

I am interested in the language used by some.
Error in an opinion? Opinions are what people hold, they are a question of compromises and balances
taken. They represent a history of someones life, and need to be treated carefully.

It is easy to say that opinion is wrong etc. But maybe we mean, this appears to be the truth or a non-biased
view that would not lead to this opinion. Do you agree or not?

When God sees how poorly we grasp many things, He does not come and put me right, He leads me through
experiences and interactions which change my opinions. I think this is often our mistake, to not realise our
emotional histories mold how we see the world, and nothing is truly isolated or unaffected.

So polarised discussions often cause a rise in anger, and frustration, which indicates something is going wrong,
because the Lords ways are ones of love and peace. Now this is what I am trying to express, maybe not
in the best ways, but I am troubled when people talk like they have arrived and the other party should just submit
and accept their wisdom and position as the position. Funnily these very same people call others arrogant, proud,
blind and opinionated etc. It is ironic how we get trapped by the very things we often claim to be free from, lol.

 

[Douglas Summers]

I see it too. Mostly Christians are not interested in growing in Jesus.

1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

They have no "desire".

But the desire comes from God. And He is not giving it. Why not?

No, but when they are in personal crises and true believers, they will be quick to call on Him. But many have fallen out of fellowship with with the Lord with unconfessed sin. They need to walk with God. I go nowhere without Him. But as a young man and a Christian, I had much to confess before I was upright with Him in Fellowship. God is merciful.

 

[GodsGrace]

" THE requirement Of remaining in the Kingdom".

Wondering,
Isn't this just another way of saying you can lose your salvation if you dont do the "works" that YOU feel that are necessary after you are saved?
Or are you not saying that "being in the kingdom" is also the same as being Saved and remaining saved?
Am i missing something?
I think my IQ is turned on, so, im pretty sure i gotcha message in that comment.
And in that case, if that is what you are saying..... then you are stating that works and not Grace ALONE, is what keeps you saved.
= Welcome To what the POPE teaches.
And the problem with that perspective is very simple....
"Grace", is , IS, The Blood of Jesus and the Atonement, (GRACE IS JESUS) exactly the same as (ETERNAL LIFE IS JESUS) and God does not offer anything else that can redeem us or save us OR keep up saved OR give us eternal life.

There is no scripture ever given by the Holy Spirit that says....."once you are saved, you must do (anything) to stay saved".
This doctrine does not exit in the bible, or in the mind of God, or in the finished work of Jesus on the Cross, but it definitely exists like a wildfire in the minds of a lot of people who talk endlessly about "works."..........>.
And Yes, James says your "faith without works is dead", but he does not say your salvation is lost without works.
However, Thats what NT heretics say, and James isn't one of those.
So, no need for anyone to recompose the meaning of the scriptures for the sake of trying to refute OSAS.
Which, of course, always finds us at the same disconnect, which is......how can anything such as your works or deeds, ...which cannot and do not save you before you are SAVED by God through Christ,.....how can they (works) then gain such importance to some people that they think that what cant saved you before you Trusted in Jesus, can now cause you to no longer be saved if you dont do them?
This is not only Illogical, its kinda crazy., actually...
"Well, i know that i cant be saved by works (before im saved) , but, i can be lost if i dont to X, Y, Z, and endure to the end, and hope to God i never lose my faith, after im saved"""".... = ummmmmmmmmm, TILT".
See all that?
Its nonsense.
Theological tinker toy self righteousness nonsense.

So, the issue with all this adding works to the blood of Jesus as a sort of "cross helper", is that once you go there, you have now discounted and discredited the finished work of Jesus on the Cross, = as ALL that is necessary for our Salvation.
And so, just rip John 14:6 out of the bible, as apparently when Jesus said He is THE WAY, then some people would argue..."no, not necessarily Jesus, after all, what about WORKS".

You mentioned the Pope and it made me stop reading.
The Pope may teach this, but I know most Christian churches do.
This idea of not having to do works is a NEW idea. It's poison.
All Jesus did was tell us to do works.
Find me one verse where Jesus says we only need to have faith and DO NOTHING and we'll still be saved. The only place is in John 6:29 where Jesus says that this is the work of God, that we BELIEVE in Him whom HE has sent.
Fine. But then, please explain the word believe and what it means in the way that Jesus used it, or IOW, in koine Greek which Jesus MIGHT have knows, but which certainly was used to write the N.T. It's saying that we are to be committed to God's works, which are all the things Jesus told us to DO.
Feed the hungry, clothe the nakes, honor our parents, worship God, etc.
Also negatives must be included.

As you know, I do believe that salvation can be lost. If it could not be lost, Paul and Jesus and all the other writers would not have spent so much time telling us to be careful so as not to loose it. I refer you to only this scripture (but there are many):
John 15:1-6
Jesus is saying that He is the vine and Father is the vine dresser.
Father prunes the branches that bear fruit, so that they may bear even more.
The branches that do not bear fruit, Father takes away. He removes them.

Jesus tells His followers that they are clean because of Him and the word which He has spoken. John 15:3

Jesus tells them that they must abide (abide, present tense) in Him, so that they could bear fruit. By ourselves we can do nothing. We must ABIDE in Christ.
What happens if we decide not to abide in Him any longer?

John 15:6
"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."
NASB

I'm not even saying the buring means hell, but it certainly means destruction.
The branches that do not bear fruit are destroyed and burned up.

How do you get around that?

Jesus is eternal life, as long as you are IN Jesus. And if you are in Jesus then he does require you and us to do as He commanded.

You mention the Kingdom of God. Jesus set up the Kingdom of God right here on earth. A Kingdom has a ruler: Jesus
A Kingdom has a population living within it: Us
A Kingdom has rules that must be kept: Jesus made the rules.

If you don't keep the rules, you cannot stay in the Kingdom.

The Holy Spirit led Paul to write many passages that say exactly how we are to remain saved. For instance, What does Romans 12:1 mean to you? We are to present our bodies a living sacrifice. We are to sacrifice ourselves in every way to God, when we go to work, or school, when we do our every day things, we are to do them as unto God, for God. Isn't this doing something for God? Can we call this works or good deeds?

Osas has been refuted by the church and still is refuted by most of the church.
Only Calvin in 1,500 came up with this idea of eternal security. It was not in the belief system of the church till then. Gnostics believed this to an extent. But Gnostics are a heretical group. Apparently they are still around today.


I'll post this especially for those reading along, but there is much much more...

What did the early church teach about salvation and eternal security? Many of the church fathers living from the first to the third centuries believed and taught conditional security. They taught that a person was saved by faith through the grace of God but they had to live a life dedicated to Christ until the end. Let’s examine some of the quotes from their writings. Justin Martyr wrote around 160 A.D.: “I hold further, that those of you who have confessed and known this man to be Christ, yet who have gone back for some reason to the legal dispensation [i.e., the Mosaic law], and have denied that this man is Christ , and have not
repented before death— you will by no means be saved.” [Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 1 page 218] “If you do not guard yourself against [anger], you and your household will lose all hope of salvation.”
[Hermas written around 150 and is quoted from Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 2 page 23 as recorded in A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs, David W. Bercot published by Hendrickson Publishers, 1998] Irenaeus
wrote around 180 A.D. “Those who do not obey Him, being disinherited by Him, have ceased to be His sons.”[Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 1 page 525 as recorded in A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs, David W. Bercot published by Hendrickson Publishers, 1998] Clement of Alexandria around 195 A.D. wrote: “It is neither the faith, nor the love, nor the hope nor the endurance of one day; rather, ‘he that endures to the end will be saved.’”[Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 2 page 600 as recorded in A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs, David W. Bercot published by Hendrickson Publishers, 1998]

source: http://mfchase.net/Documents/Salvation_and_Eternal_Security.pdf

I fail to understand why you are against good works.
They cannot save you all by themselves, but they surely will keep you saved.
Since works are a sign of your salvation and your desire to do good deeds for the sake of God who cannot be on earth to do them for you, I would think that you'd be happy to do them and to expouse them as necessary for our final salvation.

Jesus Himself said He expects us to ENDURE.
Mathew 10:22

 

[Kidron]

You mentioned the Pope and it made me stop reading.
The Pope may teach this, but I know most Christian churches do.
This idea of not having to do works is a NEW idea. It's poison.

-
Yes, i can tell that you are telling the truth.
You obviously didnt read what i wrote.
However, if you actually do read what i wrote, and want to respond to what i actually wrote, and not just restate your opinion about how works are the 2nd part of Grace, then if i see it, i'll respond.

God bless,

K

 

[ezra]

What did the early church teach about salvation and eternal security? Many of the church fathers living from the first to the third centuries believed and taught conditional security. They taught that a person was saved by faith through the grace of God but they had to live a life dedicated to Christ until the end.

honestly the early Church fathers like the rest of us did the best they could by studying scriptures ..not sure why people say saved by FAITH ? through Grace . when Paul wrote saved by grace through faith .. a person can have all kinds of faith.but unless Grace and truth comes to them it does them no good. it didnt take this long to turn to into the osas osnas posting . read very carefully when i post this.....{ our salvation is more secure than what many want to admit } it is kept by the power of God what did peter write ? a living hope... i did a study on this once and a author said it this was a living hope by a living God ..amen
1 peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
there is just one of the many promises of our security .. the age old debate can a person walk away and be lost ...i dont know i have read scriptures that seems to point to that. there is no place in scripture that tells us if we fall into sin and continue in it .that will say its ok you will just lose your rewards.... your rewards for works.. that is in doing work for the Lord will save you. being saved is a type work a work in progress .
we certainly are to to live a life dedicated to Christ until the end. that is our satisfaction he first saves us sets us apart step cleans us up{baby steps} 1. of living the life . step 2. we are to grown in the grace and knowledge .{.wip } .it takes a lot of growing pains. falls scrapes bangs etc. each time we fail we go to him and he picks us up. repent .we hopefully learn from our error . this is progressive sanctification . should be coming off the milk eating strong meat. . 3 ultimate finial we crossed the finish line .. we made it home paul called it a crown of righteousness .. this is not a correction of what wondering posted but just a comment .
this is a good forum butttttttttt there seems to be corrective spirit as in my doctrine is more correct than yours.. heck i just like to disagree and hash out our disagreement ..i learn and everyone else can learn... AINT NO ONE that has the perfect theology . we all have studied and interpreted the scriptures the best we can

 

[GodsGrace]

honestly the early Church fathers like the rest of us did the best they could by studying scriptures ..not sure why people say saved by FAITH ? through Grace . when Paul wrote saved by grace through faith .. a person can have all kinds of faith.but unless Grace and truth comes to them it does them no good. it didnt take this long to turn to into the osas osnas posting . read very carefully when i post this.....{ our salvation is more secure than what many want to admit } it is kept by the power of God what did peter write ? a living hope... i did a study on this once and a author said it this was a living hope by a living God ..amen
1 peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
there is just one of the many promises of our security .. the age old debate can a person walk away and be lost ...i dont know i have read scriptures that seems to point to that. there is no place in scripture that tells us if we fall into sin and continue in it .that will say its ok you will just lose your rewards.... your rewards for works.. that is in doing work for the Lord will save you. being saved is a type work a work in progress .
we certainly are to to live a life dedicated to Christ until the end. that is our satisfaction he first saves us sets us apart step cleans us up{baby steps} 1. of living the life . step 2. we are to grown in the grace and knowledge .{.wip } .it takes a lot of growing pains. falls scrapes bangs etc. each time we fail we go to him and he picks us up. repent .we hopefully learn from our error . this is progressive sanctification . should be coming off the milk eating strong meat. . 3 ultimate finial we crossed the finish line .. we made it home paul called it a crown of righteousness .. this is not a correction of what wondering posted but just a comment .
this is a good forum butttttttttt there seems to be corrective spirit as in my doctrine is more correct than yours.. heck i just like to disagree and hash out our disagreement ..i learn and everyone else can learn... AINT NO ONE that has the perfect theology . we all have studied and interpreted the scriptures the best we can

Ezra,
I don't think I have perfect theology, but I don't see anywhere in the N.T. that absolutely guarantees my salvation UNLESS I abide in Christ till the day I die.

I don't mind how you post because you always make a point of having to obey God even if the belief is in osas. But I've read straight out statements that once one is saved, he is saved even if he returns to a life of sin!

Do you agree with that? And that is the danger that is run by telling someone they need to accept Jesus one time and they're saved forever. This is just not true. The bible warns us to be careful and to hold tight to our faith.

Oh. Re faith saving us and not grace. God is a God of love. HE IS GRACE. And He IS love. His grace is falling on everyone, even the unsaved so that they might get to know Him. But it is through our faith that we are saved.
HIS grace and mercy, OUR faith.
We are saved BY grace THROUGH faith.
Kidron likes to say that it is Jesus that saves us, not faith.
We each understand our Christianity in very personal ways.

 

[GodsGrace]

-
Yes, i can tell that you are telling the truth.
You obviously didnt read what i wrote.
However, if you actually do read what i wrote, and want to respond to what i actually wrote, and not just restate your opinion about how works are the 2nd part of Grace, then if i see it, i'll respond.

God bless,

K

K
After I stopped, I did read the whole post.
What didn't I understand??
I think I answered it...
Maybe not?

 

[GodsGrace]

" THE requirement Of remaining in the Kingdom".

Wondering,
Isn't this just another way of saying you can lose your salvation if you dont do the "works" that YOU feel that are necessary after you are saved?
Or are you not saying that "being in the kingdom" is also the same as being Saved and remaining saved?
Am i missing something?
I think my IQ is turned on, so, im pretty sure i gotcha message in that comment.
And in that case, if that is what you are saying..... then you are stating that works and not Grace ALONE, is what keeps you saved.
= Welcome To what the POPE teaches.
And the problem with that perspective is very simple....
"Grace", is , IS, The Blood of Jesus and the Atonement, (GRACE IS JESUS) exactly the same as (ETERNAL LIFE IS JESUS) and God does not offer anything else that can redeem us or save us OR keep up saved OR give us eternal life.

There is no scripture ever given by the Holy Spirit that says....."once you are saved, you must do (anything) to stay saved".
This doctrine does not exit in the bible, or in the mind of God, or in the finished work of Jesus on the Cross, but it definitely exists like a wildfire in the minds of a lot of people who talk endlessly about "works."..........>.
And Yes, James says your "faith without works is dead", but he does not say your salvation is lost without works.
However, Thats what NT heretics say, and James isn't one of those.
So, no need for anyone to recompose the meaning of the scriptures for the sake of trying to refute OSAS.
Which, of course, always finds us at the same disconnect, which is......how can anything such as your works or deeds, ...which cannot and do not save you before you are SAVED by God through Christ,.....how can they (works) then gain such importance to some people that they think that what cant saved you before you Trusted in Jesus, can now cause you to no longer be saved if you dont do them?
This is not only Illogical, its kinda crazy., actually...
"Well, i know that i cant be saved by works (before im saved) , but, i can be lost if i dont to X, Y, Z, and endure to the end, and hope to God i never lose my faith, after im saved"""".... = ummmmmmmmmm, TILT".
See all that?
Its nonsense.
Theological tinker toy self righteousness nonsense.

So, the issue with all this adding works to the blood of Jesus as a sort of "cross helper", is that once you go there, you have now discounted and discredited the finished work of Jesus on the Cross, = as ALL that is necessary for our Salvation.
And so, just rip John 14:6 out of the bible, as apparently when Jesus said He is THE WAY, then some people would argue..."no, not necessarily Jesus, after all, what about WORKS".

Kidron,
I reread this and there is just one thing I can add to my reply to you.
I'm sorry if you feel I didn't reply to all of it.

You ask how is it that works cannot save us,
but they can keep us saved.
Here's how:

For a non-believer not to do good deeds, or works, for God is totally irrelevant.
No matter how many good works they do, they are not saved, so their good works count for nothing.

Once a person becomes born again, their works do count for something.
We are not in the family of God. We are members of His Kingdom. Now He expects us to keep His rules. Persons that do not keep rules are not allowed to stay in clubs, jobs, or even in the Kingdom of God, which is like a big club which God has instituted.

Jesus Himself said that we will be judged by our deeds.
John 5:28-29
There's no getting around this. It's clear and plain and Jesus Himself has said it.
Once we are saved, we are required to do good works.

Could you find a verse that says we don't?

 

[JLB]

i am guessing your doing selective reading i answered the question one MORE TIME.

Okay go ahead and quote the post and number where you answered my question which asks -

If you are born again, and are empowered by His Spirit, why would you choose to do evil?


JLB

 

[JLB]

I said:
"Any believer who is grieving or quenching the Spirit has chosen to do evil. And the Bible makes it clear that believers are to STOP doing it.

Your question reveals a serious lack of understanding of spiritual growth."

That's why I posted to reveal the error of your opinion.

Another post with no scripture to answer mine which says -

God, “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

Here is who the Bible says will receive eternal life.

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

Your personal attacks against me will not change this fact.

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8



JLB

 

[JLB]

From the day I surrender to the Lord until today, my view has always been that He saves, not my self.

Amen. We are born again by faith in Him.

 

[ezra]

But I've read straight out statements that once one is saved, he is saved even if he returns to a life of sin!

Do you agree with that? And that is the danger that is run by telling someone they need to accept Jesus one time and they're saved forever. This is just not true. The bible warns us to be careful and to hold tight to our faith.

there are many warnings in the Bible o foolish Galatians who has deceived you . i am going to give you a honest answer butt { my post was not in correction toward you especially on the perfect theology ) i have met those who sure seemed like it my answer -that once one is saved, he is saved even if he returns to a life of sin!- to be honest i am not the judge so i donrt want to find out.. there are those who will say yes.... i do believe in a type of eternal security..but when asked about returning back to sinful life style paul addressed this in romans when asked more or less should we live in sin because we are under Grace .. his reply NO .the Bible says no man putting his hand to the plow and looking back is fit for the Kingdom of heaven . Jesus said remember LOTS WIFE . i know several who use to serve the Lord and they no longer do.. i know a preacher he was hard core you mess up and fail to correct your going to hell. i do question was they ever saved..i dunno.. but no place in scripture will read its ok and you will still make it.. i have studied on this for a long time .i really hope eternal security is true for those who have returned back and not repented ... i will be just as honest with you as i can

 

[JLB]

What can’t be denied is your changing of these passages to suit your self. The word is “render” not ‘judged’.

Who will render to each one according to his works—Romans 2:6 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Romans 2:6&version=DLNT

This rendering comes to each person. It does not say ‘Christians will be judged”. Maybe you should look up what the word actually means. Never does it mean Judgment.

Oh I see, you are not understanding the context.

Here let me help you.

• those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? Romans 2:3

Again

• But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:3-8

God will render Judgement to each Christian as we all stand before His throne to be judged according to our deeds.

Eternal life or eternal death is the outcome of this Judgement.


JLB

 

[ezra]

Okay go ahead and quote the post and number where you answered my question which asks -

If you are born again, and are empowered by His Spirit, why would you choose to do evil?


JLB

psssttt your getting annoying after i gave you my answer so NO i am not going to answer your legalistic question AGAIN