What's new
  • This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn more.
  • Do not use Chrome Incognito when registering as it freezes the registration page.
  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • Guest, We are excited to announce a new era for ChristianForums.net! Please visit our Community Message!

Kids Fighting Back

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
15,483
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
#1
Should our kids and grand kids fight back in school or the play ground if they are being bullied ? Don't our children have the right to protect themselves. In the old days our parents would make us fight back. Many kids who did not fight back ended up dead or hurt real bad. I am talking about our kids protecting themselves not starting fights. And many times when the kids go and tell teachers or adults they get picked on even worse, and now they are being called little girls for running and telling. Now the bulling gets worse. I think that in some cases a kid has to stand up for him or herself and knock somebodies block off.
 
Joined
Oct 23, 2010
Messages
7,699
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
#2
I'd love to say "don't fight back," but realistically, sometimes you have to stand up for yourself, even if you still get beat up. So, I'm going to agree with you on this one.
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2011
Messages
13,654
#3
The school should take care of such bullies and punish them accordingly.

A kid only fights back when s/he is strong enough to revengefully overcome the other. I wouldn't encourage fighting back. What if someone gets terribly injured in the course of let-me-show-you-what-I-can-do-too?

If the school has strict moral principles on such matters - there would be no fighting at all or no bullying or at least it bullying would be a very rare case.
 
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
15,483
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
#4
The school should take care of such bullies and punish them accordingly.

A kid only fights back when s/he is strong enough to revengefully overcome the other. I wouldn't encourage fighting back. What if someone gets terribly injured in the course of let-me-show-you-what-I-can-do-too?

If the school has strict moral principles on such matters - there would be no fighting at all or no bullying or at least it bullying would be a very rare case.
Some kids are just bullies or show offs, some kids if you let them will stand up there and slap you silly and it happens everyday somewhere. So what should the kid do, just let them beat him or her down all the time. If that kid tells the teacher and this stuff still continues, that kid should not stand up there and take a beat down, or get his or her lunch money taken everyday. Elementary school bullies most of the times will still be one in high school. Now some kids are to scared to fight back. But to the ones who can fight back, do so. And them kids will say we can't do that garbage to Mike because Mike is not going to stand for it. And those bullies I don't care how old they are should be put out of the school and the authorities notified for retaliation purposes. This video incident happened in my old neighborhood of Upper Darby Pennsylvania
[video=youtube;UlG70eYCNOw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlG70eYCNOw[/video]
 
Joined
May 17, 2009
Messages
38,271
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
#5
nathan is allowed by me to defend himself with his mma training. if i find out he started it then i will be retraining him. but if he defended himself or others. then i will back him. here if the fight is on and the kids defend themselves they will both be punished.
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2011
Messages
13,654
#6
nathan is allowed by me to defend himself with his mma training. if i find out he started it then i will be retraining him. but if he defended himself or others. then i will back him. here if the fight is on and the kids defend themselves they will both be punished.
:toofunny
:toofunny
:toofunny
:toofunny
:toofunny
:toofunny
:toofunny
:toofunny
I knew it. I told myself you'd talk about mma on this matter. I can't stop laughing:lol


And your kids mma is useless when it gets overwhelmed by the opponents mma:chin

This is kind of saying: ..right from the time of John the Baptist...
LOL
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2011
Messages
13,654
#7
There are super bullies. They are always invincible and no mma can defeat them. Perhaps the kids need other fellow kids for a joint attack in order to eliminate such fighting heroes and bullies.

But who starts the first blow?:lol
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
10,028
Gender
Female
Christian
Yes
#8
Our kids know that if anyone strikes them, they can strike back. They'll get in trouble with the school, but not with us. If they strike the first blow, they will be in trouble with us.

As for school officials stopping bullying...sorry Classik, doesn't happen. My kids were bullied mercilessly all last year. I was down at the school I don't know how many times and nothing, but nothing happened. I was told by the school principle that my daughter should make sure she wasn't provoking things by sitting in the "wrong place" on the bus. It took a high-school girl slapping a 4th grade girl in the face before anything was finally done about the high school bullies on the bus.
 

Drew

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2005
Messages
13,961
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
#9
What does the New Testament tell us on the matter of dealing with evil?

To sum up, <SUP class=xref value='(K)'>(K)</SUP>all of you be harmonious, sympathetic, <SUP class=xref value='(L)'>(L)</SUP>brotherly, <SUP class=xref value='(M)'>(M)</SUP>kindhearted, and <SUP class=xref value='(N)'>(N)</SUP>humble in spirit; <SUP id=en-NASB-30434 class=versenum>9</SUP> <SUP class=xref value='(O)'>(O)</SUP>not returning evil for evil or <SUP class=xref value='(P)'>(P)</SUP>insult for insult, but <SUP class=footnote value='[e]'>[e]</SUP>giving a <SUP class=xref value='(Q)'>(Q)</SUP>blessing instead; for <SUP class=xref value='(R)'>(R)</SUP>you were called for the very purpose that you might <SUP class=xref value='(S)'>(S)</SUP>inherit a blessing.

I have said this before, and I will say it again. The way of the gospel is a hard way - it is not a path many can follow. I have no doubt you are all going to try to rationalize this away, as you always do when it comes to defending your "right" to use the enemy's own weapons to try to defeat him.

Surely, there are other options than damaging our children by teaching them that violence is an acceptable means of acting in the world.
 
Joined
Jun 4, 2011
Messages
206
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
#10
Our kids know that if anyone strikes them, they can strike back. They'll get in trouble with the school, but not with us. If they strike the first blow, they will be in trouble with us.

As for school officials stopping bullying...sorry Classik, doesn't happen. My kids were bullied mercilessly all last year. I was down at the school I don't know how many times and nothing, but nothing happened. I was told by the school principle that my daughter should make sure she wasn't provoking things by sitting in the "wrong place" on the bus. It took a high-school girl slapping a 4th grade girl in the face before anything was finally done about the high school bullies on the bus.
This is the way that my kids know as well. They will not get into trouble unless they start the fight.

My son actually defended his sister several years ago from a boy that kept picking on her. The kid would not stop calling her names, to the point that she would be crying on the bus ride home. So my son asked his little sister what was wrong and she told him. We received a phone call the next day from our son's teacher. He had run clear cross the the school ground to where his little sister was and the boy was yet again picking on her and tackled the boy. He would not get up off of him till the kid told my son that he would no longer pick on his little sister.

The teacher said that she had to stifle her smile because she was very proud of our son for standing up for his little sister. The principle however wanted to know how we would be dealing with the situation. We told her that we wouldn't be as we feel our son did the correct thing. He defended his little sister as all big brothers should do. She said that we had to do something. We told her that we will throw a party for him. Boy, did she get mad at us. We explained that they are taught to defend themselves, but to never start the fight and that my oldest son was to watch out for his younger siblings. If any of them ever start the fight, then we will discipline them.

That boy has never picked on my daughter again.
 
Joined
Jun 4, 2011
Messages
206
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
#11
What does the New Testament tell us on the matter of dealing with evil?

To sum up, <sup class="xref" value="(<a href=&quot;http://www.christianforums.net/#cen-NASB-30433K&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;>K</a>)">(K)</sup>all of you be harmonious, sympathetic, <sup class="xref" value="(<a href=&quot;http://www.christianforums.net/#cen-NASB-30433L&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;>L</a>)">(L)</sup>brotherly, <sup class="xref" value="(<a href=&quot;http://www.christianforums.net/#cen-NASB-30433M&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;>M</a>)">(M)</sup>kindhearted, and <sup class="xref" value="(<a href=&quot;http://www.christianforums.net/#cen-NASB-30433N&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;>N</a>)">(N)</sup>humble in spirit; <sup id="en-NASB-30434" class="versenum">9</sup> <sup class="xref" value="(<a href=&quot;http://www.christianforums.net/#cen-NASB-30434O&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;>O</a>)">(O)</sup>not returning evil for evil or <sup class="xref" value="(<a href=&quot;http://www.christianforums.net/#cen-NASB-30434P&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;>P</a>)">(P)</sup>insult for insult, but <sup class="footnote" value="[<a href=&quot;http://www.christianforums.net/#fen-NASB-30434e&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;>e</a>]">[e]</sup>giving a <sup class="xref" value="(<a href=&quot;http://www.christianforums.net/#cen-NASB-30434Q&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;>Q</a>)">(Q)</sup>blessing instead; for <sup class="xref" value="(<a href=&quot;http://www.christianforums.net/#cen-NASB-30434R&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;>R</a>)">(R)</sup>you were called for the very purpose that you might <sup class="xref" value="(<a href=&quot;http://www.christianforums.net/#cen-NASB-30434S&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;>S</a>)">(S)</sup>inherit a blessing.

I have said this before, and I will say it again. The way of the gospel is a hard way - it is not a path many can follow. I have no doubt you are all going to try to rationalize this away, as you always do when it comes to defending your "right" to use the enemy's own weapons to try to defeat him.

Surely, there are other options than damaging our children by teaching them that violence is an acceptable means of acting in the world.
That may work some of the time, but certainly not all the time.

I was picked on as a child, I was picked on unmercifully. I was hit, beaten, the whole nine yards. I did as I was told, to let the teacher or principle know what was going on. It just made things worse. As I got older I ignored it all, never letting the teachers or principle know what was going on, it still happened and got worse because as I got older, so did the other kids as well as getting stronger.

It wasn't until I decided one day not to take it anymore. I found the biggest bully and slammed him into a locker denting the locker in the process. I was suspended for my actions, but the bullying and teasing stopped.

Sometimes you really do need to just fight back. It's the only way to get your message across that it's not ok to do what they are doing to you.

My kids are not being taught that violence is always ok or acceptable, but sometimes you have to just defend yourself as a means to keep yourself from being harmed more and more.
 

Free

Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2003
Messages
13,677
Gender
Male
#12
What does the New Testament tell us on the matter of dealing with evil?

To sum up, <sup class="xref" value="(<a href=&quot;<a href=" http:="" www.christianforums.net="" #cen-nasb-30433k&quot;"="" target="_blank">http://www.christianforums.net/#cen-NASB-30433K" target="_blank">K)">(K)</sup>all of you be harmonious, sympathetic, <sup class="xref" value="(<a href=&quot;<a href=" http:="" www.christianforums.net="" #cen-nasb-30433l&quot;"="" target="_blank">http://www.christianforums.net/#cen-NASB-30433L" target="_blank">L)">(L)</sup>brotherly, <sup class="xref" value="(<a href=&quot;<a href=" http:="" www.christianforums.net="" #cen-nasb-30433m&quot;"="" target="_blank">http://www.christianforums.net/#cen-NASB-30433M" target="_blank">M)">(M)</sup>kindhearted, and <sup class="xref" value="(<a href=&quot;<a href=" http:="" www.christianforums.net="" #cen-nasb-30433n&quot;"="" target="_blank">http://www.christianforums.net/#cen-NASB-30433N" target="_blank">N)">(N)</sup>humble in spirit; <sup id="en-NASB-30434" class="versenum">9</sup> <sup class="xref" value="(<a href=&quot;<a href=" http:="" www.christianforums.net="" #cen-nasb-30434o&quot;"="" target="_blank">http://www.christianforums.net/#cen-NASB-30434O" target="_blank">O)">(O)</sup>not returning evil for evil or <sup class="xref" value="(<a href=&quot;<a href=" http:="" www.christianforums.net="" #cen-nasb-30434p&quot;"="" target="_blank">http://www.christianforums.net/#cen-NASB-30434P" target="_blank">P)">(P)</sup>insult for insult, but <sup class="footnote" value="[<a href=&quot;<a href=" http:="" www.christianforums.net="" #fen-nasb-30434e&quot;"="" target="_blank">http://www.christianforums.net/#fen-NASB-30434e" target="_blank">e]">[e]</sup>giving a <sup class="xref" value="(<a href=&quot;<a href=" http:="" www.christianforums.net="" #cen-nasb-30434q&quot;"="" target="_blank">http://www.christianforums.net/#cen-NASB-30434Q" target="_blank">Q)">(Q)</sup>blessing instead; for <sup class="xref" value="(<a href=&quot;<a href=" http:="" www.christianforums.net="" #cen-nasb-30434r&quot;"="" target="_blank">http://www.christianforums.net/#cen-NASB-30434R" target="_blank">R)">(R)</sup>you were called for the very purpose that you might <sup class="xref" value="(<a href=&quot;<a href=" http:="" www.christianforums.net="" #cen-nasb-30434s&quot;"="" target="_blank">http://www.christianforums.net/#cen-NASB-30434S" target="_blank">S)">(S)</sup>inherit a blessing.

I have said this before, and I will say it again. The way of the gospel is a hard way - it is not a path many can follow. I have no doubt you are all going to try to rationalize this away, as you always do when it comes to defending your "right" to use the enemy's own weapons to try to defeat him.

Surely, there are other options than damaging our children by teaching them that violence is an acceptable means of acting in the world.
"Do not return evil for evil" was the first thing that came to my mind. Nothing I can find states that returning evil for evil is okay some of the time.
 
Joined
Dec 14, 2010
Messages
76
#13
First,
My daughters school:

Any student that strikes another, gets in school suspension, 2nd incident expelled.
Does not matter who started it nor what the reason.
My daughters best friend punched an annoying girl, she knew it was wrong. But when another girl threatened and followed through with a punch she could only run or take the punch, if she struck back, bye bye school year. (she stood there and took with it out flinching. Hey, shes been kicked by a horse many times)

Bullying: One email took care of my daughter and a friends bully. So some schools do take bullying seriously.
 
Joined
Jun 4, 2011
Messages
206
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
#14
First,
My daughters school:

Any student that strikes another, gets in school suspension, 2nd incident expelled.
Does not matter who started it nor what the reason.
My daughters best friend punched an annoying girl, she knew it was wrong. But when another girl threatened and followed through with a punch she could only run or take the punch, if she struck back, bye bye school year. (she stood there and took with it out flinching. Hey, shes been kicked by a horse many times)

Bullying: One email took care of my daughter and a friends bully. So some schools do take bullying seriously.
Yes, some schools do, but other do not.

I would rather my children defend themselves so that they know that bullying towards them will not fly.
 

Drew

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2005
Messages
13,961
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
#15
That may work some of the time, but certainly not all the time.
Our goal is not to do what "works", but rather to follow the commandments we are given in the New Testament.

And both Jesus and other New Testament voices are clear - the gospel is the path of non-violence.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
10,028
Gender
Female
Christian
Yes
#16
It does depend a lot on the school. The school my kids went to last year, they have a reputation for bullying and now I know why...the school administration does nothing about it, until it gets way out of hand. Hopefully, they won't wind up with a kid either committing suicide or bringing a gun to school and killing others...but if they do they will have blood on their hands as well.

This year, it's different. One of my daughter's best friends turned on her (I don't know why girls do this, but they do) and started in. But, my daughter and a few other girls went to the school counselor, and it stopped. The girl even apologized to my daughter, but we're not exactly letting them go back to being friends...too much going on with that girl.

As far as not returning evil for evil...with the bullying both of my kids have endured, so far none of it has been physical, so there have been no physical responses necessary. For the verbal abuse as well as the undermining of friendships, we've helped them learn how to overcome without returning evil for evil. My son had to endure a lot of racism on the part of the 70+ year old bus driver at last year's school, and he's learned to handle that as well. It was hard, very hard, but they both learned from it.

But, I don't find any value in allowing kids to pummel and even seriously injure another child, and that child having to child stand there (or lie there if knocked down) "taking it". Once physical violence is introduced, it becomes a matter of self-defense, not "evil for evil"...unless one considers all self-defense evil and I know that there are some here who do consider all forms of self-defense evil. However, I don't, nor does my husband. I do not believe that the Scriptures teach us that self-defense, when one is being violently attacked is "evil". (And yes, I am quite familiar with Matthew 5:39).
 

Drew

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2005
Messages
13,961
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
#17
My son had to endure a lot of racism on the part of the 70+ year old bus driver at last year's school, and he's learned to handle that as well. It was hard, very hard, but they both learned from it.
Sounds good. Congratulations to both you and your son for enacting the gospel response.

But, I don't find any value in allowing kids to pummel and even seriously injure another child, and that child having to child stand there (or lie there if knocked down) "taking it". Once physical violence is introduced, it becomes a matter of self-defense, not "evil for evil"...unless one considers all self-defense evil....
The problem is that neither Jesus nor Paul give any "exceptions" to their pronouncements against the use of force.

And once you use force, you really are using the enemy's own weapons. And that strikes me as a problem. I am not guaranteeing that I would not defend myself if attacked, I am simply stating what I see as the very challenging gospel imperative - there are no exceptions to the pronouncements against the use of force. And, in fact, Jesus closes the door to our coming up with such exceptions - we are told to not resist evil and to love our enemies. And I cannot see how smacking an enemy in the face is an act of love.

And this should not surprise us, even if it deeply challenges us:

Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me
 
Joined
Jun 4, 2011
Messages
206
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
#18
Our goal is not to do what "works", but rather to follow the commandments we are given in the New Testament.

And both Jesus and other New Testament voices are clear - the gospel is the path of non-violence.
My kids will continue to be told to defend themselves.

As Handy mentioned in her post above this one, self defense is not returning evil for evil. it is defending yourself from someone else's aggressions.

I will not tell my kids to stand there and endure what I did as a child. No one should have to endure what i did as a child. So my kids will still be told to fight back and defend themselves.
 

for_his_glory

Light in darkness
Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
8,494
Gender
Female
Christian
Yes
#19
I use to get into a lot of fights in school and when a girl actually beats up a boy and throws him over a bus seat you get respect and others never pick on you again, but is that the right way, probably not, but I won many a battle standing up for myself or being a proxy for someone else who was getting picked on.

My parents let us fight our own childhood battles as one minute you are friends and then the next mortal enemies, but that was back in the late 60's and early 70's. Now a days you have kids pulling knives and guns on each other in the play ground with the possibility of someone getting killed and nothing is done until someone gets hurt or dies, because most adults are in fear of getting stabbed or shot themselves. If you have ever seen the show on TV Scared Straight this is what some kids need when others can not control their actions. Sitting in a principles office never did a thing for me as when I was younger I had no respect for outside authority. Kids today are so different then we were at their age and being scared straight can change some kids.

On another note if all the kids banned together in the playground and stood up to the bully chances are they would back down knowing they have been defeated. Saw that on Little House On The Prairie.
 

Mike

Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Mar 13, 2010
Messages
15,162
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
#20
Our goal is not to do what "works", but rather to follow the commandments we are given in the New Testament.

And both Jesus and other New Testament voices are clear - the gospel is the path of non-violence.
Drew, we have gone round and round on this, and I have defended our right to defend against violence with necessary violence, but I have to admit that I have been studying this with a different POV lately. Really, when an argument for a physical response is given biblically, the only verses used are tacit references. We're told to carry a sword, but not what to use it for. I've also sited that Jesus never tells the military leader to lay down his sword. (I'm on my phone now, so I'm not going to reference the scripture.)

In contrast, we have very pointed directives by Christ to not return evil with evil, violence with violence. It's getting harder and harder to ignore the overwhelming scripture that tells us to never return the violence. :shrug

I will say that defending ourselves without using violence appears to be scriptural, but I'm starting to believe that a return response not something we should be about. In this case, we probably should counsel our children to put God above their own inclination to "put them in their place". Ultimately, the Victory is being true to the Lord, more so than to justify our violent nature.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.