Looking for a Stockbroker who markets Kingdom directed investments.

Discussion in 'Business Discussions & Plugs' started by SportFit Bill, Nov 13, 2016.

  1. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Member

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    And of course you can prove your insinuation that Timothy Funds are not biblically responsible, correct?....or are you simply spouting your opinion without evidence?.......I am waiting to read your evidence. You also have evidence that his support of these funds is because "his advice is scarcely disinterested'? Something tells me you have nothing but let's see.......

    Do you have evidence that claim has ever been made or again are you simply making accusations without any evidence? My understanding is that this forum frowns upon that........
    Hmmmm, wonder why you have not bothered to mention Mission Pre-Born?......Maybe because it does not fit your leftist narrative?
     
  2. Allen Wynne

    Allen Wynne Member

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    Actually, the birth of the word "liberal" could be applied to Jesus and his ministry.
    When someone is trying to make a spiritual statement, and you call him a "leftist", now that is very worldly of you.
    But, to no surprise, your name is written all over probably every political thread on this forum.
     
  3. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Member

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    Your point?......I ask since you have not addressed a single question or position that I have posted in this thread........BTW do you have a problem with my
    If so, please elaborate......
    Actually he was not making a 'spiritual' statement; he was accusing/insinuating/criticizing a fellow Christian without offering one shred of evidence to support his position.
     
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  4. Allen Wynne

    Allen Wynne Member

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    Now you are doing the accusing/insinuating/criticizing.
    Do you defend yourself like this all the time?
    Is there Scripture you use to act this way?
     
  5. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Member

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    Please point that out for me.....
    Did not realize I was 'defending' myself....perhaps you can point that out also.....
     
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  6. Allen Wynne

    Allen Wynne Member

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    Do you want to know something?
    I think that you don't like me.
     
  7. Jim Parker

    Jim Parker Member

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    Maybe look into:
    https://christianinvestors.org/inve...MI0qmU0-WW1wIV0LXACh2EwA3NEAAYAyAAEgKb__D_BwE

    httphttps://www.kiplinger.com/article/investing...religion-funds-for-faith-based-investors.html

    http://www.gracelegacycapital.com/faith-based-investing/

    I don't have any personal experience with any of them. I just googled "faith based investments".
     
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  8. Runner

    Runner Member

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    Wow, you seem to have an intense emotional involvement in this thread. Go to the Timothy Funds website. They outline their philosophy of "Biblically responsible" investing. It is precisely as I have stated. They have a very narrow concept of what "Biblically responsible" means. Look at their "Screens" page - it will describe the filters they use to determine "Biblical responsibility" (which are fine as far as they go, which is not much beyond a Vacation Bible School understanding of what it means to be Biblically responsible).

    By their curious definition, their investments are indeed "Biblically responsible." I did not suggest they were not. I suggested that investing in the stock market is inherently un-Biblical, the phrase "Biblically responsible investing" is an oxymoron, and Timothy Funds' definition of "Biblically responsible" is wholly inadequate.

    Evidence that Dan Celia's relentless promotion of these folks is not disinterested? They are one of his primary sponsors. They are "the only family of investment funds with which [he] has ever felt spiritually yoked," whatever that may mean.

    Speaking of spouting, have you ever LISTENED to Dan Celia or visited the Timothy Funds website? Or are you perhaps one of Dan's faithful spiritual "partners" (that's what you get to call yourself if you "donate" a mere $85 a year), who worshipfully "blesses" his "ministry" because you have earned 3.92% on your investments rather than the 2.64% you were earning before God brought him into your life?

    Evidence to support the statement, "Ergo, God supposedly smiles upon your shekels when you place them with these funds"? I need evidence to make such a statement? The entire philosophy of "Biblically responsible investing" is that it is "pleasing to God." Listen to Dan Celia for a mere week. I guarantee you, you will hear the phrase "pleasing to God" at least 100 times in reference to "Biblically responsible investing."

    Ah, the cat's out of the bag. You are one of Dan's faithful listeners. Mission Pre-Born is another of his sponsors. It sounds like a very worthwhile anti-abortion ministry. A donation is the kind of "investment" God might well smile upon. What does it have to do with the topic of this thread? Why would I have mentioned it or not mentioned it? Your logic completely escapes me.

    My "leftist narrative"? Clearly, you are unfamiliar with the bulk of my posts. Talk about spouting ... talk about ignoring evidence ... have you considered reducing your intake of caffeine, Mr. RESIST RESIST RESIST PROGRESSIVE LIBERALISM?
     
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  9. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Member

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    I asked you 2 questions, can you do the courtesy of replying to them?.....I guess this makes 3 questions.....
     
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  10. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Member

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    Ok, so it is just your opinion unsupported by evidence......you could have just said so and saved yourself some typing.....
    So are you suggesting that investing in companies that support say planned parenthood is just as 'pleasing to God' as investing in those that don't? As I pointed out in the parable of the talents there seems to be no problem in increasing wealth by investing unless you are confusing investing and greed? And once more I ask for evidence that anyone has claimed the bolded above. You seem to be conflating your statement with 'pleasing to God' (which happens to be a biblical phrase' which is probably why he uses it).
    Hmmmmm, I am getting the impression you have a person gripe against him and his program......
     
  11. Allen Wynne

    Allen Wynne Member

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    NO!
    NO!
    NO!
     
  12. Allen Wynne

    Allen Wynne Member

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    I like what you say here.
    "Support planned parenthood".
    What is the difference if any?
    How many companies are you invested in?
    How many of the owners of these companies use their money to support things that are contrary to the teachings to us by God?
    You don't know and you could never know.
    The truth is you are investing in the world.
    Wrong attitude.
    Promoting such a thing is worldly.
    How does that fit in with your Christianity?
    I'm not judging you, I'm trying to get you to take a good look at what you are saying here.
     
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  13. Runner

    Runner Member

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    Your statements in this vein are not even making sense. If this isn't apparent to you, it's very difficult to have anything resembling a discussion. My "evidence" is Timothy Funds' own website. Go look at it. Why is it my job to reproduce the website here to satisfy your demand for evidence? This "opinion unsupported by evidence" ploy appears to be a game you enjoy playing across the forums. I have no obligation to play it, particularly in circumstances where it doesn't even make sense.

    I'm not suggesting that investing in either one is "pleasing to God." Since I'm opposed to abortion, I'm suggesting that donating to the anti-abortion cause might be pleasing to God (but other Christians would disagree). The Parable of the Talents has nothing to do with investing money, although it is a capitalist favorite for obvious reasons. Those who think it is about investing money are the ones who are really confused.

    Since you seem to think you're making some significant point that is completely lost on me, you'll have to explain to those who might be interested what difference you're seeing between my statement to the effect that "God supposedly smiles upon your shekels when you place them with a fund that advertises Biblically responsible investing" and the statement (which you seemingly believe requires no evidence) that "Investing with a fund that advertises Biblically responsible investing is pleasing to God."

    Is the "Hmmmmm" meant to suggest some deep dark secret hidden agenda? Dan Celia happens to be the "ministry" of this type with which I'm most familiar. I had never heard of "Biblically responsible investing" until I began listening. I listened regularly for quite some time until it became nauseating. I realized what a complete sham it is, preying upon the gullible and unsophisticated. It's the Prosperity Gospel in sheep's clothing. It's no more a "ministry" than Amazon or Walmart are "ministries," but at least Amazon and Walmart don't pretend they are. Yeah, I have a gripe: Like much of what passes for Christianity in America, I think it's basically Satanic.
     
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  14. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Member

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    Do you have your money in a bank or credit union? Are you certain they don't loan to planned parenthood, the neighborhood strip club/porn shop or any other business or person that is using YOUR money in a way that is contrary to what God wants us to do? Think about it.......
    At least trying to avoid those things is better than not trying at all......
     
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  15. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Member

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    I appreciate your lack of effort in answering serious questions.....I think we are done.......
     
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  16. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Member

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    I ask you for evidence, you say go look at Timothy website, I have.......I am asking you for evidence......post your evidence here. Until then it is opinion unsupported by evidence......can't call it anything else.
    You need to go back and read it again, it is obvious you did not grasp what I was saying.......
    Rather than paraphrase (incorrectly IMO) Why not get direct quotes from the websites instead of twisting what they say in order to make a point. That would be the honest thing to do. Otherwise you are misrepresenting what they say which is a no-no according the ToS.
    Then you most certainly did not grasp what he is talking about.....preaching prosperity gospel......LOLOLOLOL......no wonder I did not understand what the heck your problem was......Sorry, but the prosperity gospel does not make you wait 8-10 years in order to collect.......which is Dan's stated timeline for his investments. Many times Dan has responded to questions from people wanting to know what to invest in short term (3-5 years in his opinion). He usually tells them not to listen to his recommendations because they are geared to 8-10 years.
    Yep, that is what Satan does: Turns Christians against Christians.......he is at his happiest when he can get that to happen......
     
  17. Runner

    Runner Member

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    Since you're apparently obsessed with having the last word, I will make this my final post on this thread, and you may then add your obligatory Last Word, to which I promise not to add a jot or tittle.

    1. My original post did not even mention the Timothy Funds. I specifically did not mention them because I didn't want to give them the publicity. My flippant statement, "Ergo, God supposedly smiles upon your shekels if you place them with these funds" was, therefore, not represented as a promise of the Timothy Funds (or Dan Celia).

    My flippant statement was my characterization - entirely accurate, I believe - of what all those who promote "Biblically responsible investing" implicitly promise: By investing in their version of a "Biblically responsible" manner, you will demonstrate that you are a more faithful Christian than those who do not invest in a "Biblically responsible" manner, and God will be happier with you than with those who don't.

    I was not suggesting they promise that God will bless you with a higher interest rate. This would violate SEC rules and be a pretty shaky promise anyway since the "Biblically responsible" funds are typically just average performers.

    You introduced the Timothy Funds into the thread. If you are such a fan, provide your "evidence" that my generalization is not accurate.

    My position is that "Biblically responsible investing" is just a shtick, a way for a certain species of financial planner and a certain species of investment house to tap into the lucrative Christian market. There is no such thing as "Biblically responsible investing" - and if there were, it would be a poor way to invest because a truly Biblically responsible company would be likely to go bankrupt in six months.

    There will always be gullible Christians who fall for a shtick such as this. They feel better about themselves, and folks like Dan Celia and Timothy Funds get rich. This might be harmless if the "Biblically responsible" funds were consistently top performers, as they might be if they were actually blessed by God, but they aren't.

    My larger point, that you seem to miss. was effectively made in a blog that I happened upon. The author was making the point that, at that time, Kennametal was one of Timothy Funds' top ten investments. He wrote:

    Kennametal produces a variety of tungsten alloy and tungsten carbide armor piercing penetrators for the U.S. Government and prime contractors. The penetrators are utilized in small and medium caliber ammunition. The fund is upset about pretend violence in a video game and one of their top ten investments is in a company making real bullets. You can't make this stuff up. I guess it is OK to support a company which enables the killing of real people, but it would be morally reprehensible to support a company which enables the killing of animated people.
    2. Dan Celia does indeed tell callers that his stock picks are geared to those with an 8-10 year time horizon. (This is particularly effective with callers who complain, "I bought those stocks you recommended two years ago, and they're now down 48%.") Timothy Funds has such funds. It also has short-term funds and everything in-between. Dan pushes all callers who do not wish to manage their own investments toward Timothy Funds, on the theory that they will be "good stewards" of the money with which God has "blessed" them if they engage in "Biblically responsible investing," which is "pleasing to God."

    You can LOLOLOLOL all you want, but there is a clear suggestion that God and one's financial well-being are entwined in a way that I, at least, believe is antithetical to the real Christian message. It's frankly impossible for me to believe that one can have a genuine Christian faith and still be as obsessed with money as Dan Celia and many of his callers are. To hearken back to my post #59, I believe that Money is the real God of these folks' world. This is typical of American Christianity, where Jesus' actual message is perverted into the Capitalist Manifesto (not to mention the entire right-wing political agenda) and being a Christian requires little more than Living the Way I Want to Live Anyway (as long as I pay lip service to Christian values through things like "Biblically responsible investing").

    Who had any idea the "Business Discussions & Plugs" forum, which I did not realize until now even existed, could be so ... er ... entertaining?
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
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  18. wondering

    wondering Member

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    Just to say that I do agree with your LOL paragraph.
    Although I do believe one should do the best one can with their money,,, I also believe obsession with same could become a person's god.

    I know both types personally, as I'm sure we all do.
    This refers to jesus' teaching on the rich getting to heaven.
     
  19. jasonc

    jasonc Member

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    Christian:
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    Vote trump,personal experience. The rich here watch the stocks intently.of it drops, jobs are cut,happened to my wife .

    Just saying ,voting republican will if you want to be educated have learning the market workings. I had to inquire a few times.

    Why are govt pensions bad is such a case
     
  20. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Member

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    Yes I did. I was at least willing to use the name of the fund instead of criticizing them obliquely fully knowledgeable that Timothy Fund is the only fund he talks about by name and is a sponsor of his program.....Timothy Fund is not a curse word you know....you won't get a warning for using it.:biggrin
    Once more, you are twisting words in order to help make your position. The least you can do is use actual quotes so people can read what they really say instead of depending on your slanted POV.
    Nice strawman.....you could have claimed that I am not biblically responsible because I own a handgun. Your "evidence" is simply someone elses opinion. Luke 22:36.
    I jumped into this conversation not because I am a diehard believer in what he says (though I agree with Dan to avoid investing in areas where there is clear disapproval from God; for instance I would not invest in a strip joint) but because you were criticizing a fellow Christian for trying to help others to find investments that tries to follow biblical principals in dealing with money. Now if you had wanted to discuss what 'biblically responible investing' means without criticizing people who try to practice it as they understand it, we would be having an entirely different conversation.

    :thumbsup
     

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