Justified by His Blood alone !

[beloved57]

All for whom Christ died have been Justified by that fact alone, because it is by Grace through the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus , that is in His Blood Rom 3:24
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Eph 1:7
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Redemption and Justification come through His Blood and not by Faith in His Blood.

And we know all men without exception are not Justified, so Christ death wasn't for all without exception!

 

[beloved57]

Heb 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Those Christ died for, have by His Death alone, hath been made Perfect, yes whiter than snow, free from every spot and wrinkle before God!

 

[WIP]

Seems we need to now understand who are "them that are sanctified."

 

[FreeGrace]

All for whom Christ died have been Justified by that fact alone, because it is by Grace through the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus , that is in His Blood Rom 3:24
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Eph 1:7
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Redemption and Justification come through His Blood and not by Faith in His Blood.

And we know all men without exception are not Justified, so Christ death wasn't for all without exception!

Since the Bible quite plainly SAYS that Christ died for "all" and never even suggests that His death was on behalf of only "some", this OP has gotten off to a false start.

Because Christ died for all, if justification and forgiveness were by His death alone, as the OP claims, then all will be saved. Period.

Which is patently untrue.

So, this Calvinist's position actually supports universalism. Which is patently untrue.

We know what the Bible teaches about being forgiven of our sins: Acts 10:43 - All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

That is clear enough.

And we know what the Bible teaches about being justified: Rom 5:1 - Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

That is clear enough.

What is also quite clear is that the views of Calvinism actually removes the need for faith to be saved, justified, or forgiven.

For them, because they are one of the "elect", God just grants all that to them. Including faith.

iow, faith is found in the same package as salvation.

But the Bible teaches the actual order of things: For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God Eph 2:8

So, it is man's action of believing that fulfills God's requirement for whom to save.

In fact the Bible clearly teaches who God is pleased to save: For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 1 Cor 1:21

The key to salvation, having eternal life, being forgiven and justified is found in believing in Jesus Christ. Not in His death.

Yes, His death was certainly necessary. But since Christ died for everyone, it is believing in Him that results in these things.

2 Cor 5:14,15 - 14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. 15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

Heb 2:9 - But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

So, the Bible has 3 verses that SAY that His death was universal, not limited to only a certain group or class.

 

[FreeGrace]

Seems we need to now understand who are "them that are sanctified."

The only possible meaning from the OP is just those who will believe, which ignores the clear verses that plainly state that Christ died for all.

If the OP was true, then everyone goes to heaven, which we all know is not true.

And Calvinism cannot provide any verse that states that Christ's death was limited only to some.

It's just that their theology (TULIP) logically demands that His death was limited in scope.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Since the Bible quite plainly SAYS that Christ died for "all" and never even suggests that His death was on behalf of only "some", this OP has gotten off to a false start.

Because Christ died for all, if justification and forgiveness were by His death alone, as the OP claims, then all will be saved. Period.

Which is patently untrue.

So, this Calvinist's position actually supports universalism. Which is patently untrue.

We know what the Bible teaches about being forgiven of our sins: Acts 10:43 - All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

That is clear enough.

And we know what the Bible teaches about being justified: Rom 5:1 - Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

That is clear enough.

What is also quite clear is that the views of Calvinism actually removes the need for faith to be saved, justified, or forgiven.

For them, because they are one of the "elect", God just grants all that to them. Including faith.

iow, faith is found in the same package as salvation.

But the Bible teaches the actual order of things: For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God Eph 2:8

So, it is man's action of believing that fulfills God's requirement for whom to save.

In fact the Bible clearly teaches who God is pleased to save: For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 1 Cor 1:21

The key to salvation, having eternal life, being forgiven and justified is found in believing in Jesus Christ. Not in His death.

Yes, His death was certainly necessary. But since Christ died for everyone, it is believing in Him that results in these things.

2 Cor 5:14,15 - 14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. 15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

Heb 2:9 - But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

So, the Bible has 3 verses that SAY that His death was universal, not limited to only a certain group or class.

I don't think bible verses contradict other bible verses. So I really am causious about logic that uses one verse not just to counter another theology, but also counters another bible verse. If it says Jesus died for all, or came to save all of mankind, then that is a verse worth considering instead of correcting.

Also I want to point out the verse quoted Eph 2:8, sounds like God gave both grace and faith to us. As a gift and not from ourselves. I don't mean to point this out to disagree with our tasks in faith, which include having faith and holding on to it, but I just want you to understand the verse as it is worded, without making it say something that it doesn't say.
-----------------------------

Slight correction aside I want to add how I think your right. Jesus came to save all mankind, but not all mankind is saved because of what we know of those who aren't saved and the real threats and dangers of hell would have no effect if everyone received the same crown. This dynamic reminds me of the parable of the king's feast. Mathew 22:1-14.

22 Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son.3 He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.

4 “Then he sent some more servants and said, ‘Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’

5 “But they paid no attention and went off—one to his field, another to his business. 6 The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. 7 The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.

8 “Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. 9 So go to the street cornersand invite to the banquet anyone you find.’ 10 So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, the bad as well as the good, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.

11 “But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 12 He asked, ‘How did you get in here without wedding clothes, friend?’ The man was speechless.

13 “Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

14 “For many are invited, but few are chosen."

I don't honestly know if this explains how Jesus came for everyone but not everyone is saved, or if this condricts that Jesus came to save us all. But it's my best understanding to try and understand that Jesus came to save everyone, and also that the threat of hell is very real and not to be taken granted for thinking we are all saved.

 

[beloved57]

Since the Bible quite plainly SAYS that Christ died for "all" and never even suggests that His death was on behalf of only "some", this OP has gotten off to a false start.

Because Christ died for all, if justification and forgiveness were by His death alone, as the OP claims, then all will be saved. Period.

Which is patently untrue.

So, this Calvinist's position actually supports universalism. Which is patently untrue.

We know what the Bible teaches about being forgiven of our sins: Acts 10:43 - All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

That is clear enough.

And we know what the Bible teaches about being justified: Rom 5:1 - Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

That is clear enough.

What is also quite clear is that the views of Calvinism actually removes the need for faith to be saved, justified, or forgiven.

For them, because they are one of the "elect", God just grants all that to them. Including faith.

iow, faith is found in the same package as salvation.

But the Bible teaches the actual order of things: For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God Eph 2:8

So, it is man's action of believing that fulfills God's requirement for whom to save.

In fact the Bible clearly teaches who God is pleased to save: For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 1 Cor 1:21

The key to salvation, having eternal life, being forgiven and justified is found in believing in Jesus Christ. Not in His death.

Yes, His death was certainly necessary. But since Christ died for everyone, it is believing in Him that results in these things.

2 Cor 5:14,15 - 14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. 15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

Heb 2:9 - But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

So, the Bible has 3 verses that SAY that His death was universal, not limited to only a certain group or class.

All can mean some. Now, those all Christ died for are Justified freely by His Blood. Do you deny that ?

 

[beloved57]

Seems we need to now understand who are "them that are sanctified."

Those who Christ died for Heb 10:10

 

[beloved57]

Free Grace

So, it is man's action of believing that fulfills God's requirement for whom to save.

That is a false statement. Please show us the scripture that says that.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

All for whom Christ died have been Justified by that fact alone, because it is by Grace through the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus , that is in His Blood Rom 3:24
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Eph 1:7
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Redemption and Justification come through His Blood and not by Faith in His Blood.

And we know all men without exception are not Justified, so Christ death wasn't for all without exception!

I think it is every Christian's hope to be among those saintified. But we are warned also that not everyone who says "Lord, Lord," are really of Jesus's flock. And even Paul warned the early church of wolves in sheeps clothing. Those sanctified by Jesus's blood, chosen by God's grace, and given the faith and heart to be God's flock are not known by us. we can't judge and say who is who isn't saved now or will be saved later in their lives. Still we have hope and caution. Hope that we are among the saved.

 

[beloved57]

Since the Bible quite plainly SAYS that Christ died for "all" and never even suggests that His death was on behalf of only "some", this OP has gotten off to a false start.

Because Christ died for all, if justification and forgiveness were by His death alone, as the OP claims, then all will be saved. Period.

Which is patently untrue.

So, this Calvinist's position actually supports universalism. Which is patently untrue.

We know what the Bible teaches about being forgiven of our sins: Acts 10:43 - All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

That is clear enough.

And we know what the Bible teaches about being justified: Rom 5:1 - Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

That is clear enough.

What is also quite clear is that the views of Calvinism actually removes the need for faith to be saved, justified, or forgiven.

For them, because they are one of the "elect", God just grants all that to them. Including faith.

iow, faith is found in the same package as salvation.

But the Bible teaches the actual order of things: For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God Eph 2:8

So, it is man's action of believing that fulfills God's requirement for whom to save.

In fact the Bible clearly teaches who God is pleased to save: For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 1 Cor 1:21

The key to salvation, having eternal life, being forgiven and justified is found in believing in Jesus Christ. Not in His death.

Yes, His death was certainly necessary. But since Christ died for everyone, it is believing in Him that results in these things.

2 Cor 5:14,15 - 14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. 15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

Heb 2:9 - But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

So, the Bible has 3 verses that SAY that His death was universal, not limited to only a certain group or class.

Have you studied all those scriptures and their context ? That's your responsibility since you bring them up. Now please explain each verse and its context to show how they invalidate the Op.

 

[beloved57]

FreeGrace

So, it is man's action of believing that fulfills God's requirement for whom to save

.

This promotes salvation by works, by what a person does. This denies Salvation by what Christ did alone ! This statement brings glory to man,or its a attempt to.

 

[beloved57]

I don't think bible verses contradict other bible verses. So I really am causious about logic that uses one verse not just to counter another theology, but also counters another bible verse. If it says Jesus died for all, or came to save all of mankind, then that is a verse worth considering instead of correcting.

Also I want to point out the verse quoted Eph 2:8, sounds like God gave both grace and faith to us. As a gift and not from ourselves. I don't mean to point this out to disagree with our tasks in faith, which include having faith and holding on to it, but I just want you to understand the verse as it is worded, without making it say something that it doesn't say.
-----------------------------

Slight correction aside I want to add how I think your right. Jesus came to save all mankind, but not all mankind is saved because of what we know of those who aren't saved and the real threats and dangers of hell would have no effect if everyone received the same crown. This dynamic reminds me of the parable of the king's feast. Mathew 22:1-14.

22 Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son.3 He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.

4 “Then he sent some more servants and said, ‘Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’

5 “But they paid no attention and went off—one to his field, another to his business. 6 The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. 7 The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.

8 “Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. 9 So go to the street cornersand invite to the banquet anyone you find.’ 10 So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, the bad as well as the good, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.

11 “But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 12 He asked, ‘How did you get in here without wedding clothes, friend?’ The man was speechless.

13 “Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

14 “For many are invited, but few are chosen."

I don't honestly know if this explains how Jesus came for everyone but not everyone is saved, or if this condricts that Jesus came to save us all. But it's my best understanding to try and understand that Jesus came to save everyone, and also that the threat of hell is very real and not to be taken granted for thinking we are all saved.

Did you read the op and understand the points made with scripture?

 

[Sinthesis]

All can mean some. Now, those all Christ died for are Justified freely by His Blood. Do you deny that ?

All includes some. Some doesn't include all. Why do you believe 'all men without exception are not justified'?

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Did you read the op and understand the points made with scripture?

My first comment was directed to FreeGrace. My second comment, comment #10, was directed to the OP. I think I have a working grasp of the scripture you quoted. Not a scholar or taught the ways how scripture is best understood. So yes I understand those scriptures as part of my hope in Jesus's sacrifice for us. It is also part of a burdened understanding that I have hopes and worries for those I know and love who aren't Christian, and even for myself if I am not chosen.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[beloved57]

All includes some. Some doesn't include all. Why do you believe 'all men without exception are not justified'?

The bible call

All includes some. Some doesn't include all. Why do you believe 'all men without exception are not justified'?

2 Pet 2:9
The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
Some are unjust.

Did you read and understand the points in the Op ?

 

[reba]

Admin here
Stop the thinly veiled calling one another liars.. Instead of saying 'that is not true" etc you could say i disagree ..
Closing the thread waiting for moderator review is an option ... lets not cause that to happen

Do not reply to this post Per 2.14 of the TOS

 

[for_his_glory]

Those who Christ died for Heb 10:10

These are they whom were once Spiritually dead, but now made Spiritually alive by the one sacrifice of Christ who died for all who by faith receive God's free gift of grace that pardons our sins when we repent of them and made alive through the Spiritual rebirth so we will see the Kingdom of God and have eternal life with the Father.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

2Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[beloved57]

Edited ... reba

 

[Kidron]

I don't think bible verses contradict other bible verses.

Also I want to point out the verse quoted Eph 2:8, sounds like God gave both grace and faith to us. As a gift and not from ourselves. I don't mean to point this out to disagree with our tasks in faith, which include having faith and holding on to it,

.

I don't think bible verses contradict other bible verses.
-
Bible verses dont contradict each other if you remember 3 things.
( and notice how they all tie together.)

1.) God deals differently with "man" at different times..
Old Testament, New........No Law before Moses, .....Jesus satisfied the Law and we are no longer under it....(Grace)
Jewish water baptism in Acts 2:38, ... while later Paul preaching only "believe on the Lord and tho shalt be saved"
Jesus is not dying for anyone's sins before the Cross lifted Him up to do it that began the "New Testament" and 2nd Covenant.
WE are now "redeemed from the curse of the Law", in the Old Testament, (1st Covenant).
So, thats a small sample of God dealing differently with mankind.. at different times.

2.) Keep in mind that a book like the Acts of the Apostles, is a progressive revelation...over time, and this is why a message that Peter preached in Acts 2:38, is not what Jesus taught Paul as the Gospel of Grace. (Justification by Faith).
So, Peter cant preach in Acts 2 what he didnt know about yet that Paul taught later, and Paul does not preach what Peter preached in Acts 2 because God's continuing REVELATION regarding "Grace Through Faith" came to Paul much later and was not given to Peter in Act 2:38.

3.) Apostles throughout the New Testament, didnt all know about the revelation of the Grace of God at the same time, and so, their epistles reflect what they KNEW but not necessarily all they would come to know LATER when they wrote them.


Also I want to point out the verse quoted Eph 2:8, sounds like God gave both grace and faith to us. As a gift and not from ourselves. I don't mean to point this out to disagree with our tasks in faith, which include having faith and holding on to it,


There is a lot of misconceptions about "holding onto your faith, or you go to hell if you dont".
This is really bad and really dangerous theology, as it removes what we are to believe that has ALREADY saved US, which is Jesus and his sacrifice and God saving us when we TRUST IN CHRIST...., and falsely refocuses our faith on our faith so that our salvation becomes...."im saving myself to the end.... by confessing my sins and holding onto my faith".
God said that the work He began in you, (redemption) that HE would complete it Himself"... Philippians 1:6
We are told that "but according to HIS MERCY = HE SAVED US"....and that is not your faith or your confessing your sins, is it?
Hebrews 12: 2 says: that Jesus is the "AUTHOR and FINISHER of our Faith:....and not US doing that to try to saves ourselves.
Faith is a transmission device that allows God to release Salvation to us, and following the new birth, God and Christ take it from there.
This is why Jesus The Christ is in heaven right now "making intercession for YOU".
Very important to realize this, or you'll end up trying to save yourself which is a Cross that Only Jesus was sent to bear.