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Learning from other religions

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#81
Jim - is that a real answer??

Of course we can offend God!!! The Bible is littered with people, nations and behaviours that offend God.
And what have you learned from the people, nations, and behaviors that offend God? That their offense merits judgment. These bad examples also include other religions, thus we learn from bad religions what not to do.
 
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#83
And what have you learned from the people, nations, and behaviors that offend God? That their offense merits judgment. These bad examples also include other religions, thus we learn from bad religions what not to do.
Why do we need to learn from other religions what not to do, when we have the Bible that tells us what we OUGHT to do?
 
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#84
God is not a human being with human passions.
God is unchanging. Becoming angry or offended is a change.
The language describing God's wrath and anger and jealousy etc. is, I believe, used so that we human beings can relate to what is being taught.
It is my understanding that all the "wrathful" actions taken by God are didactic; they are done that we might learn that our actions, which brought about the wrath of God, as self destructive. It is similar to when a parent tells his young child not to play in the street. After a few warnings, if the child continues to disobey the parents command, the parent may spank the child. In that way, the child will relate disobedience and the self-destructive behavior with pain. The child will perceive the parent as being angry with him.

So also, God, from time to time, has "spanked" individuals and even all of mankind in order that they, or others who observe or learn of the "spanking" (the flood story is essentially universal), would learn not to disobey by behaving in a self-destructive manner. The objective of the wrath is than people do not end up in hell just as the objective of the child's spanking was that he not be killed by getting run over by a truck.

In both cases, the "wrathful" action taken was an act of love having the objective of preserving the life of the subject of the wrath.

Anyway, that's the way I see it.

iakov the fool
Jim,

I do understand what you're saying and may I respectfully disagree brother. I think we can and do offend God. God isn't some robot void of emotion. Jesus being God of very God displayed many emotions, so to think of the Father not being offended by anything we do is to err IMHO. If we are to love God absolutely with everything we have, we have to understand His heart breaks when we are disobedient, this isn't just a learning experience for us, it's a genuine hurt that we have caused Him who first loved us.

“‘Be angry, and do not sin’: do not let the sun go down on your wrath, nor give place to the devil. Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need. Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.” Ephesians 4:26-
 
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#86
You might have a point, if everyone always agreed on what their Bibles tell us.
Thank you for the respectful, kind answer back. I apologise if my previous posts to you were abrupt. And you're right, we all have different interpretations of the Bible, but I think we can't go far wrong sticking with it, and not venturing elsewhere for answers.

Have a good day Sinthesis. God bless.
 
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#88
Tough question. On an intellectual level you can learn anywhere, from anything and from anyone. It depends on where you personally draw the line. I was encouraged to study out other faith's by my Mentors, as Christians we're called to be truth seekers. It's not until we put things into practice that we are able to see the truth in what Jesus taught, as upside down as it may seem in comparison to the world's sexually charged attitudes to life. I wouldn't worship other God's but I don't see an issue with researching customs, history and finding out about where people get their views from.
 
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#89
we have to understand His heart breaks when we are disobedient
Being heart-broken and being offended are two very different things.
Why would God be offended if He already knows everything we will do for all of our earthly lives?
When I see someone about to do something stupid, hurtful, or evil, I can decide not to be offended by their failure. How much more can God choose not to be offended!
Jesus said not to take offense; but, rather, "... Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven;" (Mat 5:44-45a RSV) and "Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. To him who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also;..." (Luk 6:27-29a RSV)
Jesus did not even take offense at the people who were crucifying Him and mocking Him. His response was, "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." (Luk 23:34 RSV)

Jesus did not take offense.
Jesus is God.
 
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#90
Being heart-broken and being offended are two very different things.
Why would God be offended if He already knows everything we will do for all of our earthly lives?
When I see someone about to do something stupid, hurtful, or evil, I can decide not to be offended by their failure. How much more can God choose not to be offended!
Jesus said not to take offense; but, rather, "... Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven;" (Mat 5:44-45a RSV) and "Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. To him who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also;..." (Luk 6:27-29a RSV)
Jesus did not even take offense at the people who were crucifying Him and mocking Him. His response was, "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." (Luk 23:34 RSV)

Jesus did not take offense.
Jesus is God.
It would be difficult to not be offended if someone does something stupid, hurtful, or evil in your name.
 
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#91
It would be difficult to not be offended if someone does something stupid, hurtful, or evil in your name.
Most sin is not done "in God's name." We don't say, for example, "No, that dress doesn't make your butt look big in Jesus' name."
But all of mankind, saved or not, sin which is to fall short of the glory of God in Whose image and likeness we were created and of Whom we are created to be living icons.
The only time that Jesus showed anger was when dealing with those who were supposed to represent God and lead people in holiness (Pharisees and Sadducees) but were opposing Him (Mat 22:18; 23:13-33) and, perhaps, when He drove the peddlers out of the temple courts. (Mat 21:12-13)
In those cases, the people Jesus rebuked were not falling short of the glory for which they were created but were intentionally perverting the gift which God had given for their salvation with the result that people were led to turn away from God by the behavior of those corrupt leaders. Today people are turned away from the Gospel today by preachers who corrupt God's word for their own gain by teaching godliness as a means of gain (1Ti 6:5, "prosperity gospel") and that tithing is a necessary part of Christianity. (It boils down to the lie that if the members of the congregation, or the religious super star's followers, will tithe to the preacher, God will make them healthy and wealthy and if they don't get healthy and wealthy it's because they have sin in their lives of don't have enough faith.)
I imagine that garbage offends Jesus.
 
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#92
I find it amazing that so many that "Discuss" Bible, Know so little of what they are talking about.
I do not mean to offend any one here, Just saying STOP and think.
We teach a person is saved by God's Grace, He required it, He Planned it, He taught it, and JEsus His Son came to fulfill it. We are saved when God's Grace becomes real in our heart, that is the meaning of Faith. There is NOTHING we can do to deserve, Earn, be worthy of, or Gain God's Grace, It is A GIFT FROM GOD! All people of all time are saved by GRACE. IT is not about how good of true or honest a person is, Saved is in obedience to God's Gift of Grace we by Faith accept the Gift..
Here is where there is a Problem!! A PERSON Cannot do anything to deserve, Earn, be worthy of, or Gain a place in HELL. A person goes to Hell for ignoring God's Gift. What we call SIN is only the symptoms of the "natural man living for self without God. PS 14:1
I will go farther to say there MUST BE Symptoms of bring a Christian. There are no works in BEING SAVED, BUT when you get there there are things THAT MUST BE DONE!! Fellowship with God in prayer and Bible study, Attend Church, Fellow ship with Christian brothers ans sisters for growth and support. PRAYER. Live an example that OTHERS CAN SEE JESUS IN YOUR LIFE. Ask yourself if others can see "CHRISTIAN LIFE IN ME, would they want any part of what they see.

WE spend so much time discussing and arguing about the SYMPTOMS we miss the point.
HOW MUCH TIME DO I SPEND OBEYING GOD.
 
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#93
What we call SIN is only the symptoms of the "natural man living for self without God. PS 14:1
Psa 14:1 The fool says in his heart, There is no God." They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none that does good.
That does not describe the "natural man." That describes "fallen man."

Sin is "falling short of the glory of God" (Rom 3:23); it is failing to be a perfect, living icon of God as we were created to be. Sin is failing to act as God acts in perfect love toward all of creation at all times and in all circumstances.

Natural man is described at Gen 1:27 (RSV) So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. and at verse 31 "And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good." Natural man is defined by being the image and likeness of God, not a sinner. Sinfulness is a distortion of God's highest creation, man.
There are no works in BEING SAVED, BUT when you get there there are things THAT MUST BE DONE!! Fellowship with God in prayer and Bible study, Attend Church, Fellow ship with Christian brothers ans sisters for growth and support.
When Jesus comes again and separates the blessed from the cursed (Mat 25:31-46) none of those things will be used as evidence of who is and is not saved. The evidence by which Jesus will determine each person's eternal condition will be what they did or did not do. (I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.) (vs 35 & 36 RSV)

Those who inherit the kingdom are those who do the "good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." (Eph 2:10 RSV)

I believe you are 100% correct to say, "There is NOTHING we can do to deserve, Earn, be worthy of, or Gain God's Grace, It is A GIFT FROM GOD! All people of all time are saved by GRACE."
It is also true that "...a man is justified by works and not by faith alone
." (Jas 2:24 RSV) and "For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead."
(2:26)

If we are God's faithful servants then we must do the works which God has given us to do. Otherwise, we are unfaithful servants who will be cast into hell.
WE spend so much time discussing and arguing about the SYMPTOMS we miss the point. HOW MUCH TIME DO I SPEND OBEYING GOD.
AMEN!!!

iakov the fool
 
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#96
...a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." (Jas 2:24 RSV) and "For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead."
(2:26)

If we are God's faithful servants then we must do the works which God has given us to do. Otherwise, we are unfaithful servants who will be cast into hell.
Dead faith is simply unproductive faith. It is still saving faith.

Works justify us before men

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, A MAN may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. (...) Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only

James 2 is about justification before men and unproductive faith

Works do not justify us before God

Romans 4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; BUT NOT BEFORE GOD. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. (Js 2:23) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.


Faith without works
Faith of demons
lordship heresy
 
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#97
Dead faith is simply unproductive faith. It is still saving faith.
That is absurdly illogical and unscriptural.
Works justify us before men
Not one person who wrote any of the scriptures gave a hoot about being justified "before men." The concept of being justified in the Bible is ALWAYS and WITHOUT EXCEPTION with reference to one's standing in God's eyes, not in any man's eyes.
"Justified before men" is a good example to the length that some people will go to make scripture null and void and replace God's word with their own words. Apparently it has wide accepted in pop-Christianity as I have seen that same ridiculous statement several times before.
James specifically rejects as sinful any action to gain favor in the opinion of men. (James 2:1-9)
Works do not justify us before God
Jas 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
If that is what your church is teaching you then find another church that teaches the truth.
 
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#98
That is absurdly illogical and unscriptural.

Not one person who wrote any of the scriptures gave a hoot about being justified "before men." The concept of being justified in the Bible is ALWAYS and WITHOUT EXCEPTION with reference to one's standing in God's eyes, not in any man's eyes.
"Justified before men" is a good example to the length that some people will go to make scripture null and void and replace God's word with their own words. Apparently it has wide accepted in pop-Christianity as I have seen that same ridiculous statement several times before.
James specifically rejects as sinful any action to gain favor in the opinion of men. (James 2:1-9)

Jas 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
If that is what your church is teaching you then find another church that teaches the truth.
See, I don't go to "church" for bible truth. I go to the bible for bible truth. Clearly you don't like that seeing you brushed everything off and beat around the bush. Sorry to trigger you with scriptural evidence.

Apparently it has wide accepted in pop-Christianity
Pop-christianity teaches your works-salvation, anti-christ doctrine, seeing that pop-christianity is tainted mostly by the false dichotomy/Hegelian dialectic of Arminianism and Calvinism, and also tainted by Lordship Salvation heresy. You might as well be a roman catholic. Or are you? I can't tell seeing that you're up their alley.

As the scriptures say We are not as many which corrupt the word of God. Many teach works salvation.

Works will never save you. Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Repent and believe the gospel. Change your mind and accept the good news.


....A MAN (not God) may say... James 2:18 KJV

 
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#99
Works will never save you.
That is correct.
I never said they would.
GOD saves, not man and not man's works.

BUT -- neither will anyone enter the Kingdom of God who refuses/declines/ neglects to do the good works which God created beforehand for which he was created in Christ Jesus to walk in them. (Eph 2:10) "To walk in them" means to make that their manner of living; doing good works.

But you teach people to ignore God's will that they make their way of life according to HIS purposes.

Jesus also commanded His followers to "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven." (Mat 5:16 NKJV) But you teach people to ignore Jesus' command.

If someone does not obey the Lord, as you teach that it is unnecessary, then his failure to obey is prima facie evidence that Jesus is NOT his Lord. (Luk 6:46)

Jesus said at John 5:28-29 (NKJV)
… the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth
—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.



Paul said at Ro 6:2-10(God) will render to each one according to his deeds; eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;
but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.



Jesus specifically said that, when He returned to judge mankind, He would determine whether each person inherited the kingdom or went to hell depending on whether or not they did works of mercy. (Mat 25:31-46)
Mat 25:46 (NKJV) "And these (who did NOT do acts of mercy) will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous (those who DID acts of mercy) into eternal life.”

So, over and over throughout the New Testament, the word of God tells us to do good works and It also tells us that without those good works a self-described "believer" will be told "Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me"
(Mat 25: 41-43 NKJV)

And that's what your pop-Christianity teaching promotes; filling hell with people who were deceived by your "no works necessary" teaching.
 
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